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Just funny.
I agree it is a "rip" ( replace with whatever word you like).
But it also bugs me the poeple who go.
"Omg It's Blue. He frikin ripped 2a so bad"
"That line is the same size as in this guys site"
So I leave you with a message.
If you can't say anything nice. Don't say it at all!
If you learn to look, then you look to learn.
design for some people is a way of life.. they live and breath it. In this perticular field, because of the amount of technology and advice at the tips of our fingers; this allows for exposure of all various levels. One of the major problems is that this field of work is being flooded with people who call themselves 'designers' who have a slight grasp of the programing knowledge and abilities to produce a website. Tho, without the talent of a real designer the application cannot be anything more than code snipplets on a piece of paper. I think that one would find that some of the 'stars', as aversion called them, have some background in other fields of multimedia design, not just web design. Despite the fact that FK, UltraShock, WH, and many other forums receive daily visits from people who want todo this, but lack the skills and talent.
when a person knowingly copys of duplicates another's piece of work, then it is just as stealing from that same person's pockets. That website is an example of someone taking another's style and complete design method, and plainly skinning it -- to suit their own needs. He/She completeley skipped the design process because they found someone else's to use.
im not saying that the person who created this website is a bad person or that they need to be punished. someone created this for a reason. Maby they hope to make some money, or whatever -- it just isn't fair to those who spend countless hours in class or at home learning the skills to design something as nice as 2a's website. The creator of this site tried to take that away from them.
Ultimately, anyone can do anything that they please todo with themselves.. if they wish to post it here, they can.. no one will stop them.
The fact that this field of design is being flooded many uneducated newbs, that the professional, hard working designers don't like to hang around for all the newbs's crap. Their bickering and looking at their attempts to design something halfway desent.. or atleast eye pleasing. Another problem is that most of them won't take advice.. and any negative comments, they seem to retract back into their hole while defending themselves.
That is the reason why you will NEVER see me posting in the site check forum.. and is also the reason why i left for like 5 months.. i was sick of all the crap that i was putting up with.
The reason why we have such a problem with copying is because the internet is accessable to soo many viewers and in a splint second, thousands have seen your work. And the newbs, who don't know better and because their lack of knowledge, cling to that work and become consumed by it.. thus they create something like this... the internet is good and evil all at the same time.. we have access to thousand's of peoples ideas and opinions.. but one of the worst places to look for creativity is the INTERNET. Those who have a tendency to always to their own way have a much better chance of succeding.
Im going to stop know, its damn late and i've probably repeated myself about 3 times... LOL :)
edit: im not going to deny that their is many elements in that website that are of their own, they .. of course are modifications and altreations of the orig 2a site.. but netherless they are original.. now only if the original stuff outweighed the copyed --
Insignificant individual explains why trend occurs among kids:
I don't believe there is much to reverse the trend. Normal kids of my age are easily influenced by what they see. The question is, in my perspective, is why exactly does this so called "ripping" occur? Perhaps it is because young people seem to be amazed by these "cool" websites. For example, they look at 2Advanced, and think to themselves:
"Wow. That looks really cool. I want to make a website just as cool as that. Maybe I might even make some money."
The thing is, these people aren't real designers. They're just out there, frantically trying to create websites that they and their friends believe are cool. What they do not realize however is that creating "cool" websites has nothing to do with designing. These people do not realize web design to be an art. Basically, they go on the internet, find some famous site that has been proven effective in getting attention. Then they just use the ideas to fuel work that they believe is their own. Their final thought: "Yes! I've created something just like that cool site I saw the other day! Now I've got a cool site too, and I'm gonna be famous!"
Well, yes. That seems to be the truth. I'm not sure that my opinion counts or not... but....
I don't see this "idea stealing" among my classmates at my current high school (it's a sci/tech magnet school), but I used to see it a lot at other high schools. Alot of people got caught up in it. I suppose this trend isn't going to stop among young people. It is sometimes sad to believe that we kids do not learn. Or maybe it's just that the majority of us have not been exposed to the world as much as we need to.
When these people grow up, they still hold the same beliefs...
Regards,
Thomas H
Freshmen Webmaster of TJHSST2006
Copyright infringement? You have got to be kidding me. If this was Coca-Cola they wouldn't do ANYTHING because it's not illegal to take a layout (and this is pretty standard, quite frankly) or create similar preloaders.
If you're saying it's a rip based on the hi-tech "look", then I guess the Attik should be suing 2Advanced right about now along with about a hundred other companies.
Really, this "be original or die" attitude is what is amateurish here, not the people defending the guy. First thing you're taught in school is that everybody steals everything. Trends are quickly stolen and exploited. In an environment where trends are what clients want, of course it is acceptable to follow trends.
It's a well-made site that's going to impress a lot of people and turn a lot of people off. For me, it's typical of a lot of Flash sites which are hard to navigate and impossible to see (tiny images and type). Especially for portfolio sites, it makes sense to show larger views of pieces (even if they are just "thumbs")...
maby, that they want to create something that they belive is sooo kewl and they want attention that it resorts to copying.. its all about wanting to be recognized.. say that they did something neat. eh.. wonder why painters and illustrators don't have problems like web designers do..Quote:
Originally posted by Veniogenesis
Insignificant individual explains why trend occurs among kids:
I don't believe there is much to reverse the trend. Normal kids of my age are easily influenced by what they see. The question is, in my perspective, is why exactly does this so called "ripping" occur? Perhaps it is because young people seem to be amazed by these "cool" websites. For example, they look at 2Advanced, and think to themselves:
"Wow. That looks really cool. I want to make a website just as cool as that. Maybe I might even make some money."
The thing is, these people aren't real designers. They're just out there, frantically trying to create websites that they and their friends believe are cool. What they do not realize however is that creating "cool" websites has nothing to do with designing. These people do not realize web design to be an art. Basically, they go on the internet, find some famous site that has been proven effective in getting attention. Then they just use the ideas to fuel work that they believe is their own. Their final thought: "Yes! I've created something just like that cool site I saw the other day! Now I've got a cool site too, and I'm gonna be famous!"
Well, yes. That seems to be the truth. I'm not sure that my opinion counts or not... but....
I don't see this "idea stealing" among my classmates at my current high school (it's a sci/tech magnet school), but I used to see it a lot at other high schools. Alot of people got caught up in it. I suppose this trend isn't going to stop among young people. It is sometimes sad to believe that we kids do not learn. Or maybe it's just that the majority of us have not been exposed to the world as much as we need to.
When these people grow up, they still hold the same beliefs...
Regards,
Thomas H
Freshmen Webmaster of TJHSST2006
I agree with you here. But in this case, we can agree that it goes a bit further, no?Quote:
Originally posted by Nionicle
But it also bugs me the poeple who go.
"Omg It's Blue. He frikin ripped 2a so bad"
"That line is the same size as in this guys site"
Let me say this..my comments ..i tried to make General comments...not specifically about THIS one site except where I needed to. This is mainly about all the sites like it that creep up in our/my e-mail box every day... I get pixelranger rips every week...there are 10x as many 2A rips that flood thru every day. People say we should be flattered..but I disagree.
This phenomenon of quickly copying things should not be tolerated. The more it is..the more it will happen. This is MORE than about 2A..its more than about me.
Nionicle.... The same people who are quick to jump to conclusions about using the color blue and 2a..that seem to bug you....are the SAME junior members who are rampantly running around being Inspired. If you are tired of those comparisons..then you should speak to that crowd.
I'm sorry ..but in my opinion..i would rather be like Simon on "Americon Idol" I'm gonna call it like I see it and be bluntly honest...
This stuff happens in ALL mediums.. Print.. Paintings...3d... Sculpture...Television, Video it happens.... but it is soo much easier on the web to copy ..its SOO MUCH easier to hide it..because people probably wont see your site amongst the millions out there...and there are soo many young enthusiasts out there..who want a pat on the back..i just dont people should pat them on the back for some things... plain and simple..
I don't know about this, Veniogenesis. They are designers because they can do the work. They just aren't at the top of the field. They aren't the trend setters, they are the trend followers.Quote:
Originally posted by Veniogenesis
The thing is, these people aren't real designers. They're just out there, frantically trying to create websites that they and their friends believe are cool.
Ah my fault. 14 year old here doesn't use words too well. ;) Yes. I agree. Sorry about that.Quote:
Originally posted by gdstudios
I don't know about this, Veniogenesis. They are designers because they can do the work. They just aren't at the top of the field. They aren't the trend setters, they are the trend followers.
Businesses don't care about artists.
Businesses use up artists and spit them out.
Businesses are way into trends.
2Advanced is ripping off several who came before.
A design studio is famous for about 3 or 4 years, usually for a gimmick or happening to ride the wave of a new trend just in time to be considered one of the originators of the style.
Good design is simply appropriate. That's all it is.
Studios that last longer than 3 or 4 years are "classic" designers (and therefore ripping off all other classic designers).
There's not much new under the sun, other than increasingly difficult technology. Layout "grid books" are still sold, used and followed consciously or not by anyone who has studied design.
Trends are lame, but sometimes profitable.
Ripping is common. Designers and art directors typically have a collection called a "swipe file".
This is sad. Why do people like this design? Is it not for fun or the shear joy of creating something of your own, an expression of yourself? I am by no means a good designer, but I have fun with every new conception. I feel design should be about challenging yourself to produce the best quality end product you can. It should all be about creating something that you worked hard at, with passion. If you don’t love it, why do it? A rip like this, shows little creativity and I really doubt there was much fun involved. Who are we really trying to impress here? Please note that this is all my opinion and I could be way off. I’m just trying to understand these people.
2advanced... blah blah blah...
after seeing that someone responded to my first reply, and then the mention of 2advanced... its not even worth taking a look at the rest.
-Kac
Good feedback from everyone here, took a while to read.
Overall:
The online Interactive media industry (flash etc..), is suffering from several perspectives, mainly standards.
Flash Kit, others, are 99% amateurs, hobbiests, and 1% professionals.
Maybe because our industry is so fresh and new maybe otherwise, but the OVERALL problem is the attitude, work ethics and standard HERE have become mainstream.
Professionals?:
Unfortunate for Interactive Media, it is extremely easy for anyone to be part of, a lot easier than TV, Game Design, Print, Animation and FX design of which all have governing boards for standards, morals and rules. Professional people dominate all these other medias. Interactive Media does not have any of the professional control, quality, input, support which makes an attitude.
Flashkit is seen as the mainstream governing body if we like it or not, but with professionals consisting of about 0.1-1%, its a receipe to consume and spam our industry.
Solution:
Education, a governing body, a community that is similar to flashkit in awareness but with 99% professionals and 1% amateurs.
I cant change flashkit's members attitudes, but I am determined to be part of the organisation that can be seen as the governing board for standards in Interactive Media with an aim to influence and promote all forms of design and programming, educating and providing a haven for everyone here that will hopefully be considered a professional in our industry.
www.propod.com
David and everyone at FI, 2A and anyone else that is behind this.
Amen. I am a hobbiest, I have had a client in web design, and I don't feel that I am a complete amatuer designer. I feel that flashkit has boosted me to this stage... but once I'm past the newbieishness of design, I want to be able to find a place to post where professionals are there that can help and I can help them. Flashkit is set up for everyone, when in return it hurts the community. Maybe they should set up some forums where the users are regulated, almost like admin forums, but for regulated users.Quote:
Originally posted by FI
Good feedback from everyone here, took a while to read.
Overall:
The online Interactive media industry (flash etc..), is suffering from several perspectives, mainly standards.
Flash Kit, others, are 99% amateurs, hobbiests, and 1% professionals.
Maybe because our industry is so fresh and new maybe otherwise, but the OVERALL problem is the attitude, work ethics and standard HERE have become mainstream.
Professionals?:
Unfortunate for Interactive Media, it is extremely easy for anyone to be part of, a lot easier than TV, Game Design, Print, Animation and FX design of which all have governing boards for standards, morals and rules. Professional people dominate all these other medias. Interactive Media does not have any of the professional control, quality, input, support which makes an attitude.
Flashkit is seen as the mainstream governing body if we like it or not, but with professionals consisting of about 0.1-1%, its a receipe to consume and spam our industry.
Solution:
Education, a governing body, a community that is similar to flashkit in awareness but with 99% professionals and 1% amateurs.
I cant change flashkit's members attitudes, but I am determined to be part of the organisation that can be seen as the governing board for standards in Interactive Media with an aim to influence and promote all forms of design and programming, educating and providing a haven for everyone here that will hopefully be considered a professional in our industry.
www.propod.com
David and everyone at FI, 2A and anyone else that is behind this.
my 2 cents.
-Kac
Sorry if I'm getting a little off topic, but I was wondering what exactly distinguishes a professional from a amateur. I want to get a general feel for what is considered professional and what is not. It's hard for me to tell between the two these days.
Thankyou.
Venio
it'll be pretty hard to limit what goes on and off the net, because its so cheap. Compared to say putting an ad on tv, or creating a print brochure or book, it is incredibly less expensive. until that changes, bad design will still flood the net.
i would only hope that as the next generation of users becomes more net and thus internet design savy, bad design will recieve less attention.
one big big BIG advantage of actual art/design eductation is it really exposes you to so much more. I find that most of the "newbies" think that studios like 2a are the gods of all design (and im not trying to discredit them) but they're not. Look at print, book design, cd rom/game design, advertising and some of the big typographers and you'll see there is SO much more to design than just online presecnces. In general, most online design IS bad in comparison to the previously mention well established fields. In terms of usuablitiy, content, and sometimes some really nasty typogrphay, web design suffers the most.
btw nsnyder, interesting posts which really serves as a wake-up call to many of us (including me). Its disheartening, but pretty much true. Really, a lot of what you said is true for most commercial business types.
Money? whether or not you have been featured on k10k or in Cre@te? where you drink your coffee? good places to start I guess :DQuote:
Originally posted by Veniogenesis
Sorry if I'm getting a little off topic, but I was wondering what exactly distinguishes a professional from a amateur. I want to get a general feel for what is considered professional and what is not. It's hard for me to tell between the two these days.
Thankyou.
Venio
I'm a very successful professional and I haven't been featured anywhere. I think there's obviously more to it than that.
k10k or cre@te, NT, all of that is another story. These "wannabe designers" that pose in places like surfstation are another breath and another topic. The snobby portal of print designers trying desperately to make it as an interactive designer. Off course im wrong applying this remark to anyone that visits these sites, but this attitude comes out a lot from my perspective view.Quote:
Originally posted by qetret
Money? whether or not you have been featured on k10k or in Cre@te? where you drink your coffee? good places to start I guess :D
Had to get that of my chest :)
I dont think these people are 'wannabes' :confused: