God-damn !!

Gerbick, I don't know if that was an open statement or you solely mean AK but just because someone doesn't believe in the existence of God it doesn't mean they cannot handle concepts which aren't proven; evidence is in people who are spiritual but not religious, or even scientific theories to how the universe began which lack evidence.

Argo, you can't really go around comparing other people's beliefs to fairytales and then believe in God yourself because to some people like me, that's just as crazy.

AK, you're forgetting that some people believe god doesn't interfere with our everyday lives, this would explain alot of the suffering. Incase you didn't notice when you read the bible (i'm assuming you have) there is a contradiction in God being "All loving, All knowing and All powerful".
If God is all Loving and Knowing he cannot be all powerfull or he would do somthing.
If God is all Loving and all Powerful he cannot be all knowing or suffering wouldn't exist.
If God is all Knowing and all Powerful then he cannot be all loving or no-one would suffer.
You don't seem how different everything would be living in someone else's shoes. Your beliefs and views are nothing significant, they're subjective and if you lived with a different family or did different things in life you may be a hardcore believer and some people on here may be Atheists. There are millions of reasons believe in God and it takes a fool to think they could possibly know and understand them all.

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Originally Posted by tidenburg

Argo, you can't really go around comparing other people's beliefs to fairytales and then believe in God yourself because to some people like me, that's just as crazy.

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Exactly, and me mentioning 'fairytales' was because deepak first refer to what other people believe (or what the bible is): fairytales. So, if my beliefs are fairytales, so are yours, or better, neither is a fairytale, that would be fair, right?

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You don't seem how different everything would be living in someone else's shoes. Your beliefs and views are nothing significant, they're subjective and if you lived with a different family or did different things in life you may be a hardcore believer and some people on here may be Atheists. There are millions of reasons believe in God and it takes a fool to think they could possibly know and understand them all.

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I agree. Your beliefs are also defined by who you are, where you live, what's happened in your life, what you've read, what you've not read. That's why, if you go around and ask people who believe in God, each will have an individual concept of what God is and how she behaves. The same for atheists. Each person believes in something different, personal. There are people who believe in God and think he just watches and does nothing else. There are others that think God likes to play games. There are others that think that God has a plan for us all, and it's not always love and happiness what he wants to offer and get in return. There are others that believe God is the devil. Even between people that don't believe in god, some do believe in other things, like an that there's some kind of energy that connects us all. You will even find people that believe in a thing that is not God, and have a concept for that thing, which might be exactly the same thing that another person likes to call 'God'.

So, I find it stupid that deepak asks a question based on what he thinks 'believers' think 'God' is, or how people that believe in God behave.

Now Gerbick: deepak wrote:

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Argonauta, I thoroughly enjoyed reading through that post(#72). You have great imagination and you truly worth becoming author of a fantasy-fairy-tale book.

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I find this quite offensive, highly highly offensive. And I think this is the first time I'm feeling offended by another user in this forum. I'm trying not to post an insult, so I kindly request that he apologizes. I enter the discussion seriously, posting what I considered a serious answer. I wasn't playing games, or trying to provide elements for the discussions (as I think this is just a discussion, as there will be no answer coming out of this thread), and being treated like that is really offensive to me.

Now deepak

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Fine example of extreme imagination. It can all be said in one word as nothing more than a "coincidence". Its only people like you with such imagination keep the faith going(wow)

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The fact that I was proposing an imaginary situation for you to answer 'what would you do?'. But anyway, do you know me? do you know what I believe in? do you know anything about my faith. Do you think my imagination is the reason of my faith? Again, that's insulting to me.

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My friend, are you kidding? Half of the world has become a burial place just because of this "god" thing happening. "Terrorists" are an example. They bring hell down to earth in name of God.

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No, I'm not kidding, and again, I think you should do your research, because I think you are talking about church, not about God. Most churches for several religions have manipulated the concept of god, what's god, what's bad, and how should a person behave to be 'liked' by god. Some are good, some are bad, some are extremists, but it doesn't have anything to do with believing in god or not.

For example: some christians think that the only thing you need to do to be a 'good christian' is to offer everything you do to God. Let me explain: I'm a web developer...the only thing that I need to do to be a good christian (to fulltill that concept), is to always try to do my best and try to deliver the best website I can create, and when the website is done just dedicate it to God, the same way writers add a dedication (to friends or family) to the books they write. That simple, no complications...I wouldn't need to pray, go to mass, confess or any other thing. Some people think that's the right way, other think that's 'not enough'.

Other christians think that you have to go to mass, comulgate, confess, pray, not eat meat during some days in the year (to clean your soul), etc. Some people think that's the right way, some say it's stupid.

Why I think the existence of God is not important? because people who 'bring hell down to earth in name of God' will still do so whether God exists or not.

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No sorry, what i believe in is more than having just a blindfolded faith on books. It atleast has a "practical" thing in it.
I am not expecting you to prove that god exists, but why believe so? Ok but I got the answer for that now. Its the book.

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so, let me see if I understand. You're saying that believing in God is to have just a blindfolded faith on books? And by books you mean mainly the bible, but also the quran, talmud, tanakh and any other of those type of books?

Personally, I haven't read any of those books, though I really want to read the Quran. The Bible, well, as I'm catholic, I've heard fragments of it over and over, and the couple of times I tried to read it, it was a bit boring actually, but I don't think that reading a book defines your faith, and I don't think that reading the Bible would brainwash me, as I think I'm intelligent enough to read it, and take my own conclussions out of it.

Actually, I think the Apocrypha is more interesting than the bible, and The Gospel According to Jesus Christ by Jose Saramago is a way more interesting story of Jesus and God.

I don't go to church, I think most of the things that the catholic church does and did in the pasts are wrong. I can't understand why you need to go to mass, and I believe that the virgin Mary had to have more than just one son. I think most of the catholic religion has problems. In few words, eventhough I'm a catholic, I think that if I told the priest what I believe, he'd probably tell me I'm going to hell....and I still believe in God.

Oh, and actually I think that, as you put it, half of the world has become a burial place, because of people like you. I'm not talking about whether you believe in God or not, I don't care if you believe in him or not. I just think so. And I won't try to explain why I think that, because either way, you're right and I'm wrong.

BTW, I'm out of this thread.

god didnt want you here anyways argo

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

at some point, there would be so many people on Earth that the planet would start dying, and with it, you and the rest of the human race.

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I think that started occurring in the 1960's. In 1960, the world population was about 3 billion and we needed to start using chemicals to improve food production. By 2000, that population had doubled to over 6 billion. By 2050, that population is expected to grow to over 9 billion and there is no way there are the resources to cope...we will need a second planet of resources.

The occasional war, earthquake, hurricane, drought, volcano, etc makes little impression if it is only killing thousands, or even if it kills hundreds of thousands.

Now I don't have faith in a book, or any god ...or even human nature, so in some ways I agree with you...but I don't understand why you care what others believe, except as some sort of intellectual excercise and point of debate ...and I don't understand your need to be convinced one way or the other.

What does it matter what others believe, or why? We are all to become dust, regardless of how we believe we reach that state.

david

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Originally Posted by tidenburg

Gerbick, I don't know if that was an open statement or you solely mean AK but just because someone doesn't believe in the existence of God it doesn't mean they cannot handle concepts which aren't proven; evidence is in people who are spiritual but not religious, or even scientific theories to how the universe began which lack evidence.

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No. It was a broad/open statement. Seriously, faith is one of those things that humans either have or don't. It's also unexplainable. It's usually based on "a feeling" or what you don't know. And at that rate, faith isn't for everybody; including myself in most things.

So no. Don't believe. Now look at things just as a human... and now you might start to see how you can be responsible for a lot of things around you... alter your near environment, others might follow, things get better. A change starts with yourself, then others around you might follow.

It doesn't matter if you're a die-hard atheist or a devout religious person, faith is a fundamental aspect of the human condition. The simple act of walking requires that you believe that a floor will hold your weight. Then, consider all of the complex social relationships people have with each other and you realize how much faith is involved in every persons life. All business relationships, friendships, etc. have aspects of faith involved in them.

As Random alluded to earlier, even believing in your own material existence requires faith.

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

Okay, though I am not interested in reading spiritual books, since most of you seem to be strongly driven by "faith in books" I am curious to read through a few lines(not by buying one) but if you could kindly share me a link on the web?

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Hey, if you want to re-invent the wheel, be my guest. Don't let lifetimes of work by brilliant philosophers, theologians and epistemologists get in your way.

I heard Kierkegaard was a real douche.

Argonauta, Fairy tale is something which one could only dream about, you can not see or feel the characters in a fairy tale am i right? Now how does fairy tale and an athiest' words be similar. I am telling you everything that you can see, feel, believe. So please dont use that word to an athiest. It really makes no sense.

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I find this quite offensive, highly highly offensive. And I think this is the first time I'm feeling offended by another user in this forum. I'm trying not to post an insult, so I kindly request that he apologizes

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Offensive? Dude, why do you bring in a knife into thread out of nowhere. I cant find anything that could be offending(seriously). The lines: What if God saved 1 guy in Africa, feeds him, and helps him get into college to get a good education, and a few years in the future he goes to your country, and your boss decides he will replace you. You lose your job, and now you're miserable without a dollar to spend....would you still think saving that guy was fair, or good? What if God made you choose: if I save this woman, she'll give you aids in 2 years....do you want me to save her? do you?
..... are really enjoyable to read. Read it yourself again to believe :)

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I think you should do your research, because I think you are talking about church, not about God

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How do you think I am pulling out churches? No way. You are trying to make me pinpoint at something which is not even there.
If you could have given a simple 2-liner reply to the below quote, there is no need for you to make your post look so long.

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(Once again)A very simple question, I need a straight answer.
Assuming that God exists: He only wants us to love each other and be good? Then why the hell we dont do "that" but instead run behind God praising him.
By loving, caring and helping each other but not believing in god will take you to hell?? Is that what your faith means?

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David, in your post #84, the owner of the quote is: Arganouta-suicidal freak, not me :)

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So no. Don't believe. Now look at things just as a human...

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Finally.. Yeah!!! So lets be 'practical' and love each other and not believe in the unknown and the unseen described in books :)

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The simple act of walking requires that you believe that a floor will hold your weight

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So what if the floor wasn't there. Would you still believe that you can walk?
The point is: You believe the floor will hold on your weight is because you are able to see it, touch it, feel it. But in case of God its opposite?? So why the belief?

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...even believing in your own material existence requires faith.

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Wow!!



PAlexC, you owe me an answer(post is here)

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

So what if the floor wasn't there. Would you still believe that you can walk? The point is: You believe the floor will hold on your weight is because you are able to see it, touch it, feel it.

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how about if you are suspended above it in the total dark?? Do you think it is still there? Do you think it will be able to support your weight? If you are suspended high enough, can you touch it?

david

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

PAlexC, you owe me an answer(post is here)

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Dude, after all I've written, and the disrepectful attitude you've shown towards people who have religius beliefs, I nor anyone else here owes you the time of day. Referring to the Bible or Quran as fairy tales in this context demonstrates that you're only interested in tearing people down who are different than you rather than trying to understand them.

To answer your question, even though you don't deserve it, I've always held the belief that we see evidence of the existence of God through other people. the fact that someone took that photo and used it to spread awareness is an example of that, as is the work done by relief agencies and donations made on time and money by people who are well off. This is referred to as a "horizontal" view of God and is expoused by Jesuits. Other people have a much more direct take in divine intervention and there are shades of gray on between. These are the kinds of things you'd learn if you had an open mind or any interest in either affirming or challening your own beliefs.

Maybe God doesn't exist for you because all you see is injustice and you take out your anger over it by trying to tear down other people and refusing to expand your own knowledge of the world and its complexities, inherant contradictions, and diversity.

What's my ownage count in this thread up to guys?

...and, believing in your own existence does require a modicum of faith, even if you're not aware of it. Read Renee Decartes.

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Finally.. Yeah!!! So lets be 'practical' and love each other and not believe in the unknown and the unseen described in books

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Once you've accomplished this, then come back to this thread.

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Dude, after all I've written, and the disrepectful attitude you've shown towards people who have religius beliefs....

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Disagreeing to 'God beliefs' doesn't mean I am showing disrespect. In that case, even you show disrespect to those who don't believe in God. You don't agree to what I say is 'practically happening'. You just add some kind of new God-like meaning to it.

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I've always held the belief that we see evidence of the existence of God through other people. the fact that someone took that photo and used it to spread awareness is an example of that, as is the work done by relief agencies and donations made on time and money by people who are well off.

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Yes all you see are humans. Humans help, humans give life, humans take life, humans spread love. So why God and where God? And tell me why do you feel you are doing a sin or crime by not believing in god? You do all the good things in the world and you don't believe in god, so you think its a sin and you will go to hell? If God was someone like that who never gives you ticket to heaven just because you dont believe in him, he can not be 'God'.
This I am repeating for Nth number of time, and no answer yet(if only you had one)

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Maybe God doesn't exist for you because all you see is injustice and you take out your anger over it by trying to tear down other people

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PAlexC, I must really thank you for all your honest reply so far but I really dont mean to tear anyone down.
But hey, its not just me who see injustice, even you see it but the problem is that you just mask justice in name of God and injustice in name of evil.

Deepak, you should look at the tone of your responses. They do seem to be more confrontational than interested in discussion.

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

So what if the floor wasn't there. Would you still believe that you can walk?
The point is: You believe the floor will hold on your weight is because you are able to see it, touch it, feel it. But in case of God its opposite?? So why the belief?

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Do you believe in whale sharks?

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Originally Posted by PAlexC

What's my ownage count in this thread up to guys?

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It's pretty high by my count. Though, you have to admit to a partial point system here. Dudes a bottomless pit of ownability.

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Do you believe in whale sharks?

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No :D

Do you believe in electrons?

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Originally Posted by FlashLackey

Do you believe in whale sharks?

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Yes... dude. I read this as "land shark" the first few times though.

Heh. I didn't figure that you would have any trouble believing in whale sharks.

Deepakflash, now that you have seen Gerbick's link, do you believe in whale sharks?

Do you believe in electrons?

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Deepakflash, now that you have seen Gerbick's link, do you believe in whale sharks?

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Yep

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Do you believe in electrons?

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Nop :D
any links?

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

Yep

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Ok. Why do you believe in whale sharks? Have you seen or felt one?

thank god deepak doesn't work in one of those call centers, or does he?


anyway, I have another imaginary question, but this time for gerbick, as this thread has proven completelly useless, let me see if I can add some value to it:

gerbick.....would you hit that?

http://smitchels.files.wordpress.com...riana-lima.jpg

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Originally Posted by PAlexC

Maybe God doesn't exist for you because all you see is injustice and you take out your anger over it by trying to tear down other people and refusing to expand your own knowledge of the world and its complexities, inherant contradictions, and diversity.

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God doesn't exist for him because what kind of God would let this happen?

sorry deepak, now I understand, I feel your pain, and I also wouldn't believe in God if I were in your position.

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God doesn't exist for him because what kind of God would let this happen?

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Thanks for that fairy tale link.

You love fairy tales dont you?

Argonauta, thanks for that picture. I now see God.

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Ok. Why do you believe in whale sharks? Have you seen or felt one?

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Seen it? Yes.. In the link posted by Gerbs and in National Geographic channel.
Felt one? No... I haven't slept with a whale shark.

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Originally Posted by argonauta

gerbick.....would you hit that?

http://board.flashkit.com/board/

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Only if she's psycho. I'm all about consistency.

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

Thanks for that fairy tale link.

You love fairy tales dont you?

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Relegating somebody's faith to mere fairy tales isn't something that I'd consider conducive to continuing any constructive conversation.

Simply put... trim the attitude if you want willing participants that I don't have to warn against. This is what is I'd rank as basic "baiting". And if it continues and you get an angry response, don't cry wolf.

Thanks in advance.

she looks like she has a poor personality. just the way i like em.

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Originally Posted by gerbick

Only if she's psycho. I'm all about consistency.

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so you'd consider not sleeping with her. What are you, canadian?

maybe the photo was too small for you to see her nice awesome...eyes?

http://residenciaevil666.blogdiario....drianalima.jpg

Dude. Don't ever discount the power of psychotic women in bed. They have no limitations, no inhibitions, and singularly get behind the moment of chasing that pleasure.

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

Thanks for that fairy tale link.

You love fairy tales dont you?

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please write longer posts man, I like when you write dirty to me...did you know I touch myself when I read you?

ok, my turn, I slowly push you to the bed and start undressing you...

now you

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Originally Posted by gerbick

Dude. Don't ever discount the power of psychotic women in bed. They have no limitations, no inhibitions, and singularly get behind the moment of chasing that pleasure.

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now you're making fun of me just because I'm a virgin.

and how does that 'get behind' thing works...you're naughty.

Oh, and I think Adriana Lima still claims to be a virgin....if she is, and she looks like that, she has to be crazy.

Another one, and I'll continue until I make you a believer:

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...ianaLima81.jpg

that last picture is horrible airbrushed

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please write longer posts man, I like when you write dirty to me...did you know I touch myself when I read you?

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You post it long, and i reply you long.

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ok, my turn, I slowly push you to the bed and start undressing you...

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Sorry, I am a straight male.

Your pics are heating up this thread.

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

i put on my robe and wizards hat.

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it's the devil's work. She was perfect as God created her, why did somebody had to photoshop her?

just for you then, one without any digital manipulation:
http://th01.deviantart.com/fs7/300W/...ma_by_snir.jpg

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

You post it long, and i reply you long.

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mmhh...YES....long, I love that word, long, long, long, long, I like your fantasy. Ok, now I take off your pants, laugh a little, and hug you in a really really erotic way...now you...

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

Sorry, I am a straight male.

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Don't worry, straight things can bend, too, and I promise I won't break you, don't be shy. Oh, but I have to warn you, you'll be screaming 'GOD oh GOD' when I'm done with you :hubba:

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

Your pics are heating up this thread.

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are they turning you on? mmmmmhh, it's working then...

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

put on my robe and wizards hat.

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Oh, I like to play dress up. ;)

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Originally Posted by deepakflash

You post it long, and i reply you long.

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http://gerbick.com/images/loveYouLongTime.JPG

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Your pics are heating up this thread.

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And that's a bad thing!?

And no... Argo. I'd still not do Adriana Lima until she passes my "She's absolutely bonkers" test.

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Originally Posted by gerbick

And no... Argo. I'd still not do Adriana Lima until she passes my "She's absolutely bonkers" test.

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pretty please?
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7...lima918hw7.jpg

She doesn't threaten/entice me. Not yet.