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And I'm sorry to say I'm quickly learning what I've secretly known all along, most humans are based on bull****ting?
In all honesty I don't believe one second that you care about those 30 people, I honestly don't Dave. I don't want to turn this into a pile-on or anything, but I feel you lack sincerity in your reasons for being concerned about our gun laws.
Yeah, I guess I just live a life where it's obvious I don't care much about others and it's all about my own selfish interests, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by ViRGo_RK
And I guess I actually have no concerns about mates in the States? Damn, you found me out!
Don't bother replying, even more pointless than the other stuff.
Was just curious, with accusations flying about thicker than bullets on a campus at the moment, who's been lecturing anybody?Quote:
Originally Posted by Visionray
Oddly enough, I never said that. I mentioned specifically those 30 people, who you did not personally know.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
Coincidentally, I never said that either. I'm sure you care about those you know in the states, and that's good. But you're starting a nasty trend of using sarcasm to twist words I haven't even said yet.Quote:
And I guess I actually have no concerns about mates in the States? Damn, you found me out!
And have I said that you don't have the right to hold that viewpoint? Anywhere?Quote:
Originally Posted by Planet
Questioned opinions. Presented views and statistics. But have I stated anywhere that I was right and anybody else wrong? Seriously. Take out the crowd mentality (as seems to pervade these discussions), and take what has been said into a one to one context over a beer or two, and what is really the huge deal that suddenly has everyone running around defensively and accusations flying all over the pace.
And if you seriously have issues with anything I've tried to discuss here then definitely make sure you keep most of your reading in the near future to US only publications, 'cos my I'm certainly no scrag on a rock with my curiousity about the whole gun law thing with this most recent event.
Well, I would consider it a little less nasty than accusing someone of not caring of 30 innocent human beings who were shot in cold blood. Sorry, that's a lot uglier accusation from my point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by ViRGo_RK
Anyway, out of hear. Crowd mentality has switched on, and no good can ever come of that. Flashlackey, if you're genuinely interested in following up your questions about why those outside the US would care, hit me up on PM or email.
Cheers.
I'm glad you refused to address the fact that although what you mentioned was apparently less harsh, in your opinion, it still wasn't what I said. I don't mean to mimic gerbick here but at least I can understand now why it bothered him so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
you for starters. Is that so shocking?
I don't visit the other forums, but most of your posts in the CL are US related. You have some sort of weird obsession with America.
this whole discussion is just ugly. just ugly. i'm actually saddened by it...mostly because of davo :(
You guys have provided me with some laughs, let me tell you!!
A new footer for those new to Flashkit looking to fit into the culture, hope it helps. As someone from this thread said to me in a message, the "Flashkit pack" is out in force! Woof!!
And to summarise for those late on the scene, the decent into blood scenting pack:
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Dave: "I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting removing guns altogether. Even in Australia there are guns around. It's more about much tighter controls over ownership and models available."
Dave: "Why not consistent, clear and research based national legislation on gun ownership? Surely that would be a start for both sides?"
silverx2: "its because we as a people are allowed weapons that we were able to free ourselves from englands rule back in the revolutionary war. That right is the last thing that prevents the government from being in complete controll. If you get rid of the publics ability to arm and fight back, you can rule them with an iron fist."
Dave: "And you find it quite acceptable using a justification that was relevant centuries ago to justify "protection" to day over the democratic system that you have in the US?"
silverx2: "Myth No. 1: Guns cause crime. A careful review of 18 academic studies shows that there is no relationship between the number of guns and the amount of crime in the United States. International evidence tells a similar story."
Dave: "Does it?
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
Looking at most of the countries above and around the US, I don't know if any of them would have as civil a society as the US. Looking at those of a similar environment, wouldn't Finland (with half as many deaths) be the first?
So it could be argued myth number one is actually not a myth, so where might that leave the other "myths"?
Nice rhetoric, perhaps not much else."
TallGuyLittleCar: "there is more crime than just murder."
silverx2: "according to nation master, OZ has the highest number of crime victims per capita.
there are 80 crimes per 1k people in the U.S.
there are 105 crimes per 1k people in New zealand
78% of people in the Us feel they are safe from being robbed
42% in NZ feel the same.
1.3% of NZ people get sexually assualted
.4% for the US"
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TallGuyLittleCar: "the united states is sort of large. One set of laws for that amount of area with that number people being unevenly spread in different areas and circumstances is just a bit nutty."
Dave: "So you don't have any national laws that everyone abides by?"
TallGuyLittleCar: "we have federal laws (national), but not everyone abides by them ;)"
-----
gerbick: "Do people get robbed in Australia?"
Dave: "Yep.
#11 United States: 1.38527 per 1,000 people
#15 Australia: 1.16048 per 1,000 people "
gerbick: "Do people die in Australia?"
Dave: "Yep.
#24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
#43 Australia: 0.0150324 per 1,000 people
I think I'd rather be robbed than killed just quietly."
----- cue start of decent -----
gerbick: "It's really sad that I'm starting to believe that some members are here only to point out what's wrong with the world and offer no sympathy in anything other than esoteric situations where their efforts end up being drops of hope in a desert of futility just to say they've done something."
EVPohovich: [i]"It's really sad that I see this as other non US members pointing to the US and trying to say "Look!!" ... All of you.....**** it.....turds......pointing a finger at us need to stand down.
Dave: "I don't see anyone making any suggestions they hate the US. I don't see anyone balking at discussing any issues in their own countries. All I did see (before the usual defensive posturing) was a discussion about an issue that was very relevant due to an unfortunate recent event in the US.
Actually gerbick, this time you can take credit: Until your post (closely followed by EVPohovich's) I thought this discussion about a very passionate and controversial issue was proceeding very civilly, despite people's differing and sometimes opposing viewpoints. Well done old chap!"
gerbick: "eh? you quote me then say this.
either back it up where I said that, or apologize.
Get a clue Davo. You are not a problem to me. You are not a factor even. You factor into my life that one time I had to ban you and a few others for not minding the rules."
ViRGo_RK: "Hate perhaps too strong a word, but with nearly every post you insinuate that the only issues reside this side of the Atlantic, and if you can't see your own bias than it's worse than I thought around here."
tidenburg: "How is this even relevant? The topic is gun control, not my country is better than yours. Guns could be removed from law obeying citizens then leaving them defenseless, however there are other methods of defending yourself and it would also make it harder for criminals to obtain guns, not all gun crime is committed using illegal weaponry.
While I don't think my country is perfect, I also don't think any is and a few people on here are talking like America is the ruler of the world."
gerbick: "To be fair, he's had a few Australia-specific posts about issues. However, I still want to know how my words were construed to fit into such a small box of "...hate the US..." when I had not said such a thing at all.
That's past insinuation. That's a lie. That's purposely changing what somebody had said. That's putting words in a person's mouth. That's libel since the internet is considered "media"."
Dave: "Tell you what, I'll provide an apology once I get one from you for banning me for something you then went and did the very next day to someone else. How's that?
My response after the initial sentence was not merely to your post, but also to another one (hence the paragraph break). Sorry it wasn't spelt out, and previously I have apologised to others for not making that clear (and indeed to you), but since there have been other times where you have not done so but instead have insinuated that I should be able to understand the context rather than you spell it out for me, well heck, I'll do the same this time. So go back and read all the posts and I'm sure you're intelligent enough to understand the context. I have no qualms about giving you credit for that."
gerbick (paraphrase): "Lier, lier pants on fire!!"
EVPohovich: "USA == TheWorldsScapeGoat;"
Planet: "lesli_felix, silverx2, EVPohovich and a few others in this thread can share my foxhole any day if a fight were to begin. TheOriginalFlashDavo, no offense, but I'm not sure what to say about your opinions, I respect them however you CLEARLY have no idea what it means to be an American."
Visionray: "I hate to be rude but I wish some of you guys would get over it already. Change in America comes from within, not from repeated lectures by "high brow" Europeans, and other westerners who think they have the world figured out."
ViRGo_RK: "In all honesty I don't believe one second that you care about those 30 people, I honestly don't Dave."
Continue decent into pack mentality.... woof, woof, woof!!
---------------
It's been a blast guys, really. We should do this more often. Ciao.
Arooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
Group think, eh? So if more than one American disagrees with you, we're just an rabid mob of dogs out for your blood. Poor you, always the victim.
How about rule #4 - Learn to take it if you're going to dish it.
Actually, the idea of the FK "mob" came from an American FK member who PMed me. The groupthink phenomenon is a very well known aspect of organisations and/or groups of people that has some very recognisable traits. I'll leave it up to others if they care to review the link or do further research if they believe those traits are recognisable here.
But thanks for your thoughts on the matter.
Victim? According to the rants in this thread it's the poor US who are the "victims" of all this bashing, hatred, vitriol ...etc ...etc from all us bad non-US anti-Americans who dare to have a point of view. Oh woe is me!
I'll paraphrase Gerbick (since then it must be okay): Get a clue.
Your consistent need to always require the last word is relentlessly tiring...
By the way, your footer's a disgrace man. It's like saying.. "Hey, new members, we're all pricks, I'm not happy here, but I still don't have the balls to go elsewhere." Don't taint newcomers with your bitterness.
The majority of us here know that it is perfectly acceptable to criticize what ever you would like. But when it's day after day you're harping on the same old things Davo, whether you want to realize it or not, that's when it gets old.
Sarcasm still remains the weak man's defense, for the record.
That's mighty interesting, and I appreciate the lecture Professor Dave, but I think I'll pass on the research. I could care less who pm'd you what, though I'm sure you think for one reason or another that it is relevant. I speak for myself and realize there are Americans who don't agree with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
Americans aren't immune to taking criticism, it's just the constant whining from an elitist snob nosed 'academic' like yourself that makes it a little hard to swallow. I know you've done all this supposed research about the U.S., you certainly are very obsessed with it, but my guess is you could type every thing you truly know about America on the back of a microscopic postage stamp and still have room leftover for a shopping list.Quote:
Victim? According to the rants in this thread it's the poor US who are the "victims" of all this bashing, hatred, vitriol ...etc ...etc from all us bad non-US anti-Americans who dare to have a point of view. Oh woe is me!
I'll paraphrase Gerbick (since then it must be okay): Get a clue.
Oh well, at least you only charge what your free advice is worth.
how can a well armed militia overthrow the government when its a federal crime to even allude to killing the president?
Quote:
Originally Posted by swampy
you have a good point. Perhaps when it was written in the constitution it wasn't a federal crime to make such comments about killing the president, not sure.
I've never really bought into the idea that the reason we should have guns is to protect us from a tyrannical government. Of course it may have been a good idea in the past but as has been said, it doesn't really apply now, especially considering it's next to impossible to actually form a huge militia in the U.S. without the feds taking notice and dismantling your operation.
Personally, the reason I support the amendment is because of what I kind of said earlier, I don't feel rights should be taken away from people because a select few can't handle those rights.
As far as using guns for protection in your home, to me the idea sounds good in theory but difficult in practice. Unless you are keeping a loaded gun right beside your bed (and you better not if you have children), then I imagine it would be hard to react to an armed robbery of your house.
So personally, I don't see a great need for guns, and I probably wouldn't cry if they were all banned, but I also don't see the need to ban them either, as I don't see what good it would do. They should have been banned a long time ago to have any effect, it's just too late now.
exactly, look at what happenned at Waco. Were they not simply a well armed militia?
Well armed, but not well-organized. Montana Militiamen are well-armed and well-organized. And they've not been involved in a "Waco" incident.