Game Challenges?

The whole idea of these things is that you code everything from scratch, so handing over your existing code base isn't an issue.

"Also I think trying to get pseudobot to run it is silly when plenty of other people seem to actually *want* to run it, and have offered already"

It's his idea, he should be entitled to run it. If he says he still doesn't want then fair enough, I was just trying to show that it wouldn't be a ton of work for him.

0vidiu the theme is normally decided by everyone putting up a couple of random words, such as "water" "wheel", then a couple of those are picked at random and that's the theme :)

Squize.

I brought it up at first- and my main thought was that the basic trick (if there is a special one) can be discussed here.
And persoanally I am kind of relieved that quite a few respectable people here thought the same. If there is no discussion at some point about the behind the scenes of everyone that somehow sticks out (because of crazy or smart ideas) its not very intersting for me.
I think that even you could tell a few secrets- at least I dont expect 100% of the sources but at least something to learn from, and I am sure you have lots to share in that area as well.

Quote:

---

If there is no discussion at some point about the behind the scenes of everyone that somehow sticks out (because of crazy or smart ideas) its not very intersting for me.

---

Well yeah that's what I'm saying. I would always be happy to explain *how* I did something, but not necessarily to just give the finished product away to everybody.

Quote:

---

The whole idea of these things is that you code everything from scratch, so handing over your existing code base isn't an issue.

---

If that's how it's run then it will be no surprise if everything is done in AS1. The huge benefit to me of AS3 is that you can build nice code bases to work with later. And before when I was talking about the whole point of the competition, I said that I think it should be to encourage people to get nice little projects started/completed. No reason to tie peoples hands behind their backs and make their project less than it could be by forcing them not to use the tools they have available to them.

The core concept behind these comps is that everyone starts on a level playing field. So someone writing a game for the first time can in theory do better than someone who's a professional if they've got a better game idea.

If it's a case of "All the games from scratch, but if you've got a physics engine you've written then you can include that, but of course not include the source 'cause it's a load of work to just give away" then to me it defeats the object.

It's very very unlikely that any of the games submitted will be good enough to have sponsored afterwards, even with a weeks love given to them afterwards.
It's about the community having a bit of fun, people challenging other people, and themselves. If it's just a reason for people to actually finish a game with the sole purpose being to throw some mochi-ads in it when it's done then it really won't be in the spirit of all the other previous comps here.

If it's for some of the younger members to actually experience finishing a game, and working to a tight deadline, then it's an excellent thing. And for those not entering they'll get to see the source of all the games and learn that way, which is what this forum is for imho, not just for whoring your wares and the love of the crowd.

Squize.

Quote:

---

It's very very unlikely that any of the games submitted will be good enough to have sponsored afterwards, even with a weeks love given to them afterwards.

---

Again I think that if this is the way the competition is run then this is how it will turn out. My ideal view of the contests is that they will encourage productivity and competition and will generally be a lot of fun. I want people to think that their games could lead to sponsorship. I want them to try to make a real, quality game, in a tight time period. That's what will make it so fun. You wouldn't think that it would be possible to make a great game in two days, so if someone does it, it will be all the more exciting.

Basically I want the competitions to create things for the people involved. So anything that limits them, is counterproductive.

Obviously we have a different idea of how these should be run, so we will have to reach a consensus before we start.

Actually Wes, I've been unable to grasp your point. If people want to make a game to get sponsorship, who's keeping them from doing exactly that? You can always brush it up afterwards if you'd like, or actually make a game with the goal to get sponsership. Besides there are already plenty of competitions out there to get money and recognition, so if those should be the goals of the competition it wouldn't really raise my interest.

The art crowd on Flashkit already has a competition setting, based on a serve and volley system. It forces them to use some given elements and get creative with it. Kind of like the idea that's forming about the gaming competition. Now these serves and volleys spark discussions on how effects were done, why a certain color was chosen and other artsy stuff (no offense). Almost all the time the artist would gladly answer questions about their work.

The gaming comps could be exactly like that. Games that spark discussion about used techniques and coders answering questions about it. The entrants get a challenge and the viewers get a learning expierence. If somebody wants to share their code they can, if they don't want to it's no biggie. Just be willing to explain what you've done. The challenge shouldn't really be about money and recognition but about learning, because, as far as I've understood, that's what Flashkit is all about.

You don't get my point but you seem to agree with me on everything.

There are only two points of contention as far as I see it:

1) Should every game entered in to the competition be open source?

2) Should people be allowed to use previously created assets in their game, or does everything have to be coded from scratch at the start of the competition?


My opinions:
1) No, it should be optional. People would, I assume, happily explain how they did everything if anybody wanted to know. But they shouldn't be forced to hand out the code to anybody who wanted it.

2) Yes. I want the games created in these competitions to be as good as they can possibly be. I don't want to tie peoples' hands behind their backs. What if I wanted to use tweenmax? Am I not allowed? Do I have to code by hand all of my tweens, or code my own tween class that does the exact same thing as tweenmax, just for the sake of the competition? And do I have to do that every month, when I have the code already completed, sitting on my harddrive? I don't want to handicap people. I am most interested in these competitions producing great results. The theme of each competition ("water", "shoot em up", etc) should be meant to stimulate creativity and encourage people on the path to making a game. The games are judged on how awesome they are, and how well they fit the theme. It should be a useful and productive exercise for everyone participating.

1) I agree, source should be optional. Don't want messy code ruining a developers cred.

2) This is a hard one, I think people can use code they have used before, but graphics and other assets they have used in games I'm not sure?

I think we'll have to vote to get the main directions for this comp, as it seems to be various opinions about it. Personally I don't care if people's gonna see the the underwear of my game after it's finished, if the goal is to learn each one from another; as I'll learn from others too. Maybe one solution could be that at the end all the games are open source but only for the purpose of learning, no modifying for publishing other people's game with different graphics, sounds, etc. What I said about the sponsorship was because some sponsors don't want the game to be published before, and I don't think they'd like that the source code has been given away. But if it's for the purpose of learning, not big deal.

About allowing to use previously done code, I don't see why not. I remember Beatcow allowed people to use code snippets in their games. But there's one problem here and it is that the ones that are beginning in the gaming world are in a big disadvantage because obviously they don't have much to grab from. So, I think we must submit this all to voting to get the most fair decisions for all :grouphug:

I think it would be ok to use classes you've previously written or use in every game you do, like my preloader class, or my debug class.

I see what you are trying to say, Wes, but like squize said, the competitions need a level starting ground to be fair. If you can use previously created assets, then you have effectively cut off a large amount production time, meaning people who don't know what tweenmax is, and cannot use its benefits, will automatically be handicapped in comparison.

I don't think this will encourage people to join in, as its already assumed that the more experienced members are using previous scripts and utlities that allow them to create much better entries.

While I agree that encouraging people to create scripts that may lead to bigger and better things is a great idea, it is not a great idea at the expense of the majority of participants. If you have a physics engine built and the competition is to create something that uses physics, you can just put an object on stage, apply your physics and there is your entry, 2 minutes worth of work. It's not exactly fair.

Ok, I've decided: I will run the competition.
No to assets/pre-made codes/graphics, as this will give you a huge advantage over other people.

One thing that I feel strongly about is making the project open source, I mean, if you want a game for sponsorship/money, go somewhere else. Not everything in live has to be about money! (Again, take GNU for an example: They work for 2 years on a project, and then release it for FREEE, without any of the virus/malware crap, to the community. Compared to this, your flas are nothing, I repeat, nothing. You are about as sellfish as microsoft, and thats NOT a compliment)

If this gets resolved, Im going to make a thread for the theme, and the comp will then probably start on the 1st of october.
Would that be alright with most of the members?

Quote:

---

Compared to this, your flas are nothing, I repeat, nothing. You are about as sellfish as microsoft, and thats NOT a compliment)

---

Yes, this guy should be in charge. Good plan.

Quote:

---

I see what you are trying to say, Wes, but like squize said, the competitions need a level starting ground to be fair.

---

I appreciate the reasonable way that you have made all your points. And they are good ones generally. But I still have to disagree on this.

Quote:

---

If you can use previously created assets, then you have effectively cut off a large amount production time, meaning people who don't know what tweenmax is, and cannot use its benefits, will automatically be handicapped in comparison.

---

Isn't that why people are here? To learn about these things and the benefits? Who does it help to force everyone to make low quality games? If the more knowledgeable coders are forced to code like the least knowledgeable, who is going to learn anything?

The point would be that, knowing there is a competition coming up, less experienced coders may decide to put some time in to creating/researching useful classes for themselves, and in the process become more experienced.

Even if you ignore that point, I mean, of course people who aren't as good at flash are going to be handicapped, no matter what rules we put in the contest to avoid it. Isn't that the whole point of a contest? If you don't want the better contestants to come out on top, you might as well just have a random number generator choose the winners.

And even more, the idea that people won't participate just because they don't think they have a good chance of winning, isn't true I think. If the point of the competitions really are to be fun and to learn, won't people be entering just because they enjoy it? I know that I would have still entered a couple years ago when I was starting out even though I didn't know what I was doing. It's not like there's a fee to enter, and at this point I haven't even heard anything about there being any prizes, so it doesn't even matter who wins. (with the exception of Captain_404's love and devotion)

^You do have a god point about the last bit. I'll let this be discussed by some more experienced users of flash.

I am pretty neutral on every issue here. I think its a great idea to release source for all entries but on the other hand I don't think its something worth being overly hung up over.

While you can bring up that the source is useful for learning, I am not convinced that code that was madly rushed through a 48 hour comp is the best model to work with.

The premade asset issue is a little more sticky. I am personally for being allowed to use reasonable amounts of premade code. There is no point reinventing the wheel at every step, and frankly, forcing someone to start from scratch is like cutting off their legs.

On the other hand, using prewritten code to the point where your game is more of a copy paste job than a project defeats the point of the competition. IMO Let people use code but there should be a reasonable amount of new stuff going on.

If I have to rewrite a 600 line class file for a particle, then I'd probably not enter the competition. :p

Quote:

---

If I have to rewrite a 600 line class file for a particle, then I'd probably not enter the competition.

---

Exactly. The same thing with forcing people to share all their code. Putting these unnecessary restrictions on people is only going to lower the number of people participating.

Ok! There is enough discussion.
When are the sponsorers starting the competition?

Ok! :) Let's start building the array for the theme already?..

I think we need to let each dev decide if his game will be open source! If this is not possible maybe to put someone in charge of the competition and have that person decide? Just an idea :)