Had to quote myself there as you simply ignored that part...Quote:
Afghanistan was a direct response to 9/11, I agree, but there are many benefits that come with it.
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Had to quote myself there as you simply ignored that part...Quote:
Afghanistan was a direct response to 9/11, I agree, but there are many benefits that come with it.
Yea well can you delete the other part too? It makes 0 sense. So do you think we would have invaded Afghanistan if it wasn't for Osama?Quote:
Originally Posted by flipsideguy
BTW, people seem to forget about ALL of the other attacks on the US in the wake of 911... it's not all about 911.
I couldn't agree less with you all when it comes to the threats towards the Danish and Norwegians, over some drawings. That sort of reaction comes from the radicals.
I myself am not Muslim, but I can see how they would be offended. Said drawings/cartoons can only offend muslims - knowing this, why do it? Freedom of speech or religious persecution. It's your choice how you interpret it. I've stated my opinion.
/Flip
Admedia, my point with regards to the Afghanistan war is that the war was to go after Al Qaida - Yes! But there are other benefits that came with it. Simple yes? Or do you need me to draw you a picture?
South Park did an episode where a statute of the Virgin Mary squirted blood out of her ass onto the Pope's face.
I know South Park is raw, but that was really bad and was clearly desecration.
Bad taste? Sure. Was it persecution?
Only if it was a sin to depict Virgin Mary like that. Knowing that a religion prohibits the depiction of their god, prophet, saints etc, yet publishing 12 drawing of him/her/it sporting grenades, knives and other terrorist related weapons... yuh, that's a form of persecution. It is the ugliset form of generalization targeting people of a specific faith in readily available media.
Though if South Park did the same thing I don't think people would have the same strong reactions - including myself :D
/Flip
Whatever. Freedom of speech isn't as pleasant as it sounds, you have to take the good with the bad. Hence the KKK is still allowed to have rallies in the U.S.
I'll take that over being told what I can/can't say any day though.
I don't think there's a PR war against Islam. I think when you hear about 5 guys out of a billion pulling guns on journalists over a cartoon, they do their people a grave disservice all on their own.
No one's saying they have to like it or can't complain about it. But if you call in bomb threats, don't be surprised when people think you're crazy.
Did I say everyone of those muslims that got mad are "gunmen"?Quote:
Originally Posted by flipsideguy
No, I didn't. You might want to try reading the article. It did in fact say that gunmen threatened to do all the things mentioned above.
Pulling guns over a cartoon is as radical as the defamation of Islam in daily newpapers. What you're describing is a Chicken / Egg scenario. Hate fuels hate feeds hate and eventually kills people. Just have to figure out where the hate originates in the first place. Easier said then done.
/Flip
I'm sorry. I can't agree that an editorial cartoon (that doesn't explicitly tell people to go out and hurt someone), is as bad as using violence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipsideguy
That's interesting you see them "as radical as", in other words, on the same level? I would think resorting to violence over a cartoon is worse than the cartoon itself.
Right, one is an overly aggressive reponsone (by a few) to an insult, the other is swaying public opinion by the masses towards hostility against people of a certain faith. As if Denmark and Norway didn't already have a large racist population as is.
I'm spent.
So, an editorial cartoon is now "swaying public opinion of the masses."
From this we can deduce:
1.) Editorial cartoons do not reflect pubilc sentiment, they create it.
2.) People are incredibly stupid, do not form their own opinions, and are easily influenced.
Sorry, not buying that.
So these types of pictures will only sway the opinion of the stupid?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/derek/94399560/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/derek/94399524/
In case people haven't seen them...
/Flip
Yes. Those who aren't know that an editorial cartoon is just opinion and can make up their own minds.Quote:
Originally Posted by flipsideguy
That's one of the fundamental princples behind free speech, that people can make up their own minds and don't need to be protected from ideas.
I tell you what sways public opinion.
It aint the comics... it's the freakout in the fundamentalist Islamic world about them.
Plain and simple. Fundamentalist / Radical (I prefere fascist) Muslims do not believe in freedom of speech. They do not believe in freedom of religion, and they don't believe in freedom for women. They also believe violence as the answer.
talk about a wacked out bunch... they flare up all over the world over a few cartoons. But not a peep from them when a "Scientific Conference” on the Holocaust is hosted in Iran.
Did they ever reach a concensus on whether the Holocaust actually occurred or not? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Adixx
Just like the 'smart' citizens of a certain country who believed that Iraq had WMD or was linked to Al Qaida. Never underestimate the power of media. Say/show it a hundred times and even the smartest will be swayed.
I am personally not a religious person. But I respect the beliefs of others. As such, when someone disrespects people's faith with loaded cartoons I condemn it.
To all the people calling muslims a 'whacked out bunch' or 'fascists' for being offended by something that goes against their religion. If you are so loving and caring, rid yourself of your own hatred first, then point the finger.
/Fip
no, I am sorry... it's not the same ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by flipsideguy