word.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportzguy933
word.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportzguy933
I know.
It's funny.... any time there's a converation of opinions, there's always someone with nothing to add that has to chime in with pointless blather.
I love Romper Room... uh... I mean Flashkit.
word! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by JayCharles
JayCharles: You like picking fights don't you :).
http://flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?p=3421924
lol.
Only with you, Junior.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportzguy933
Juinor? What is this about?
Seeing as you're writing "Sports" with a "z" your age is probably closer to 12 than 21.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportzguy933
i don't know but JayCharles is one funny guy :D
I think alot of people here posting "throw him in jail", do not fully understand how that can effect ones life.
I'd liek to see how many of you would still have that same opinion and be so non-chalant about it..like its no big deal. Prison IS a big deal..and should be weighed heavily before invoked for a crime such as these.
again before anyone mis-reads this (yet again).. I am NOT saying he shouldnt be punished.
Yes jail is a big deal, so is pirating software.... others are being non-chalant about it. That is the penalty currently in place for pirating software. Don't like it? Start a new thread about who should and shouldn't go to jail and how laws need to be changed, or another thread about how software makers should charge less to prevent piracy and allow highschool students working at taco bell to afford it...
It's not like he didn't know what the consequences were getting into it... and getting busted the first time. Hell if I knew I could make that much money starting a warez site and didn't have to go to jail if I got caught I might register a new domain today!
Like someone said... he pirated, he goes to jail... get over it.
LOL @ MS Word
Okay, I understand that you aren't taking the position that he shouldn't be punished.Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
I also agree that prison is a big deal. Jail is ugly, scary, and lonely, and is the last place I'd ever want to be. Having been in jail follows you for the rest of your life, both in emotion and on paper. That's why I live my life on the straight and narrow.
What needs to be understood is that the punishment of jail time is supposed to be a deterrant needed to dissuade people from commiting criminal acts. If we start re-evaluating the punishment for crimes like this, the deterrant value is seriously compromised. The basic understanding we should all have is that if we commit a crime, we should expect to rot in jail for it.
As aversion so accruately stated, the punishement handed down to Flashlevel will likely cause other people running the same criminal racket to shut down, and may also stop other people from doing it who might have done so otherwise. This is becuase there is now reality to the threat as related to the crime of software piracy. Case law is a powerful thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if this case is cited in future prosecution of pirated software vendors in the US.
Anyone who commits a crime is (or at least should be) fully aware of the potential consequences, and I really don't feel any sort of sympathy for those who end up paying the price for their indiscretions.
The other side of this that we haven't discussed yet is the potential for civil action brought by the damaged parties. Since the person in question was tried on federal statue, there's nothing preventing the software companies from bringing their own civil action for damages suffered. I would suspect that at least one of those software companies will make an example here.
I understand what you're saying but he must have known he could be going to jail, that's the point, he knew when he did this that he was risking going to jail.Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
I don't really see anyone here saying that it's not a big deal to go to jail, and personally I don't think it's necessarily in these kind of cases, but he knew, he knew that was he was doing could land him in jail and it did. Prison is definitely a big deal, and it's as much a deterrent as it is a punishment, without some risk a lot more people would be stealing, community service just isn't enough of a deterrent.
two points I find valid:
a.) ok..I can see the "derterant" being big..otherwise it doesnt do its job.. the fear is what keeps the "people" in "check"....
b.) he was caught once..and did it again....so this may be pointless in this specific case...
however, I still feel it is a waste that someone with a skill set will probably never be sucessful again after prison. not to mention the criminal record which bars you from almost anything that makes decent money..... recovering from financial and family matters also take years to recover from if ever.
I just think there should be a meeting point....
In reality..what is sending him to prison going to do?..I believe nothing.. deterants dont do much...its he thrill of getting away..or out of neccessity that people do crimes usually. Everyone knows if you kill someone you'll go to jail for life..or be executed...murders happen daily..yet the "punishment" is widely known..
Everyone screaming about the end users..and the companies....what does THIS do for them? Where is the recovery of revenue at?.. I knwo this is the LAW..and thats just how it is...doesnt mean I have to agree with it.. I think its stupid..and does nothing for society or our judicial system as a whole.
So not not only are the companies NOT getting any kind of retrobution, this guys isnt producing an income (ie: family responsibilites), not paying taxes (even LESS money to the government), hes doing nothign but sitting there.. if I was a company..I would rather his time be better spent trying to pay back the loss of revenue...no?
I agree, prison is just pure punishment to someone in his situation, I don't think there's any genuine intention of imprisonment other than to punish someone for doing wrong. It's not think they're trying to rehabilitate him, just punish him for what he did. I'm not necessarily against that to be honest.
There are perhaps work programs in the prison that can take advantage of his skills, he could teach other inmates design for example, at least there should be that kind of thing. As it's Texas I'm not so sure he'll be doing anything but laundry or making licence plates.
I don't think there's any relationship between his punishment and 'making good' for his crimes, and again, I'm not sure there has to be in his situation. The greatest service he's going to be doing for anti-piracy is by serving as a warning to others who are thinking about doing this.
The will not regain their revenue, but they will no longer be losing revenue from him while he is in jail.Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
And other people are a lot less likely to try ripping them off after seeing what happened to flashlevel.Quote:
Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
At very least, it will temporarily remove him from the society he has damaged. At best, it will prevent him from comitting crimes again.Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
What it does for them is provide a true and painful penalty for those that will steal from them. I'd say that has tremendous value.Quote:
Everyone screaming about the end users..and the companies....what does THIS do for them? Where is the recovery of revenue at?.. I knwo this is the LAW..and thats just how it is...doesnt mean I have to agree with it.. I think its stupid..and does nothing for society or our judicial system as a whole.
Society benifits by a) having a criminal removed from the public, and b) restates the idea that there is a price (and a heavy price) for being a criminal.
Not as a result of the criminal prosecution... but the damaged parties can still file civil action to attempt to recover damages. Even if they can't actually collect the money, they can forgive the debt post-judgement, 1099 the defendant for the amount forgiven, and legitimately write off the loss. It doesn't make complete restitution, but it's a hell of a lot better than nothing and improves the company's balance sheet. At that point, the defendant will need to deal with the IRS about the taxes that will be due as a result of the 1099.Quote:
So not not only are the companies NOT getting any kind of retrobution,
Alternately, they can sell the judgment to a junk debt buyer and do the same sort of writeoff. Then, the junk debt buyer can destroy the criminal's credit, and ultimately forgive the debt and 1099 in the same manner the software company could.
So, if i steal a car, and then work to pay for the car after I get caught, I shouldn't spend time in jail for it? Doesn't work that way.Quote:
this guys isnt producing an income (ie: family responsibilites), not paying taxes (even LESS money to the government), hes doing nothign but sitting there.. if I was a company..I would rather his time be better spent trying to pay back the loss of revenue...no?
You can't really compare the two crimes. A lot of the time murder is a crime of passion, say you have a bad day at work come home to find your wife in bed with another man and you kill him...you're not gonna calmly weigh up the pros and cons of prison before smacking him with the nearest blunt instrument to hand!Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
I share some of your views that the punishment is way too harsh, I dont think he deserves to share the same space as violent muggers, rapists etc etc but as others have said they had to make an example of him and yeah I bet there are plenty of people who are now thinking twice about trying a stunt like that.
My overall feeling about this is sadness, just think its a real shame someone so obviously talented chose (or felt he had) to do something like that. His work is so polished I'm stunned he couldn't make a very healthy living without resorting to that.
I doubt many will stop because of that....it usually takes the act of getting caught to stop people from doing illegal things.. because its reallya "reality" to them until it DOES happen to them.
And I knwo ther is no relationship between his crime and rehabilitation...but to ME there should be. It would seem more proactive and give better resluts than just sitting in jail. Hes gong to get what he gets...doesnt mean its a "just" punishment IMHO... I know companies who pirate software in the tune of MILLIONS...nothign ever happens to them.. and if most places get audited for illegal lics... they just make the pay to be complient.....
An exampel is all he is...and one they went extreme on.
There's a huge difference between using unlicensed software and selling pirated copies.Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
how do you rehabilitate a thief?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpockBert
Chop his hands off. There are still places in the world where that happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCharles
let me clarify..not only using unlicensed (illegal/priated) software..but also selling it..making you own keycodes...heatgunning off upgrade sitckers to sell as full versions...selling COA label with HP/Dell on them..., breaking open suites and selling them as single versions.... better?
seriously. I guess start with WHy he did it?Quote:
Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
and address that..
Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
if these companies are in the u.s. turn them in and buy yourself a brand new car!
Ahh...some of you who are enjoying this discussion would thoroughly enjoy reading Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment.
Why did he do it? He has no respect for his fellow man and puts his desires above all others?Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
Okay... that's a different story then... but I'm not sure what your point is. Are you bothered that they get away with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
Doesn't matter. In the US, we have programs for anyone in need (and don't givem e any **** about not being able to take advantage of those programs... all you need is a pen), and therefore there is no legitimate reason that would justify theft. Why did he do it? Greed would be my guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
you're right, it is a total waste. but, he is responsible for that waste, not society.Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
you're saying that someones skill set should come into play when sentances are handed down. our legal system is already a circus enough, imagine what it would be like if, at the end of every guilty verdict trial, we had to listen to lawyers spend three days talking about how good of a wood carver this bank robber is and thus deserves a lighter sentance.
the bottom line is, he committed a substantial crime and should be judged in regard to his sentancing for that crime alone. the punishments associated with various crimes are in large part designed to maintain the working integrity of society. if nobody respects software property laws, that could severely damage the entire countries ability to conduct effective business. im sorry about this guys individual situation, but nothing about what he can do is relavant to me compared to the damage it would cause the country if this type of crime went unpunished.
regarding punishments needing to fit the crime. some laws need to be enforced more severely because they are foundation principles, without which, a domino effect of worse calamities could befall society. for a simpler example, this is why punishments for counterfeiting are so severe. its not a violent crime. counterfeiters probably arent muggers and rapists either. but, undermining the publics reliance on the value of the dollar could be extremely dangerous to society. what this guy did was very similar. he stole nearly a million dollars in property and sold it for personal profit.
anyway. i said it once before. he probably wont really serve 4 years. probably more like 2.
HA!.. you cant be serious..Quote:
Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
1.) it aint that easy...
2.) you dont get any kind of 'results' from the "notification"..
ie: you get nothing..
no clue what your going on about..the question was how to rehabilitate a thief.. start with WHY...Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCharles
noone said anything abotu justfying anything.. you just liek to rant I think.
Yoru not even staying on topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
You've got my number Whispers... I love a good rant.Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers
As far as rehabilitation goes, I think that's simply a joke. "Rehabilitation" in the context of criminals is simply a PC term for "what do we do to prevent them from doing it again.". You can't rehabilitate a criminal any more than you can an alcoholic. People are governed by their own personal nature, and I don't know of anything (short of electroshock therapy) that can rework someone's mind to the point of changing their nature. If you have it in you to steal, you always will. It's just a matter of whether your fear the consequences enough to not do it again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by indivision
Thats an example I know something of.. caught having couterfiet bills only landed a personal "friend" of mine some LAME probation..and that was in the tune of 24k odd amount of $20 bills.... been in trouble before.....still slap on the wrist in IMHO...
again he SHOUDL be punished.. but punishing him in the same way you do a murderer or rapist is silly. I bet you;d all be singing another tune if it was you! (and dont gimmie that crap that you wouldnt..etc..etc..) How would you liek to spend the next 4 years of youe life with "Bubba" the murding rapist..dng his laundry and being his *****....dealing with the race/gang presence all because you sold some bootleg Windows XP?
Should you be punished..of course..you broke a law (whether you agree with it or not)..and you need to be punished. but risking the life of someone who is not from that 'walk of life' (if you will)..doesnt need to learn how to make a shank to protect his life... for a white collar/electronic non-volient crime.
Maybe a few months in jail (not prison)...and a harsh release program..or something.
And I never once implied that because of ones skill set..he should get favors..
Im saying that if MONEY is the reason people are pissed off...then focus on that...
Example: satTV.... if caught/accused of signal theft..you are civil served more or less... they want the revenue back.. garnishing wages or lawsuit...thats their goal.
taking this a personal case...its a shame...and I too am sadened by the thiings I know are coming for him and his family.
I feel the same way about drug dealers (not caught selling to kids/school grounds).. yeah its against the law..but there is a supply and demand.. same with the software. Help, rehabilitation or restitution are warrented before you send them off to Gang College..
WHAT?? no way...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by JayCharles
there is no way you can make a statement liek that..and then follow up by thinking that a consequence will deter ones thinking..
I would think rehabilitation (after being in trouble..and knowing first hand how it is) would be a better way to get your piont across..and achieve the end goal.
Rehabilitation is MUCH more than just a term...whether all forms work and have the impact sought after is another thing..
So drug rehab never works? (they are always gonn ado drugs?
AA?
there are plenty of programs labeled as "rehab" programs that you sometimes HAVE to take.. since it doesnt work ever..maybe allocate the funding to lower the price of all that expensive software! ;)
thats the funniest thing you posted all day! (thanks..things were getting too serious in here)..lolQuote:
You can't rehabilitate a criminal any more than you can an alcoholic.