I'm Norwegian and I have nothing against Islam

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A leader of the Islamic militant Hamas group, which recently swept Palestinian parliamentary elections, told an Italian newspaper on Saturday that the cartoons were an "unforgivable insult" that should be punished by death.

"We should have killed all those who offend the Prophet and instead here we are, protesting peacefully," Mahmoud Zahar, a top leader of the militant Islamic group that won the January 25 Palestinian elections, told Italian daily Il Giornale.

"We should have killed them, we should have required just punishment for those who respect neither religion nor its holiest symbols," Zahar was quoted as saying.

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cnn...

That guy is sounds real balanced. :thumbsup:

Alright.. This is what is getting to me from reading all this. I haven't seen one person who supports the "muslim side" actually address the true issue here. The issue of FREE SPEECH vs VIOLENCE.

Yeah, you are offended by the cartoons, everyone gets that. But does that entitle you to kill people or threaten to kill people? That is the question I would like someone to answer.

Let's try putting it another way.

If a racist calls a black person "you-know-what". Is that black person allowed to kill the racist? Is he allowed to threaten to kill the racist?

If a black person calls a white person "you-know-what". Is that white person allowed to kill the black person? Is he allowed to threaten to kill him?

If a "christian" TV show (like the simpsons) makes fun of the Hindu elephant god (apu's wedding episode). Are hindus allowed to kill the people responsible for the show? Are they allowed to threaten to kill them?

If a jew calls a muslim a nazi, is the muslim allowed to kill the jew?

If a muslim calls a jew "whatever he might say", is the jew allowed to kill the muslim?


I feel comfortable speaking for all the "westerners" both lefty's and righty's when I say THE ANSWER TO ALL QUESTIONS IS NO!!!!

Free speech says I can say what I want no matter how racist, biggoted, evil, stupid, mean, blasphemous, or offensive it is.

A KKK member can say what he wants about blacks and jews, we can't kill him for it. We can feel sorry that he believes that way, we can laugh at how ignorant he is, but we can't kill or threaten to kill him.

Likewise, ONE small group of cartoonists in denmark can depict Mohammed as a terrorist, in fact they could depict mohammed being sodomized by George Bush if they wanted to.. that doesn't mean they deserve to die for it.

If you believe they deserve to die, than clearly you do not believe in free speech. If you believe they are allowed to say it BUT you are allowed to kill them in some sort of "freedom to act" that is bulls**t.

A person can not be killed for saying something that offends you. If I killed everyone who offended me at one time or another the world would be smaller by a few thousand people.

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Originally Posted by flipshark

I feel comfortable speaking for all the "westerners" both lefty's and righty's when I say THE ANSWER TO ALL QUESTIONS IS NO!!!!

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* stands up to be counted.

Game. Set. Match.

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Originally Posted by el-Ignoramus

Only you guys want Freedom to be a one way lane, with said freedom comes responsibility, something those caricature artist never heard of obviously, and an attempt to deface one of the largest religions on earth just to get your five minutes of fame, well I wish them luck dealing with the consequences, after all, we're only practicing our freedom as well


and I recall now someone doing the math of how few nuclear weapons Arab countries hold, all you need is Two actually ;)

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el_Ig, this is exactly what my last post is referring to. There is no "freedom to kill people who offend you", there is no "freedom to kill people who insult your religious beliefs".

And you are not talking about one way lanes. You are talking about separate highways on the opposite side of the country. Killing someone is not the same as insulting someone..

This would be a ONE-SIDED/ONE-WAY-LANE, if a small group of people were making fun of Islam, and not one small Islamic group was making fun of any other religion.

You have to know this is not the case. ****, I can't walk through the halls of my university in december without having the Muslims Student Association hand me a flyer saying the "Holy Virgin Mary" was a sl*ut who got pregnant by Joseph and had to leave town and that the "immaculate conception" is a MYTH.

Isn't that on the same "lane" as drawing a picture of the Islamic prophet? Isn't calling the mother of the christian prophet a slut, and the christian messiah a joke on the same lane?

Now honestly, honestly, in your honest opinion, what would the muslim response be if one of the christians read this flyer, and went and burnt down the muslim students association?, honestly what would the muslim world say to a christian seeing the flyer and burning down the muslim prayer room in our school?, what would the muslim response be to burning of flags and muslim sacred symbols?

Do you honestly believe the muslims would sit back and say, well gee, we (muslims) exercised our right to free speech... and they (christians) exercised their right to burn down our prayer rooms, mosques, etc,. Guess now we are even steven.

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Originally Posted by flipsideguy

Everything.
[edit]As far as I'm concerned there's only 1 human race. Resorting to mother jokes or name-calling when there's nothing to dispute. How fresh.

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like totally everything... oh ok. Is that a mind trick?

btw another western lesson you should jot down: calling someone a motherF**ker is not an insult to his mother. It straight up to the individual...

In any case, I think flipshark's post just about sums up the cartoon argument. Well put.

As for Adixx... your inability to connect the dots in common semantics, your inadequacy in providing argumentative counter-points, and your direct personal attacks only make you look like a fool. You popped into a thread of 9 pages only to post nothing of value to anyone. Well hey, you got the post-count up by 3. That should count for something, right?

I have nothing of value to add :
I've noticed that when I drink a lot, the world is a nicer place, things dont bother me.
My solution, everyone should drink more.
:D

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"I condemn them without reservation, these people are less representative of Muslims than the BNP are of the British people."
Asghar Bukhari, British Muslim

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Regarding the protests in London promoting violence... at least some people have common sense. I mean these guys are living in London chanting "7/7 is on it's way"

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By publishing these cartoons, we are saying to the Muslim community in Denmark 'we treat you as we treat everybody else'
Fleming Rose, Jyllands-Posten

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and if they don't like the liberties exercised in the west they could always go home.

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Originally Posted by flipsideguy

As for Adixx... your inability to connect the dots in common semantics, your inadequacy in providing argumentative counter-points, and your direct personal attacks only make you look like a fool. You popped into a thread of 9 pages only to post nothing of value to anyone. Well hey, you got the post-count up by 3. That should count for something, right?

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likewise mate... your input can equated to a bundle of predigested trash.

I don't play connect the dot games with racists. I'll be in your face. If you have something to say, then say it.

I said my share... for a few stupid cartoons the Musilm world is wrecking havok... now that's just plain stupid lunacy.

there is no counter points because it's outright nuts. A few cartoons published and a consequence of violent protests, armed men raiding offices, burning of buildings, tires, flags. Give me a feakin' break kiddo.

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Originally Posted by flipshark

Yeah, you are offended by the cartoons, everyone gets that. But does that entitle you to kill people or threaten to kill people? That is the question I would like someone to answer.

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Actually one of our own members already answered = yes. And not just the threat of murder, but actual murder is justified in this case. Apparently that is their "freedom". This thread is really bringing out some true colors.

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and if they don't like the liberties exercised in the west they could always go home.

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And if they keep acting like terrorists, they could always be SENT home and no more allowed to emigrate.

I'll bet the NSA is calling for more tape and pencils, jotting down addresses and phone numbers over this. Ya think? ;)

What, and prove once and for all that bias and stereo type are the basis for determining who are good / bad people who we should / should fear!?!?!?!
NEVER!

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Rumsfeld said that the world needed to prepare itself for a long fight against Islamic terrorists who he said wanted to set up a global Islamic empire.

"They have designed and distributed a map where national borders are erased and replaced by a global extremist Islamic empire," he said. "As during the Cold War, the struggle ahead promises to be a long war."

Washington and its allies were doing everything possible to ensure that terrorists did not get hold of weapons of mass destruction, which he described as a nightmare scenario.

"The world would change overnight if a handful of terrorists managed to obtain and launch a chemical, biological, or radiological weapon," he said.

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Rumsfeld.

Oh, and the Norweigan Embassy is burning as well now... check out that video.

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Originally Posted by Ask The Geezer

they could always be SENT home and no more allowed to emigrate.

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actually that works better :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Ask The Geezer

I'll bet the NSA is calling for more tape and pencils, jotting down addresses and phone numbers over this. Ya think? ;)

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yeah, its always a great opportunity to find out who are the outstanding individuals of our communities.

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The cartoons originated in Denmark's Jyllands-Posten paper and have been reprinted in newspapers in France, Germany, Italy, Hungary, the Netherlands and Spain - who say they were exercising their right to free speech.

Jyllands-Posten has apologised for causing offence to Muslims, although it maintains it was legal under Danish law to print the cartoons.

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So I got a dollars says we are going to lose some more freedoms over this, because we don't want to upset the muslim world. Which of course, means they won.

all this outrage and wasted energy for a few cartoons??? Hard to compute.

I'm going to burn all my tapes of "I Dream of Genie" in protest. I'm never going to buy an arab made car, and if it says Made in Iran, I won't buy it.

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Originally Posted by el-Ignoramus

well I wish them luck dealing with the consequences, after all, we're only practicing our freedom as well

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And you say you are a moderate Muslim? practising your freedom for what?

To behead and kill people for a silly incident like this? You should be ashamed of yourself.

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and I recall now someone doing the math of how few nuclear weapons Arab countries hold, all you need is Two actually ;)

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And that would be two too many, and no doubt with the current rational Muslim mindset as we have seen lately, some "martyr" from your peaceful religion may just decide to take the risk for a greater cause...

Dude, that would be suicidal stupidity....what a surprise.

iTony

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Rumsfeld said that the world needed to prepare itself for a long fight against Islamic terrorists who he said wanted to set up a global Islamic empire.

"They have designed and distributed a map where national borders are erased and replaced by a global extremist Islamic empire," he said. "As during the Cold War, the struggle ahead promises to be a long war."

Washington and its allies were doing everything possible to ensure that terrorists did not get hold of weapons of mass destruction, which he described as a nightmare scenario.

"The world would change overnight if a handful of terrorists managed to obtain and launch a chemical, biological, or radiological weapon," he said.

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FINALY!! Some one has the guts to say it, yep I know it's not a pleasant thought kiddies, but the love fest that the west has been having for some 60 odd years or so is coming to an end.


Hang on isn't he a Paranoid Islamophobe who gets his news from second hand sources?

For a minute there I thought Rumsfeld was some one in the know..silly me.

iTony

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Originally Posted by el-Ignoramus

Only you guys want Freedom to be a one way lane, with said freedom comes responsibility, something those caricature artist never heard of obviously, and an attempt to deface one of the largest religions on earth just to get your five minutes of fame, well I wish them luck dealing with the consequences, after all, we're only practicing our freedom as well

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So, you're saying that this response is the "equal" of what's going on... a cartoon done in bad taste, burn an embassy, flags, effigy. Two way lane?

Seriously, what would be the resolution to this? I'd love to hear this.