That is exactly right. For if the us govt informed it's voters about it's actions.. many representatives would be looking for jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jujumon
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That is exactly right. For if the us govt informed it's voters about it's actions.. many representatives would be looking for jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jujumon
Yes, then you'd vote in some other douchebags that would do the same thing...get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
wow, if only the founding fathers had thought that way we would be able to get really good beer.. and butter.Quote:
Originally Posted by hanratty21
The founding fathers did think of such matters. Read up on Benjamin Franklin.
Hah! Pause. Is this an admission that you're imagining me in various outfits? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
Enough NHS. NCAA kicks off tomorrow. Make sure you pull for the Ducks to dominate on the smurf turf tomorrow night. :)
The plaid straight-jacket would be a nice fit on you.
some recent relevant reading on Obama's plans for health care reform - http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...ct-check_N.htm
davidp
Didn't see where he proposed anything new that would alter the CBO's cost analysis.
I wonder who will come out to support Joe Wilson's outburst.
im curious about all the things flash lackey hates about last nights speech.
everything sounded good to me. including the part where illegal aliens dont get anything.
illegal aliens will still get coverage by showing up at emergency rooms.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverx2
If an illegal alien shows up to an ER without health insurance, immigrations should be called immediately to get them deported.
According to CNNs fact checker if they are illegal but qualify as permanent they will be required to purchase health insurance, like regular citizens.
so all that will be done before giving them care?Quote:
Originally Posted by silverx2
Then what do you propose?
I answered that on page 3 or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
step 1 to get healthcare to those that do not have it.
Expand medicaid, not only in coverage but also set up clinics for free preventative healthcare etc. Fund the expansion with fast food taxes etc. Those on the new medicaid for extended periods of time will have to maintain certain fitness levels. Those that fail will be sent to fat camp. You could staff the medicaid clinics with individuals that got fed loans for health related education. Think G.I. bill but for those in a national health service.
step 2. to control the cost of healthcare.
Tort reform will bring down malpractice insurance.. which will cut some of the cost off the top. Remove the binding to employers. Health insurance should be as easy to shop for as car insurance.
I was really just trying to point out that u.s. citizens will still be paying for the healthcare of illegal immigrants. Whether the are included in the plan or not. That should probably be addressed by something other than the mentality of "call INS and deport them.. get them they hell out of my country!"
I meant the illegals.
TGLC,
According to the bill proposed from what i understand, There are two kinds of illegal immigrants those that qualify for the new health care, and those that do not.
The ones that qualify will be have to buy there own health care by law, if they do not do so they should be removed from our society. Living in america for them is a privledge and not a right, and as such if they dont want to follow the laws set forth they should be sent packing.
As for the group that does not qualify yes, they should be taken to a specific location where they are given the minimal required care, and then prepared for deportation.
They will have to be covered. You can either cover them in whatever plan you have or you can just have them show up and stiff the hospital with the bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
It is rational at this moment to time to say that Illegal immigration is a fact we must live with. A good number of years and a large amount of money has been spent to solve the problem. It can not be solved. If a person can have a better life by crossing a line on a map they will cross that line on a map.
Perhaps a better way of looking at it would have been to say that illegal immigration is a problem.. national healthcare is not a problem because of illegal immigration. However when a bill is as large as the one being pushed.. well there are many things to attack and disagree with at the sake of the core need.
Illegal immigration is already a known problem and we seem to be unable to remove these people from society. personally I feel it is impossible. Does the bill include the provisions to create a fairy good mother with a magic ****ing wand to send the illegals packing?Quote:
Originally Posted by silverx2
They are illegal and in many cases undocumented.
So once receiving care will they be placed under arrest?
who is going to hold them? the police? the ins. Is there a budget for the man power necessary?
Are we going to create camps for these people to stay in while the paperwork goes through?
Really think we have the means and will to hold 17 million people in custody for showing up at the hospital?
Lets do nothing about the illegals then, lets just let them do whatever they want.
No matter what we do its going to cost alot of money, and its not going to help in the end because they will just come back.
actually doing nothing would not cost anything, outside of lost tax revenue. but replacing various income taxes with sales taxes would solve that.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverx2
Honestly I really can't understand why two individuals should have two different sets of laws applied to them because of where they were born. It's nationalism.. which is really just tribalism.
They give you cheap vegetables and houses.. the least you could do is give them a shot of tamiflu without interning them.
wrong. doing nothing costs everyone money.Quote:
Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
If an illegal alien gets behind the wheel of a car and crashes into someone else. the person that hit are stuck with a bill, high insurance costs. they get nothing.
same thing with health care, if they get sick people that pay taxes get to foot the bill.
If they want to be part of our society they need to do it properly. as it is now they are leeches on our society. they use our infrastructure that American citizens have to pay for.
so you are saying a legal alien without insurance crashes into someone else there is no getting stuck with the bill or high insurance?Quote:
Originally Posted by silverx2
how is that different than legal citizens without health insurance or the ability to pay?Quote:
same thing with health care, if they get sick people that pay taxes get to foot the bill.
You have not demonstrated how the citizenship status makes them any more leaches than legal citizens with health or car insurance. Especially those legal citizens with very low income that do not pay income tax. Sure illegals don't pay income tax either.. but they don't burdon employeers and consumers with the added costs of minimum wage, osha law compliance or other costly regulations. Illegal immigrants are the hero's of capitalism!*Quote:
If they want to be part of our society they need to do it properly. as it is now they are leeches on our society. they use our infrastructure that American citizens have to pay for.
last two sentaces are a bit tongue in cheek
Being documented, if you cause an accident while not being insured, the judicial system can force employers to take money of your paycheck. Illegal aliens, often times work under the table. No paper trail means no pay to get money from them to pay for damage they cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
under the new bill legal citizens will be required by law to get health care, refusing to do so will result in a 2.5% tax on their total wages(total tax fine not to be more then the average cost of health care for an individual/family). How this differs from illegal aliens, is illegal aliens most of the time are working under the table.Quote:
how is that different than legal citizens without health insurance or the ability to pay?
Thus is they are not documented, there is no way for them to be penalized, If they cant be penalized, there is no reason for them to change what they are doing. Thus the cycle of leeching continues.
valid in theory. In practice those individuals in the same social economic class as most illegal aliens are often payed under the table as well.. or simply do not earn enough to have their wages garnished.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverx2
Is their no income floor to the 2.5% tax? Also in the previous post I was referring to the current condition, not what would happen under the bill as it currently stands.Quote:
under the new bill legal citizens will be required by law to get health care, refusing to do so will result in a 2.5% tax on their total wages(total tax fine not to be more then the average cost of health care for an individual/family). How this differs from illegal aliens, is illegal aliens most of the time are working under the table.
Thus is they are not documented, there is no way for them to be penalized, If they cant be penalized, there is no reason for them to change what they are doing. Thus the cycle of leeching continues.
I didn't watch it. I just followed up to see if there was any news regarding him proposing something different than he has talked about over the last year. Nope. Happy to have used my time more productively than to have listened to the same song and dance.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverx2
If I wanted to hear speeches just because they sound good, I would go to the movies. That's all we really get from Obama. Dramatic re-enactments of Carter era ideas that didn't work. Some still buy it. More and more don't.
...wishful thinking??Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
dp
I miss being lied to by my administration about things we would later commit to... like found weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons, ties to a horrible incident and the felons that were doing the lying.
you shut up you commie bastard.
Yeah. Socialism/communism is the new black. Literally.
i hope all those socialist hating people enjoy shopping at walmart, eating subway, and drinking starbucks, because thats all thats going to be left soon.
I'll take that anyday over all we got from Bush which was dramatic re-enactments and escalations of Reagan era crimes, lying, illegal/secret wars, and screwing over the middle class in favor of the wealthiest 1%.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
Crazy thing is that some people still bought into it, forgot the past, and voted for him twice.
putting some "You Lie!" bumper stickers and tshirts up on cafepress tonight.
There is a place nearby that sells them already. Don't forget... I'm in the state that Joe Wilson hails from.
Sadly enough.
I think his opponent got over 100,000 in campaign donations after the childish outburst.
That's nothing compared to the millions Wilson will receive from the GOP and the people that support his statement.
Where was all of this just a few years ago?
oops his opponent received more than 750,000 in online donations. I'm sure that district will be receiving a good amount of revenue from campaigning from both the dnc and gop next year.
The GOP blasted him for it and requested an immediate apology. I'd say this guy just buried his re-election chances. Respect for the Presidency, regardless of color, is important for a member of Congress no matter which party they belong to. Not applauding is fine -- shouting out interruptions is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
Given what I've been seeing as the new trend; I'm going to have to kindly disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by hanratty21
This kind of behavior will become the norm.
Nope. Observation of fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Probably has something to do with most people observing that those accusations have no basis in fact. Just something you might consider looking in to on a rainy day. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyal Rogue