What/who are the fake gods?
I haven't seen those yet.
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What/who are the fake gods?
I haven't seen those yet.
Do the quests til you get the option to upgrade cards / fight fake gods. They have decks with every card upgraded; get 200 life and draw 2 cards / turn. It's mental basically
They also have huge decks, 100 or more cards if I remember, so no way to just wait it out
Is it just me or did the computer get extremely harder? I just got annihilated by a level 1. With the same deck I would always guarantee a win with level 2 and most of the time level 3, but now I can't even beat a level one.
Sucks because I was in the process of buying new cards to build a better, more exciting deck, but I log on today and I'm stuck below 10 electrum because I can't win a match.
The upgrades ****ed up low lvls of farming gold. And the rewards are still so bad that it makes no sence..
Only players that already have lots of gold can still farm them with upgraded decks.
Is phase dragon really that big of a deal? It's a nightmare for decks that revolve around killing creatures for control, sure, but the fact that a strong counter exists to creature killing strategies is generally a good thing balancewise, and mono-aether has plenty of vulnerabilities that other strategies can exploit.
On another note, though, the grind in this game is really getting to be excessive. The cash penalties for losing are really crippling; if you don't already have a decent deck it's very hard to earn money to get a decent deck. Want to try out a new deck? Not only do you have to sink out an even more ungodly sum of cash to buy it, but if it turns out your strategy is weak or needs tuning it costs you even more money to take it into battle and experiment! Worse, even if you wanted to go back and spend hours farming the mid-level AIs at 10 or 15 gold a pop, fighting the AI efficiently calls for a different deck orientation than fighting other players competitively--which means more cards and more money that you have to grind for in order to be able to grind effectively.
Top 50 used to be a decent way to get money to shore up your deck if it wasn't quite up to par for PvP, but now that many top 50 decks are full of upgrades it's punishingly difficult. Upgrades in general seem to really hurt newer players; not only are they ridiculously expensive to get in quantity, but from what I can tell it doesn't seem like you actually can get upgraded cards from top 50 or player battles, only false gods. If this is true that's insane--running up against an upgraded deck in top 50 or PvP means you're facing much higher risk than before without any corresponding increase in reward. Please tell me if I'm wrong, as it's getting really frustrating trying to build new decks and I'd love to see a silver lining in all this.
I managed to beat a fake god with a time/earth deck but I was extremely lucky because I managed to get eternity out early, which really helped because it was gravity and had those fire eater things(which have ablaze) and the otyughs with 4 hp couldn't eat my elite shriekers. I won an upgraded momentum which was worth 868 electrum, so if you can consistantly beat fake gods you could get loads of electrum from selling the cards you win.
The upgrade cards are hardly guaranteed; I've won 4 or 5 times now and only won a single upgraded card, so even after selling it I've got less money now than when I started out. I've had several victories but still only one won upgraded card, so I've made maybe 1000 gold total off of the false gods from selling that card + a couple of piddly cash prizes--but I've ended up spending a bit more than that just paying the ante to fight them.
It's still awesome if you're lucky, sure, but you'd need to be able to win with a pretty high rate of consistency and that's easier said than done--you can't choose which one you fight and they're a fairly diverse bunch, so might have to cough up a bit of cash before you get one that your deck works well against. They're also extremely unforgiving even if you have a deck fairly well suited to facing them, so if your draw is even a little unlucky you probably lose anyhow.
This game has just gotten more and more frustrating. I think I'm going to take a break for a while. If the computer has darkness in its deck and 40-50 card deck by turn 5 it has 4-5 devourers out EVERY SINGLE GAME. NO EXCEPTIONS. I have 6 of a certain card in a 30 card deck and I NEVER have more than 2 of them by turn 6.
I tried a new strategy, it wasnt working. After a few games I got sick of being screwed at the start so I tossed in 6 of extra pillars- for a total of 20 in a 36 card deck. 5 games out of 7 I only had 2 in my starting hand and the other 2 games- I had 6 pillars and drew pillars the first 4 turns.
And that's not to mention the fact of losing gold at a sickening pace since the update. I have had to sell off tons of cards in order to just keep playing- hoping to upgrade any cards isnt going to happen for a long time.
How much is the Metamorphosis cost now? It says 100 but I have 130e and I can't shift: it says "Pick up your new element first"
Edit: I reached 155 and was able to shift with 55coins remaining, seems there's a bug in the check
Well i stoped playing..hoping for an update to balance the game again.
Beated 3times more that fakegods crap, +0 cards,bb money, top 50 its hard has hell with upgraded decks cant farm again gold to try the gods, and not gona sell cards again, i lose more that i win in Fgods/top50.
My sugestions.
-imaterial can be aftected by non direct efects, like area dmg/efects, shield efects/dmg, like in magic.
-more rewards/gold.
-new lvl below top50 with no upgraded cards, but with nice gold rewards.
-fakegods reward like 6spins/1500gold/1 upgraded card at least.
-let players experience more decks/strategies/pve/pvp with cheeper prices, new players have no chance in here.
Yes, I did notice that. I fought against a lvl 4 with a completely updated darkness deck...and I mean everything, dragons, pests, vampire, darkness tower, steal.
When I won, I won 2 spins 1 black dragon and the other darkness pillar. Yet both were non-updated. What the hell is up with that?
You can't win upgraded cards from T50 and such. You can only win the nonupgraded version of it. It is only possible to win upped cards from the false gods.
hey zanzarino, i think there is some sort of bug with the game getting updated, .cause appearently the upgraded aether deck i was testing in beta got carried over into the main game, along with the mark of aether, with it draining my cash for some of the upgrades appearently. so now im stuck with a half upgraded aether deck that you appearently nerfed, and no cash to upgrade the fire deck that i desperately wanted to upgrade -.-, so is there anyway you could un-upgrade the cards and refund the coins, or at least do a rollback even though that means i probably wont get everything refunded plz
Nice to see "my" idea with the beginning player only drawing 7 cards was implemented. I still like to a surrender button for pvp. Its frustrating to see players always leave the game when they are beat next turn and know it and you have to sit there and wait till they time out.
Additionaly i have to say the game looses much of its motivation to me because the upgrades are so damn expensiv. To upgrade a single deck, lets say it has 45 cards, you need nearly 70k coins. Cmon, thats sick, i dont think people like to play weeks and weeks to get their deck upgraded, and than finally loose motivation for it and try sometihng else. When i reached that point in World of Warcraft, where it wasn't the fun i layed for but just the "farming" i quit the game and i think with that upgrades its the same. I see lots of people not playing for fun anymore but just to get the coins to upgrade their cards. Maybe you should include new cards for every element every few weeks to keep people play the game, not just the "farming" coins part.And dont tell me i can win with an unupgrade deck, too. Sure you can with a good counter or luck but a deck is so much more powerful with upgraded cards.
I played the game for about 20+ hours now and i dont nearly have the rares i'd like to have. I think thats more than enough motivation to keep playing. But 1500 coins for an upgrade, cmon, thats far to much. Maybe you should lower that price. I know thats not fair for all those people who invested the coins in the last days, but i think there will be more than enough players who just dont have any motivation to "grind" that much coins and dont want to play with an deck that has not nearly the potential it would have with upgraded cards when they come up with a new deck idea. My suggestion is an upgraded pillar costssomething around 100-200 and another upgraded card costs about 300-400. Thats a lot of hours to play when you want to upgrade your deck but its not weeks or month. So there is a chance you complete your deck in days, and still try something else after it.
Just my 2 Cent
Agreed. It's ridiculous that you can end up fighting decks with 50%+ upgraded cards and all you get if you win is 20-60 coins and a small chance to win a non-upgraded card--but getting curb-stomped by their uber deck still costs you 15 or 20 coins and wastes your time. I can maybe, maybe understand not wanting to give out upgraded cards that frequently (even though I personally disagree; I don't think there's ever a good reason to have more than a token amount of grinding), but c'mon, at least give players something for beating players with upgraded decks.
Just tossing out some ideas to make the upgrade system more bearable:
-If you're not going to give a chance to get upgraded cards by beating upgraded decks, at least put in some kind of monetary reward. Such as, say, if you spin and get a card that the other player has upgrades of, you might only get the regular card but you get a gold bonus. Like 100 gold x the number of upgraded copies of that card.
-Or make it so you get a number of extra copies of that card equal to the number of upgrades the other player had of that card. Giving out extra cards means there's still a financial incentive there, but has the added bonus that you can take the cards and use them yourself, making it even easier to build new decks. If you want to make it really wild, have it give out bonus spins instead of duplicate cards (except on pillars I guess, otherwise all-pillar decks could create an infinite loop); random rewards tend to be more attractive psychologically than fixed ones.
-Alternately, cut out randomness altogether and just give a flat gold premium for beating heavily upgraded decks. Like say you get a bonus of 150 gold x whatever percentage of the deck is upgraded (beating a fully upgraded deck is +150 gold, beating a deck that's half upgraded is +75, etc.)
-Reduce the disparity in cards by increasing rewards across the board, or decreasing upgrade costs. I think increasing money flow is more important though; decreasing upgrade costs alone would simply increase the number of upgraded decks which makes it even harder for newbies to get into the game and get a decent deck set up.
-Implement a limit on the number of upgraded cards players can have in their deck. Such as say a flat limit of 1-3 upgraded cards per deck or a fixed percentage of about 5-10%. That way players with upgrades don't have such a huge advantage over players without them, and it's much more reasonable to get a "fully upgraded" deck. As an added bonus, having to pick and choose your upgrades may help add depth to deck building--you have to make a choice instead of just upgrading everything you're willing to spend the time grinding for. Alternately, instead of limiting number of cards you could limit upgrades to a single type of upgraded card but allow duplicates--this helps limit the impact of luck of the draw, and would also work a lot better for upgraded cards that are functionally different from their base card (like elite firefly queen, etc.)
-If you really absolutely want players to suffer and won't give them any rewards for fighting challenging player decks or make it substantially easier in any way to compete, then at the very least have enough mercy to waive the gold loss. It's bad that a new player taking their deck into higher level matches gets penalized for losing, it is downright sadistic that they get penalized for losing against a deck full of upgrades. I think the gold loss is a bad idea period, but if nothing else I think if a PvP/top 50 opponent has upgraded cards and you don't then there should be no gold loss for losing.
I don't really think it's that hard for a newbie to get an established deck. Everyone seems to forget about what they hated about the PVP reward system. There's a huge incentive for newbies to play PVP battles (although I still think this needs to be a separate scoring/ranking system). I started up a new account with an aether deck just to see how 'hard' it was going to be, and after 11 matches, my score is 174, and currently gold is at 320. Most of that I got from PVP battles. I figure in another hour or so I can have 500 points, get a lobotomizer and really start to focus on a solid deck. Progress on my main account is pretty slow going, though. I just don't think it's as hard as some people think for a newbie to get started. Just my thoughts.
Ok, I take back everything I said against Phase dragon and PU. My deck needed some modification and then this happens :cool:
Attachment 70482
You're not there yet. Once you get your solid deck, then your choices are
1) Smack down a level 3 element a zillion times. Yawn.
2) Struggle against Top50s, and make money very slowly, if at all.
It used to be you could have a fun, competitive game against a T50, earning 20+ or 60 coins a pop. Now, you've got 80 brain-dead games to get your first upgrade. More if you want to buy cards and experiment a bit.
Maybe this is where your main is at now?
These are OK, but I think that the real problem is the gap in difficulty between L3 and L4. We need a level that's as difficult and profitable as the old T50.
I just want to say the game is fun but there's way, way too much grind
I'd suggest giving new players all of the starter decks so they can play more than one strategy for many hours, and letting us sell cards for the same amount we buy them for, as we could if we could trade them.
I just got my rare and can get 40 gold consistently from the computer, but I missed the boat on farming rares, so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do now. Any advice?
Immaterial is definitely simple and inexpensive, so it's a good "in" for a newbie (if said newbie happens to know that of all the options presented to them this is just about the only one that's going to get them a decent competitive deck in a reasonable timeframe), but it's hardly overpowered. It's right and proper and necessary that there are creatures that get around otyughs and owl's eye and rain of fire and all the other anti-creature cards that shut down creature setup; since aether is so horribly slow it's fairly easy to counter if you're not relying on these things. I've done a fair bit of playing with FFQ and growth decks and rarely have any trouble from mono-aether decks (but these decks of mine tend to get killed by otyughs and firebolt and all those things that immaterial creatures are immune to...)
But a newbie can get a competitive deck started. That's my point. Everyone's complaining that a newb can't compete now; that the game is too hard for someone just starting, and I disagree with that. Sure they're not going to have any of the top cards, and they're not going to be able to go up against a T50 deck. But the same thing would happen to a newcomer in ANY kind of a PVP game.
OK, what should I try? I'll give gravity a shot and see how it goes.
I just won two photons in the slots from one win.
What are the chances of that!
Just started a new account with a gravity deck. Same results. After about 30 mins. I'm at 168 score 331 gold with a pretty decent 34 card gravity deck. Now I'm not saying that I can beat a T50 deck or that in 2 days I'll be where my main account is, but it's not really that hard to get started. Just my experience anyway. Maybe I'm just getting extremely lucky....
ok, now let's try a REAL beginner:
i tried going vs the top-50 with my current deck (multi-color, essentially high-throughput oty rampage. wins against level 3 about 85% of the time, barring pillar suckage, only one upgraded card)
(i'd have done this run with PVP but it's much, MUCH slower - the average game takes 15 minutes or so, i haven't kept accurate statistics. also theoretically computer should be stupid-ish and easier to beat than a real person.)
results:
game 1: loss (-15g) - earthquakes played at game start, pretty much guaranteed loss
game 2: perfect win (+60g)
game 3: loss (-15g) - natural pillar suck
game 4: loss (-15g) - opponent yanked out 7 aether pillars on first turn and a phase dragon on second
game 5: loss (-15g) - earthquakes played at game start, instant loss
game 6: loss (-15g) - 3 turns into the game opponent had 3 immortals and a phase dragon.
so i am at -15 gold after 6 games.
what's more, the average game took 4 minutes 20 seconds (this run took me 26 minutes to complete, timing each game individually)
now assuming i won half and lost half of those 6 games, with no perfect wins, i would be at about +45 gold. in 25 minutes. so a little under 2 gold per minute income.
at this rate, to earn 1,500 to upgrade ONE card, i need to play for 12.5 hours *non-stop*. in a week of playing, with no sleep and no bathroom breaks, i can upgrade just under half of a 30-card deck (although admittedly your win ratio will probably start to rise at some point)
and this of course ignores the fact that you have to actually BUY your initial deck (not a particularly cheap enterprise in itself), experiment, and so forth.
so yes, if you know the perfect strategy you can build up an uber deck quickly.
if you don't, you're hosed.
The problem isnt starting out brand new. The problem is there is no mid-game. Where your at the point PVP is a money & score drain and you cant compete in the top 50 because you have no upgraded cards and it takes about ~200 games to afford to upgrade one card.
I went back to my old fire deck and I can win about 70% of the games, but its boring to sit and kill creatures hitting spacebar turn after turn until I have enough quantums in reserve to firebolt the opponent to death. Not to mention fire got nerfed big time- an upgraded firestorm should do at least 4 damage. Making it cheaper does nothing for it when it can't kill upgraded versions of the creatures it was useful for.
Since fire was a dead end- even if upgraded- I switched to mono aether. Im still getting about the same win rate but most games come down to the wire and I only win 10 coins, lose 15 the next game, then win 12 the next.
I've been tracking, im only earning an average of about 10 coins per game. Actually a tiny bit more with the oddball card win- but that wont really add much since the most common wins (firebolt, devourer, freeze, otyugh) all sell for 30 or less. that means in 3 days of heavy playing I might be able to upgrade 1 card. In a month, I'll maybe have 1/3 of my deck upgraded. I don't think I'll have that much patience since most of what made this game fun to begin with- the ability to try out new decks and strategies every couple days- has been removed.
Try forgetting everything you've learned about the game and thinking like a newbie. Go for mono-air. Hey, why not?
Or maybe you're a little bit more savvy and look through the card list for synergy. You could do water/air! That puffer fish in the bazaar looks rad, you should totally build a deck around it. Ooo ooo ooh! Better yet, water/air/aether! Your mind flayer/puffer fish combo is going to rock.
So you go through the tutorial quests, after a while you can take on that big bad level 2 AI. Maybe you take it for a spin in PvP for a while. Let's go out on a limb and say for sake of argument that your water/air/aether deck doesn't work (feel free to try it and tell me if I'm wrong); you've just wasted a couple hours with nothing to show for it.
Back to the drawing board. You can possibly salvage your deck into water/poison, but you're probably better off just starting over. Repeat another time or two, then you start reading up on strategy. Hey, everyone's talking about how overpowered aether is, let's try that! So you start over again and build yourself an aether deck.
Here's the thing, though: suppose after you get your aether deck up and running you realize that it's not actually as overpowered as everyone says it is, and you decide you want to try out something other than mono-aether. Buying a decent deck from scratch is going to typically run you something like 600 gold minimum (+100 metamorphosis if you change color), and that's if you're willing to accept a lot of useless filler that can lose games for you; more realistically for a lot of 30-card decks you should expect to sink 800-1000 gold if you're buying everything new. So here are your options:
1) Grind for 5-10 hours so you can buy an entirely new deck. When you're starting out and have a low score PvP can yield really high rewards, sure, but it tapers off as your score goes up.
2) Burn your bridges and sell off some of your aether cards to buy a new deck, basically draining money permanently from your account.
3) Start over. You can get a new deck up and running without hurting your hard-earned cash, but whatever rewards you gain with the new deck can't be shared with your old deck.
Basically you either grind like hell, or throw away your hard-earned progress by starting over or selling cards at a loss. Worse, suppose your experimental deck doesn't work out so well. You can go back to your boring old aether deck you're already tired of and grind some more--assuming you didn't sell it, although presumably you at least kept enough of it to rebuild it if you sell off your new cards (throwing away more even more money long-term)--but now your score is inflated so PvP no longer offers reasonable rewards.
By way of example: With my FFQ swarm deck I peaked at around 2000 score with about 3:1 W/L (although that includes AI fights, so probably closer to 2:1 for actual PvP), then decided to start experimenting and rapidly drained all my money. When I went back to my FFQ deck I found that the average win was about 40 gold and took maybe 15 minutes. Even if I was still winning 3:1 (and I'm not; upgrades aren't super common yet, but they're common enough that my ratio is slipping, plus I'm finding my FFQ deck countered a little more often than when I was starting out), that would be 100 gold/hour, meaning I'd have to play an entire 8-hour workday straight to buy an entire new deck on my main account. I have a decent amount of disposable income; 8 hours at work earns me enough spare money to buy an entire new game (a cheap or older one, admittedly).
chaser to my previous post: tried same thing with PVP
game 1: win, +37 gold (35 gold, +2 from rolls, + golden hourglass card which sells for 30)
game 2: loss, -20 gold
game 3: win, +32 gold (0 roll bonuses)
game 4: loss, -20 gold
total: 29 gold (+ card)
time taken: a bit over 30 minutes (8:46 average if ignoring the last game which only took 5:30 or so)
income: 1 gold/minute (or 2 gold/minute if you include the card), so still 12.5 hours for one card upgrade (or 25 hours/upgrade if you don't sell cards, which is more beneficial in the long run)
one with slow development
some of us don't munchkinize to get that perfect fit - if i have 5-10 turns to develop i build a completely impenetrable shield and end the game with full health
but in most cases (vs T50 at least) the opponent floods me with earthquakes and unblockable creatures in the first 2-3 rounds and i simply don't have the time to recover before he wins.
I agree. My initial argument was about beginners. Right now upgrading flying weapons seems the way to go (I've got one), or maybe a couple of purify. I don't see where the ability to try new strategies has been removed though. Up through level 3 it's the same game with the exception of some of the nerfs.
I would still be willing to bet that you could create a non-upgraded counter deck for most fully upgraded decks out there. A fully upgraded darkness deck is pretty brutal though. I've got a fire deck with a few Fahrenheit and several upgraded cards, and I've never beaten the upgraded darkness T50 deck. I forget who's deck it is, but the vamps need to only recover half the life or something.
But I agree that the mid-game is very slow. There needs to be some more quests or maybe an arena area that applies a random 'rule' like 'no weapons' or 'no abilities' or something. Or maybe some difficulty settings where you can allow the AI to generate twice the quanta in exchange for 25% more gold or an extra spin or something. Or the AI does 10% more damage in exchange for XYZ extra reward.
Just my thoughts.
EDIT: @ggabriel - You post doesn't argue the point that upgraded cards make the game too hard for a newbie to get into. You can still have a lot of fun playing the game through level 3. And nobody with an account in the top 200 even plays PVP because it's not the most efficient way to grind for the next upgraded card. There's always the option of not playing, if the game has become boring.
It's already been mentioned what the problem with upgraded cards is: top 50 is vastly harder to grind, which leaves you stuck with level 3 (boring to play, low rewards) or PvP (which my post covered). To recap: while the high initial rewards from PvP can help get a deck going, with the diminishing returns there you can still end up painting yourself into a corner if you deviate from standard decks at all (which new players generally won't have advance knowledge of anyhow), or even just switching from one standard to another.
And the "not playing" option is certainly looking pretty attractive. The fake god lotto is all that's keeping me going right now; it's interesting and so far I'm winning enough to break even with upgraded card sales (I've only gotten crap anyhow), so as long as my luck holds out I'll keep playing. As a side effect it's also tanking my score nicely, so by the time my money bottoms out I might actually be able to get money back from PvP at a reasonable rate.
i've posted this before, but now it's really hurting...
next-to-last round of battle: opponent summons a weapon, hits me for 7 damage, i go from 100 to 93 (or a creature... anything which does more than 3 damage pretty much)
my army of 10-15 creatures laugh at this as my turn begins. empathic bond powers up...
the first two creatures kill off the opponent, and the round ends. i earn 19 gold instead of 40, because the rest of my creatures didn't have a chance to use the empathy yet and i ended the round with 95-99hp.
this has happened in 5 of the last 20 level 3 battles i've won. is getting annoying.
is it possible to wait for combat to finish before actually terminating the game?
Ok, so the new problem is that mid-range players can't face TOP50 because they have a DECENT deck, but don't have an upgraded deck, and get squashed by upgraded decks. But level 3 decks are too easy, and too slow of a grind.
My suggestion that will solve almost everything:
Make a level 4 (level 5 would be Top50 decks, level 6 would be False Gods, PVP wouldn't really be a level because it's not AI)
Level 4 would have as abundant rares as level 3, but it would also contain 1-2 upgraded cards, AND it would cost more (if you win: 40 electrum,if you lose: 20 electrum).
So not only are you facing a harder deck than level 3 (more of a challenge), but you're also getting more score/electrum, and your grind isn't as slow. PLUS you have a very very very small chance to win upgraded cards (much much smaller than level 6 because their whole deck is upgraded compared to 1-2 upgraded cards), and I don't think t should be factored in too much, but it would just give in to the gambler's fix. I don't think it should be more than 1-2 upgraded cards, because it would be a bit unfair to win 800-ish electrum in 1 game often if you sell it.
Level 5 should be cost/reward should be upped, because it's basically facing a fully upgraded deck every other turn. and Level 6, people should just stop wasting their time until they have a fully upgraded deck, because even if you succeed in winning, you won't match the electrum you would've won by just grinding an easier level.
What do you think?
Because any non- optimized, non-upgraded deck won't compete in top 50. And level 3 gets boring quick- there's only like 6 different decks to play against.
And yes- I can make a deck that will beat any specific deck. The problem is a deck tuned to beat a devourer/earthquake will always lose to aether. A deck tuned to beat aether will lose to fire. A deck tuned to beat fire will lose to poison. Etcetera. That was before all those decks in the top 50 became full of upgraded cards. Now it's much more difficult and none of my "fun" decks are even worth playing.
A better option would be to make level 4 the top 50 with no upgraded cards. That will keep the variety of new and always changing deck types avoiding the current boredom of level 3. I know that will mess with some of them that are tuned for the upgrades, but that will be minor. It would give back the grindable top 50. Then make the current top 50 a level 5 with the real decks and a bigger coin reward.
The current top score is over 1,000,000 BTW. :crazy: