:)Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypa
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:)Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypa
in reply to DominumBelli:
Portals are reluctant to give this kind of info out unless you are a prospective advertiser. But it can vary greatly depending upon who the portal is and how desperate they are for ad spend!Quote:
(btw, got any links to what you know about CPC revenue on game portals specifically? Would be good to see em)
It seems money from ad's is the way to go, its how most of the big portals make their money, purely through the amount of people who go to their websites. So if a paticular game is getting lots and lots of play's then obviously its helping pull in people to view an ad, and should get a percentage of the money that comes from that ad being there. I was surprised that when I mentioned this idea in this thread before, no one really picked up on it (apart from Squize), now I can it was because everybody its secretly working on their own gaming portal! so its cool that you was brave enough to make what you are doing public.
Its about time more money went into Flash game development and I think your idea is a good way to help with that, what you might want to think about as well, is contacting well known Flash developers directly (not just through this thread) and trying to get some of their games earmarked for your own website.
Just image that the portal receive one lil crapy dollar by hit and you'll understand how much $10,000 is a joke.Quote:
Now…..just to get your mouths salivating……there’s going to be a $10,000 bonus paid when a game first gets one million plays in a day.
"ok, lil fellow, we take your game, use our amazing skills to upload it onto our site and give you 1/100 of the money"
How come I ain't salivating but feeling more like :crazy: ?
lol, lemme know who'll pay us $1 every hit, and I'm there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by artlink
As I've mentioned before, our figures have been based on a very conservative 10c CPC. So we'd need 10,000 (assuming one click per 1,000 hits) hits to make $1. With a higher CPC, the developers proportionately make more.
Hope that clears things up for you :)
aw c'mon! stop that :angel: attitude.
It's all about money and how much can be made from those game developers keeping them in the illusion that their stuffs don't deserve more anyway.
Just compare what a portal makes -all in all- in compare of what they gave to game developers.
I've never done any flash apps below 10.000 dollars and will never, and believe me they were 100 times less complex than a game. Even sold a stupid pong for 5K. But portals aren't willing to pay the prize so you won't see me there.
Keeping game developers in the ignorance of the market and the big money being made out there is what keeps the system alive.
A last word for my pips out there: if you're selling a game 100$, they will never call you when they'll need a 10K$ game, just because for them you'll ever be small fish.
Then again it has nothing to do with the game but with the money that will be made at the end of the process.
No one is loosing money, believe me, except the fellow who sold his stuff 100K.
So, I aint gonna cry for you guys having to spend 10K more for 1000K hits: if you do so, you know exactely why you do it and how much you'll cash at the end.
It's not about becoming a billionair developing flash games, its just to be respected for what you do. So I just earn enough money for what I need to live, never been fooled by companies, refused jobs when the money was a laugh, and got 2 settlments from 2 major companies out there because they stole my stuff (500K for each).
Just mess with somebody else!
Hope that clears things up for you too ;)
Guys this is slipping very close into an all out chat about cash, which is something we've always done well to avoid before, so please let's not start it here.
Squize.
ok sorry for that...
Can somebody tell me then how to rotate a Mc...
Nah! just kidding! :cool:
Lol I almost pissed my self larghing... Dats was funny as hell.Quote:
Can somebody tell me then how to rotate a Mc...
Nah! just kidding!
Yes indeed developing usefull game is not easy... when you think you've done enough, there's almost always room for improvements and new ideas to consider for the next release... My chessgenie (PGN chess game viewer) which I unleashed in our chess club website is one of them...Quote:
Originally Posted by andross_88
Actually, my biggest problem with flash game design is interest. When I get a good idea in my head, I always jump on it. Unfortunately, after completing half of the game, I lose interest in my project. In such a case, I am not motivated to do anything creative. Right now, I've been working on a game called Alien Brutality and I'm 1/2 of the way finished (I've only been working on it for like, a week). But now, I'm quickly losing interest. I've already begun work on Alien Brutality 2 despite the fact that the first game ISN'T EVEN FINISHED.
Does anyone else have this problem? Or maybe I've just got the attention span of a 14-yr-old (which I am). Hmmmm....
Well I guess that what really keeps the interest of the project is to have a DEADLINE. So if it's not a commercial project, just promise the game to someone you know asking them to beat you up if you don't finish it for the end of the month. Otherwise yeah I can understand the interest fading away, it's more a human thing than 14 yo stuff.
Artlink
You have made several very accurate points, relating to how much game portals make, and how indie developers are ripped off. If you had bothered to read properly though the original concept you might have garnered that this is exactly what we are trying to break here. Also, the responses, in that post, from many respected persons in this game forum seem to indicate a certain level of respect for this idea. Furthermore, there is real hope that it can prove to be a solution that will break the rather dismal situation us developers have found ourselves in with the major portals.
Without bothering to go through everything all over again, there is a single, simple point to understand; The developer keeps 75% of the profit, after expenses. Therefore, the more money the portal makes, the more the game developer makes.
This may surprise you, but some here on this board are interested in helping out others (tom, tonypa, squize, just to name a few) and it is a shame when someone feels the need to tear down the efforts of others who wish to assist in the fulfilment of peoples' hopes and dreams. Many people here would love to be able to convert their passion in game creation into financial profit.Quote:
Originally Posted by artlink
I understand your cynicism. However if you were more informed of how our organisation operates, you would realise we do not need to rip off indie developers, because our profits comes from other sources. At the end of the day, you are saying exactly what we are saying, other than you are too closed minded to accept that there can be an organisation which is prepared to find an answer where everyone wins. Lucky for us any individual with a cynical nature hurts no one but themselves
Well apparently we cant talk about money here, so this cant go anywhere really.
Love that "after expenses" line. That's the first line we've learned to absolutely remove from any contract, otherwise you never see the money, because then everything goes into expenses. My dear friend, I managed two multimedia companies over the last 12 years, so I know how to keep the money in the house, and that was while working with multinational companies.Quote:
75% of the profit, after expenses
So yeah it's not being cynical but being experienced.
I aint gonna develop anything for a portal because they aint ready to pay what it's worth. So boo them!
But they aint the bad guys, anybody not ready to pay what something is worth it will get the same treatment.
But it's a free world out there, so good luck for your portal.
And I mean that.
To tell you guys the truth, i resigned from my regular job, and made Flash Game Development a fulltime thing. A 3-digit price tag for a game i can make in a day... i'd say that's a big business opportunity. I already have two Flash Game Development companies. The first is just like youre average Flash Gaming Site, where we also sell customized games. The second is currently developing a MMORG just like Tactics and Dofus. It is in my belief that Flash Games will continue to be a part of the online community. A search of Flash gaming sites on either yahoo or google is proof of the growing number of players, and what some other people (the clients) will do (buy games) to take advantage of this growth.
So you churn out a game every day or so, sell it for <$1000 to a "sponsor" ?
Boombanguk, that's your answer to why games are so under-priced and why the quality isn't higher than at present.
Squize.
I love that "sponsor" bit as well!
Sounds to me like droping a coin for a begger in the street.
If people don't even name honestly their stuff, it's smells bad...
to Squize:
was going to post this on your own blog, but thougt i'd run out of room so here I am :)
so you do agree then that higher quality Flash games will sort the men from the boys (in some cases literally), its just that you don't see it happening because of the current (and I think, that you think it will always be) messed up state of the Flash games market?Quote:
I'd like to say that this will just strengthen the case for improving the quality of Flash games, that there will be a clearer divide between the dross and the great, but I just can't see it.
if thats what you think, then I don't agree. Isn't it a bit of a chicken and egg situation?
Yes I agree, that a lot of companies and "shovelware" portals are willing to pay <$1000 for low quality Flash games, and that creates a distortion in the Flash games market, but if more "high" quality Flash games started appearing, games which are similar in graphics and playability to many "old" retro games (and no I don't mean "pong" i mean supermario world, sonic, etc etc), then they would stand out from the 99% of Flash games crap which is out there, the public would see the difference, and in my opinion be more willing to shell out money.
And whether people agree with that point of view or not doesn't matter, because its going to happen anyway. The Flash development platform is getting more and more sophisticated, which in turn means the "potential" for more and more sophisticated Flash games. And if the potential is there, "real" games making companies will take up the chance to make high quality games, simply because they will see the money making potential in it.
So unlike some people on here :), I think we're going through a transitional phase, where we go from "amatuer" home grown 1 day Flash game crap, to (in the words of wesley snipes) "something new and improved".
To Squize:
re: your comment on your page regarding Otaku
um...isn't that just then going to create even MORE shovelware?? which I thought you hated?Quote:
It just occured to me that otaku will be used to generate a lot of games very quickly. It's quite possible that a lot of sponsor sites could earn a lot of money from it.
Erm what exactly is Otaku? Any links? :I
I'm not a master of this... as I'm just getting into making Flash Games for proclamation of doing so and fun. I have a full-time job so I couldn't focus on doing them for living wage profits anyway.
But... from what I'm reading... if all the money went into advertisements... wouldn't it be possible for the game developer to put advertisements directly into their game and just cut out the middle man.
Surely at every startup or gameover you could show a sufficient advertisement to generate interest for ad companies.
Pardon me and i apologize for bringing this up (i just don't wanna be attacked by making this comment).
But the problem here is not exactly the price of Flash games, but the ecomical state from where the game developers are coming from.
USD500 for a Flash game may not be much in most economies, but for the average worker in my part of the world, that's about 3 months worth of income. If i sell a game which took me a day to finish for USD500, that's a lot money. And USD500 may not buy you quality in your part, but it sure is quality here. It may not be a "complete" game (multiple levels, dazzling intros, 3D graphics), but in terms of flawlessness in graphics, scripting, UI, highscores, it's all there. Quality is not all about how good something looks, quality is mostly something that is "fail" free... to most extents.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypa
That would be about 3 times more then average income in my country. You would be rich here
Anyway, as i said... the problem is the world economy. Buyers take advantage of the cheaper products coming from cheaper econmomies. But hey, it's not my freakin' fault i live in a third world country!!! Unless a developers' union or something is formed to state that all flash games must be top-quality and sell for no less than USD5000, then i guess that we will all continue to see close to no-quality games sold for a measly $100.
Nuff said... do i have to hide now????