Hey, I know it's been discussed here before, but I can't find the old thread. Does anyone know around how much 2Advanced.com charges their client? What about other studios similar to 2A? I know it's like an arm and a leg, but I'm curious.
Riki
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Hey, I know it's been discussed here before, but I can't find the old thread. Does anyone know around how much 2Advanced.com charges their client? What about other studios similar to 2A? I know it's like an arm and a leg, but I'm curious.
Riki
probibly around 1-9999999 dollars
no one really knows, it could be anything. I doubt they charge much more than most professional studios, probably between $50-$125 per man hour depending on the resource.
remember, just because we all know who 2advanced are doesn't mean potential clients have any idea that they're any different to anyone else out there. There are a lot of places with good portfolios.
i would say 95% of clients won't give a hoot who 2advanced or eric jordan are, they just want to know that they can do the job at a good price.
2advanced charges no less than $12k per project.
they only do whole websites for fortune 500-1000 companies, nothing else.
i don't see any fortune 500-1000 companies in their portfolio, maybe one of the software companies or the vulcan paul allen company... but lasikplus? higher source music?Quote:
Originally posted by MacroDx
2advanced charges no less than $12k per project.
they only do whole websites for fortune 500-1000 companies, nothing else.
it's not quite razorfish or heavy industries.
where did you hear that?
On the contrary. It's actually more around 95% of the people appoaching our firm that already know who 2Advanced Studios and Eric Jordan are. This is the day and age of the educated shopper. People are doing their homework online before hand; searching Google, attending conferences, reading Books and Mags, chatting and exchanging messages on the boards.Quote:
Originally posted by aversion
i would say 95% of clients won't give a hoot who 2advanced or eric jordan are, they just want to know that they can do the job at a good price.
We have also found that price, while still a consideration, isn't paramount with the majority of our clients. Getting the job done right, in the shortest period of time with the best quality is foremost. Secondly, a firm that will be around tomorrow, established, highly professional and with a significant list of references. Finally, range of services also plays an important role; Print, Multimedia, Video, Custom Audio, Development (Java, C, C++, PHP, ASP, Coldfusion), Web Design...etc.
Pricing isn't something that I'll comment on, other than to say the obvious: "We are less expensive than Razorfish and more expensive than a Freelancer".
lol! that's a great quote ;)Quote:
Originally posted by tpnovak
"We are less expensive than Razorfish and more expensive than a Freelancer".
Still not sure i understand why razorfish are so expensive.....
glad to hear you have such educated clients, that's great, i wish i could get some.
i agree that 2advanced has some fantastic backend expertise that people often seem to ignore when looking at the sites, print too.
liked the 25mg vid.
Quote:
Originally posted by aversion
i don't see any fortune 500-1000 companies in their portfolio, maybe one of the software companies or the vulcan paul allen company... but lasikplus? higher source music?
it's not quite razorfish or heavy industries.
where did you hear that?
Where did I hear? actually finding that out is quite easy.
Your lack of information is not at anyones fault smartypants.
I won't go into more details. thank you.
ummmm, i'm just saying that all 2advanced clients are not all fortune 500-1000 clients. Look at their client list! Is higher source music a fortune anything company? I'm sure 2a did that website because it was an interesting project and the client was good.
don't go into details if you don't want to but it's there on the website :D
i'm sure 2advanced will take anyone's project if it interests them, why would any company restrict itself to fortune 500-1000 clients alone!!
Okay... so uhh, how much does Razorfish charges that make them so high? @_@;
Quite true. Doesn't make for much of a business plan to limit yourself to exactly 1000 potential clients. Also remember, that everything we do CANNOT be listed in our work portfolio... "Bragging Rights" are at times a point of negotiation with larger clients.Quote:
Originally posted by aversion
i'm sure 2advanced will take anyone's project if it interests them, why would any company restrict itself to fortune 500-1000 clients alone!!
As far as how much Razorfish charges, I cannot comment other than to state the obvious: "Razorfish charges more than 2Advanced who in turn charges more than Freelancers". :)
Gahhhhhh... Novak, you've learned the art of being vague! Darn you businessmen :P
I called personally. Its nothing less than 18K.
Thats just for front end.
@_@;; what comes with $18k???
Ahahaha. Listen everyone this is getting a little vague here. There are SO many factors that influence and dictate pricing:Quote:
Originally posted by Eyenovation
I called personally. Its nothing less than 18K.
Thats just for front end.
-Is it a Fixed bid job or Time and Materials?
-When do you need delivery by?
-New Project, Facelift Project, or Major Overhaul?
-How many pages of content are we talking about?
-Any dynamic content feeds? Database? XML Streams?
-Do you need our staff onsite at your facilities?
-Hybrid of Flash and HTML, only HTML, or only Flash?
-Flash Navigation, or the ability to switch between both?
-Administrative tools for performing updates?
-How many graphics?
-Do you have your own graphics?
-Do you want to license Stone images or Comstock images?
-Who is responsible for integration?
-Is your content written, or do you need a copywriter?
-Is this site going to be in English only, or do we need International translations?
-Who's building the back-end?
-Is our company producing the solution, or will we be working in concert with your team?
...
(etc, etc, etc.)
Every single question above and over 100+ others must be answered in order to effectively determine "price". Skill of the firm, customer demand, production efficencies, and related will help you determine an hourly rate. But at the end of the day you don't ask the right questions you may determine that you can do the project in 20 hours and it will end up taking 100 hours. By my calculations that $50 per hour just worked out to be $10 per hour (much less after taxes).
My suggest is this:
1. Determine the entire scope of work first.
2. Determine the client budget for the project.
3. Provide the client with a realistic scope of work that you can do which fits the budget.
(Sorry for the rambling...)
excellent post, thanks tony
:)
Hey Tony i saw that you mentioned that not all the site you all do can be put into your portfolio section. What are some of those links of other sites that you all have done that maybe no one else knows about......???
I wouldn't mind hearing more "rambling" of the kinds of questions you consider necessary in order to determine a proper quote for a potential client!
Quote:
Originally posted by oakleyzrosae
Hey Tony i saw that you mentioned that not all the site you all do can be put into your portfolio section. What are some of those links of other sites that you all have done that maybe no one else knows about......???
i think the reason that they're not in 2a's portfolio section is because of privacy agreements in their contracts with clients.
:D
What does this mean?Quote:
Originally posted by tpnovak
-Is it a Fixed bid job or Time and Materials?
[/B]
Not all of the work that we perform these days are sites. We are asked to build Flash based Applications, Intranets, Extranets, Corporate Presentations, Multimedia CD-ROMs, Broadcast Flash, Custom Audio, Tradeshow Kiosks, Prototypes, Concepts, and much more.
In other cases, we are under non-disclosure agreement (NDA) not to list the work. So, in that context, listing them here would be a violation...
But, here's one for you. Hasn't been listed in the portfolio just yet, but I heard it was just launched on Friday. Not a particularly large project by any means, however it does fall under the title of "2A work for a Fortune 500 company".
http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/expedition03
Otherwise... We have a lot of cool stuff in process that I won't be able to disclose until it launches. For something else recent, check out the piece EJ just did for BD4D Los Angeles "25 Milligrams" (oh and thanks to Aversion for the earlier comments):
http://www.2advanced.com/25mg
First off I am a bit confused, "Privacy agreements" does that mean that they cant say that they designed a particualr site? I dont understand....
Secondly, what ever happened to http://www.nightcityaquarium.com, i always wondered if that site ever went up?
I figured 2A made other sites that no one knew about cause man, I dont know how a company can survive only making 1 site like every 2 months, but I'm just basing that on what i see in the portfolio section...oh well
Fixed Bid Contracts are contracts that are performed based on a list of specific tasks for a single price. There's no break down of hourly rates, and the client knows exactly what it's going to cost. Downside for you is that if you estimate $1,500 for the job and it takes you 1000 hours to complete - that's your problem, not the clients. The trick is to get your Statement of Work (Scope) down pat - to the last detail. So that you don't end up "upside down".Quote:
Originally posted by Grifter730
What does this mean? [/B]Quote:
Originally posted by tpnovak
-Is it a Fixed bid job or Time and Materials?
T&M Contracts are hourly arrangements. Some clients may perfer this arrangement or it is more appropriate when you cannot determine a precise scope of work. Time refers to the hourly portion of your work, Materials refers to the additional costs which you may incur like Travel. (Under this arrangement it customary for a client to pay for your Travel expenses).
Mr. Novak thanks for taking the time to answer som eof our questions....its always appreciated...kep up the goodwork
Yes. NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreements) or Privacy Agreements are sometimes customary, depends on the client. But, they can stipulate no "bragging rights". In turn that creates opportunity loss for you. What if we did work for Toshiba (which we haven't, I'm just typing on a notebook) and let's say they wanted to take away bragging rights. Damn. What are your options? Walk away? or maybe negotiate an alternate price? Here's another possibility, What if Nike calls Redsky who in turn calls 2A (which they haven't) because they are booked or don't have all the specialists to meet the requirements... Again, Redsky may not want it getting back to Nike that 2A did some work for them.Quote:
Originally posted by oakleyzrosae
First off I am a bit confused, "Privacy agreements" does that mean that they cant say that they designed a particualr site? I dont understand....
Nope... Some ideas unfortunately die on the vine or get perpetually delayed... It's all about having enough time in the day.Quote:
Secondly, what ever happened to http://www.nightcityaquarium.com, i always wondered if that site ever went up?
That all depends... How many people are in the company? what is that company's run rate? and what is their average price tag? But as I noted above we do a lot more these days than just website work.Quote:
I figured 2A made other sites that no one knew about cause man, I dont know how a company can survive only making 1 site like every 2 months, but I'm just basing that on what i see in the portfolio section...oh well
How big is 2A? I mean like, how many people work there? :) Do you consider yourselves to be like Kioken in your views of the web? :)
With two recent hires, we total 10 people now.Quote:
Originally posted by Grifter730
How big is 2A? I mean like, how many people work there? :)
Not really. Only from the standpoint that we are in every way a Studio at heart and would rather stay small than become the next Razorfish. We all know how that story is bound to end. By the same token, we don't see ourselves dedicated to the "firing clients" mentality as Kioken had been quoted saying some time ago with respect to Sony.Quote:
Do you consider yourselves to be like Kioken in your views of the web? :)
Everyone at the studio is in this business because it's incredible. The opportunity to do what we love, all day long, and take home a paycheck. We work an obscene number of hours and everyone is always experimenting and learning... (what is a weekend?) But the real satisfaction comes when a client says "WOW!!!!".
Sorry for being out of the loop, but what exactly is so bad about Razorfish? I mean, you don't have to tell me what you think personally, but rather, why does it seem that the general designers don't like them...?Quote:
Originally posted by tpnovak
Not really. Only from the standpoint that we are in every way a Studio at heart and would rather stay small than become the next Razorfish. We all know how that story is bound to end. By the same token, we don't see ourselves dedicated to the "firing clients" mentality as Kioken had been quoted saying some time ago with respect to Sony.
Working obscene hours is almost the same as working normal hours if you're paid hourly ;)Quote:
Everyone at the studio is in this business because it's incredible. The opportunity to do what we love, all day long, and take home a paycheck. We work an obscene number of hours and everyone is always experimenting and learning... (what is a weekend?) But the real satisfaction comes when a client says "WOW!!!!".
nothing, i don't think people have a particular dislike for them, they produce great stuff, i think the thing about them is, like kioken, they courted a lot of publicity in the early days and had a lot of big clients to show off.Quote:
Originally posted by Grifter730
Sorry for being out of the loop, but what exactly is so bad about Razorfish? I mean, you don't have to tell me what you think personally, but rather, why does it seem that the general designers don't like them...?
they paid pretty heavily in the downturn, london seems to be full of ex-razorfish employees looking for work, but they're still active in the states and more power to them.
The problem (in my opinion) stems from the vision of taking a design firm public... The corporate mission of building a sustaining design centric company with some 2000+ employees and unreal revenue is just ridiculous. Evidenced by the failures or eminent failures of nearly EVERY single one of them: March First, IXL, Organic, Agency.com, Tanning, Sapient, Proxicom, US Internetworking, Rare Medium, and Razorfish (just to name a few). Today, those that are still alive are trading below $2 per share, a significant disappointment for those who bought in around $75. And to my knowledge not a single one of them is currently profitable (and many never reached profitability before closing).Quote:
Originally posted by Grifter730
Sorry for being out of the loop, but what exactly is so bad about Razorfish? I mean, you don't have to tell me what you think personally, but rather, why does it seem that the general designers don't like them...?
My point: The big public firm business plan just doesn't fly. Or at least it remains an unproven concept.
On the design side, while it was once true that the design was being defined by these companies. Economic realities, broken promises and mass downsizing have lead many of the really talented designers to search for a better life.
does 2advanced still actively promote itself and advertise for new clients or do you now rely on your impressive portfolio and worldwide reputation to bring clients to you?
Good question. Our "traditional" advertising efforts have been next to nil for the past year - Instead of focusing on advertsing (promos, mailers, tele-sales, etc.) we try to generate a steady stream of experimental pieces (like perspectives and 25mg), attending events (like BD4D Los Angeles), writing books or chapters in books (recently Flash MX Magic), etc.Quote:
Originally posted by antne
does 2advanced still actively promote itself and advertise for new clients or do you now rely on your impressive portfolio and worldwide reputation to bring clients to you?
It's really the best of both worlds, in that the design team gets to experiment and play in between projects.
ive been a huge fan of 2advanced work for a couple of years now,you said in an earlier post you have 10 people working at 2advanced.......do they all have their own areas of expertise in which they work or do you all work on the same project at the same time?
I was wondering,
Why in the portfolio section have we never been able to view the "Mission Impossible" presentation Is it up at all on the web?
Another good question. One of the important characteristics of everyone who works for the company is that they are multi-talented. For example one of our Sr. Designers is equally skilled in Print, Web Design and Flash (and now learning 3D) ... Others have insane development experience, such as my wife who was formally a software engineer on the B2 Stealth Bomber some years back...Or our CTO who has just under 13 years development experience in nearly every Programming Language and SQL Database I can think of. (Ha... Now I'm starting to give away some of our ages).Quote:
Originally posted by antne
ive been a huge fan of 2advanced work for a couple of years now,you said in an earlier post you have 10 people working at 2advanced.......do they all have their own areas of expertise in which they work or do you all work on the same project at the same time?
We run anywhere from 3-4 projects simultaneously (sometimes more) depending upon complexity. Teams are typically made up of 2-4 people. Sometimes only a single person and sometimes, everyone. Again, it just all depends.
Sorry, but this piece was never really built for the web. It was originally for a Corporate Sales Meeting. We tried scaling it a couple times and the results were VERY scary.Quote:
Originally posted by oakleyzrosae
I was wondering,
Why in the portfolio section have we never been able to view the "Mission Impossible" presentation Is it up at all on the web?
do you think 2advanced will ever expand into the television market,i mean like advertisements or something.with some of the stuff you do like your demo reel,and some of your intros..they could easily be adapted for 30 second television commercials..?is this a direction you may be heading in the future?(just a rumour i heard)
hmmmm, a spokesman for 2Advanced studios, interesting, so many previously asked/unanswered questions can now be shed light on, if tpnovak is willing to keep up with it, at the moment he is doing great.
cheers
Nevil
http://www.theory7.com
I'm very pleased to say that Tony Novak has consented to be interviewed for FlashKit :)
I think we would all like to see comments like these reach a wider audience.
if you have any questions you would like to submit feel free to email them to me (link below) and I'll see what I can do.
:)
Absolutely. Broadcast Quality Flash is not only completely feasible, but it's been proven by companies like Kerb. As far as post production solutions go, it's definitely a viable solution in my opinion - After all, at $100,000 a pop, not everyone can afford a complete Avid Video editing station.Quote:
Originally posted by antne
do you think 2advanced will ever expand into the television market,i mean like advertisements or something.with some of the stuff you do like your demo reel,and some of your intros..they could easily be adapted for 30 second television commercials..?is this a direction you may be heading in the future?(just a rumour i heard)