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As a Wired online article and Megnut.com blogger Meg Hourihan pointed out, the affiliation of Macromedia's blogs with the company was a little vague and possibly misleading. You can kind of figure out that the Macromedia blogs are corporate-sponsored, but there should be fuller disclosure.

Macromedia's bloggers want to have it both ways. They don't want to be seen as shills. At the same time, they are loath to bite the hand that feeds them. As one Macromedia manager told me, he would never criticize the company or tout a competitor's products on his blog, "or I'd probably be fired."

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source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...65_paul27.html

What do you think about this? In particular Macromedia making it a requirement that their employee's start up a Blog.

I mean it's not a big deal but I've always thought of Blogs as more of a personal thing - where people can freely express their opinions on certain subjects that interest them. Not really a corporate marketing/promotional tool.

I guess it's a good marketing strategy by Macromedia - but it sort of borders on not really ethical? I guess it's like guerilla marketing or something.

I have just noticed all of the Blogs etc that all the Macromedia employees have been putting up lately (most of whom I didn't even know where employees at first - and only found that out after looking a bit deeper) - and I thought it was actually because they where interested in doing it for a personal reason.

I think i see um as "shills" or whatever that means.

Anyways..

I see it as a great marketing strategy. A lot of Flash community sites are featuring stories from these blogs. Macromedia is making a stronger effort be involved with the Flash Community and keep them informed.

I had no idea that the employees were required to start blogs. That's pretty interesting. I'm not sure what I think about that yet.

-scott

Brings me back to Junior High. We were forced to keep a "journal" which our teacher "never read".

I always thought it would be cool to work for MM, but it sounds like a bunch of enthusiastic camp counsellors have taken over Human Resources. Is this supposed to bond employees for the rest of their lives or something?

Not sure.

But I have to Admit - I do read them sometimes and actually find them somewhat interesting. At first as you can see by my post I was a little bit unsure of What to think about them (and I guess still am).

But overall their not all that bad:

http://jdmx.blogspot.com/
http://vvmx.blogspot.com/
http://btartar.blogspot.com/
http://radio.weblogs.com/0106797/

I think you just have to remember that they are basically Macromedia Advertisments - but none the less they have some good info once in a while.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by snowdude

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What do you think about this? In particular Macromedia making it a requirement that their employee's start up a Blog.

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Nowhere does the article say that. Why are you saying it? I don't think this is true at all.

what's a blog?

hellsbellboy,

Web Log. Kind of like a diary/personal journal on the web.

more info: http://www.blogger.com/

-monster.

we were not required to start blogs (i have no idea where you got that). in fact, the community managers started it on their initiative (led by john dowdell).

check out this post i made with a list of all of the resources on flash components:

http://radio.weblogs.com/0106797/2002/06/05.html#a124

notice that most of the links are to non-macromedia resources. Before the weblogs, i would have written this for the macromedia website, and it would have taken a couple of weeks to get it live. with the weblog, i could put it together and post it instatly. plus, if there is an error or i left some info out, i can update it immediately. all in all, the info gets to the community faster.

they are not advertisements for a product, but a way for us to more effectively communicate with the community. before, if there was info we wanted to get out, i would have to post it to tons of forums and mailing lists, and then respnd to the same questions over and over. now i can post it to my weblog, have the other flash weblogs and community sites pick it up. if i need to update or add information, i only have to add it in one place.

mike chambers

[email protected]

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Originally posted by monsterfx
hellsbellboy,

Web Log. Kind of like a diary/personal journal on the web.

more info: http://www.blogger.com/

-monster.

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thank you monster.

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Originally posted by snowdude
What do you think about this? In particular Macromedia making it a requirement that their employee's start up a Blog.

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we were not required to start weblogs. where did you get that?

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I have just noticed all of the Blogs etc that all the Macromedia employees have been putting up lately (most of whom I didn't even know where employees at first - and only found that out after looking a bit deeper)

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http://radio.weblogs.com/0106797/2002/05/28.html#a107

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- and I thought it was actually because they where interested in doing it for a personal reason.

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i don't see anything on there that suggests that we are not doing these because we personally want to.

mike chambers

[email protected]

I've got to say that it has become a daily routine of mine to read a handful of these blogs (MM community leaders and non), and one of the nice things about the CL blogs is that they are generally focused (not sure if Mike is going to start posting bad poetry or about what he had for lunch anytime soon ;)), and have a lot of good information quicker, given their proximity to the source.

Reading Mike's blog, it's obvious that he's a coder first, MM employee second. JD generally gives me a feeling of a "bigger picture" outlook on the community and the products.

Of course, as I did with JDB's blog when he took a swipe at Flashkit, I have to post a reciprocal link to JD's blog today : http://jdmx.blogspot.com/ , as he has commented on this thread. And naturally, I have to refute his last comment - in web communities, the members often use aliases for posts. And if JD took the time to check the profile of the user he refers to, not only would he have found some profile details, but also a picture and personal site of a "real person" behind the post.

Seems like a case of a community director biting the hand that feeds them - I wouldn't want to submit a feedback mail about design to someone who might come back and disregard my input because I didn't sign the e-mail with my full name. :D

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Originally posted by CNO

Seems like a case of a community director biting the hand that feeds them - I wouldn't want to submit a feedback mail about design to someone who might come back and disregard my input because I didn't sign the e-mail with my full name. :D

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i think it was more of john responding to being called a "shill" by someone who doesn't appear to know all of the facts about the situation.

mike chambers

[email protected]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MikeChambers

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Originally posted by CNO
i think it was more of john responding to being called a "shill" by someone who doesn't appear to know all of the facts about the situation.

mike chambers

[email protected]

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But that isn't who he chose to quote. He pulled out the comment that seemed like a valid enough and justified response.

Responding to a baseless claim is one thing. Dismissing the members of a community is another.

Hey I don't even know what a "Shill" is.

Was just quoting it from:

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Macromedia's bloggers want to have it both ways. They don't want to be seen as shills. At the same time, they are loath to bite the hand that feeds them. As one Macromedia manager told me, he would never criticize the company or tout a competitor's products on his blog, "or I'd probably be fired."

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The article. - also:

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But corporate blogs should provide full disclosure of their vested interests. Let the reader decide. That way, everybody wins.

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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...65_paul27.html [mod edit... fixed url link]

Personally I've started to like reading them. Was a bit weirded out when I found they where just Corporate sponsered Blogs though..
[Edited by JabezStone on 06-16-2002 at 11:45 PM]

The whole biting the hand / quoting thing (just identifying for other members) was:

FlashKit on Macromedia blogs: I found the link in my referrer logs. I wish people would read before forming an opinion, much less publishing an opinion. I started this blog out of my own volition. I did check with other folks in the shop first, and nobody said "Don't do it". More info is in the archives here...

"Brings me back to Junior High... I always thought it would be cool to work for MM, but it sounds like a bunch of enthusiastic camp counsellors have taken over Human Resources." This was written by someone who identifies themself publicly as "Anna Banana". Online rule-of-thumb: If someone won't claim ownership of their words, this is often an indication of those words' value.

And, I have NO idea what a shill is :)

Huh? If you want my real name, I'll gladly give it if you ask, but I don't think it's appropriate to put me down because I use a nickname on forums...

Sorry, I was wrong too (like some other people who posted opinions under assumed names), I was under the impression from reading earlier posts that they were required to post blogs. I don't know why you chose me specifically.

Sheesh! RrrrOowr!

[Edited by Anna Banana on 06-14-2002 at 08:29 PM]

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Originally posted by Anna Banana
Huh? If you want my real name, I'll gladly give it if you ask, but I don't think it's appropriate to put me down because I use a nickname on forums...

Sorry, I was wrong too (like some other people who posted opinions under assumed names), I was under the impression from reading earlier posts that they were required to post blogs. I don't know why you chose me specifically.

Sheesh! RrrrOowr!

[Edited by Anna Banana on 06-14-2002 at 08:29 PM]

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ok what's ur name? hehe what's ur phone number so I can confirm it?


oh geez.. bad joke for me.. sorry.. going to bed.

Haha, that should have been expected...:)

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"Brings me back to Junior High... I always thought it would be cool to work for MM, but it sounds like a bunch of enthusiastic camp counsellors have taken over Human Resources."

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I was laughing (Anna Banana's comments) - I think they shoulda been picking on me though.. Sorry about that.

I can't believe the comment got published in his Blog though, seemed like a little too direct a comment. I think I got a little carried away when I said it was required - but that was what I thought when I read over that article - even now I'm not sure what the case is, not that it matters either way. I still read them over once in a while.

- This is the second arguement I've started with MM this week - wow, first 2 ever and in one week (Mike knows what I'm talkin about - "Flash remoting - what a Shill lol" should've followed that one up). It's gotta be some kind of good publicity for them though (at least some more people know about them).

Haha, no no, don't worry about it...I think lately people have been assuming too much that everyone under 100 posts is also under 15. It really was just a lighthearted comment, not an attack on MM, and I didn't intend it to be any sort of bold statement. Thanks for getting it anyway!

It just reminded me! :)

Anyway, glad that MM isn't forcing blogging on anyone, all cleared up...on with the thread. :D

it's too late Anna Banana.. ur blacklisted by MM. LOL

Haha, Ooooh Noooo! :)

(Later Edit)

Uh, okay, I didn't realize that he actually put that in his blog. Here I am...ticked off at Ed because I thought those comments came from him. Sorry Ed!

Alright, well that's just ridiculous. Now I'm the big jerk on FK who bashed Macromedia blogs. Nice. Thanks JD.

Since I'm bashing...maybe someone should add that not only do they want to do them, they're extremely defensive of them, and have absolutely no sense of humor surrounding them.

Hopefully you'll understand, I'm a little less than happy about that quote, regardless of the name it's under.


[Edited by Anna Banana on 06-15-2002 at 02:22 AM]

I was in a bit of a hurry, I should have made it more clear hwat I was on about... or at least used a quote.

I also thought your comments where a lighthearted, and laughed at the parrallel drawn, oh well. Let's just leave it at 5mins of fame :)

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Since I'm bashing...maybe someone should add that not only do they want to do them, they're extremely defensive of them, and have absolutely no sense of humor surrounding them.

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LOL Love this thread!
The Blogs are actually very useful. What remains to be seen is what happens if one of the Macromedia has a bad day at work... If they'd post something personal and not too suitable for Macromedia the 'Corporate Blogging Movement' could die quickly.

Then again, I feel that Macromedia is a company slightly different from i.e. Adobe. Macromedia seems able to adjust focus quickly and it seems like a nice place to work. Companies like Adobe seem like big, stiff, giant corporations that have forgotten how to invent new, cool and exciting stuff. They're now focusing more on corporate customers instead of the creative customers that actually built the company.

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Originally posted by Anna Banana
Since I'm bashing...maybe someone should add that not only do they want to do them, they're extremely defensive of them, and have absolutely no sense of humor surrounding them.

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I wouldn't take it too personally - it seems like it's the trendy thing to do to pick on Flashkit.

I personally am thrilled to be a part of a site where people aren't afraid to have an opinion about these things, and don't have to kiss any @$$ for fear of not getting a reciprocal link - guess that's what happens when your site is popular enough to sustain itself like FK. :D

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Originally posted by CNO

I wouldn't take it too personally - it seems like it's the trendy thing to do to pick on Flashkit.

I personally am thrilled to be a part of a site where people aren't afraid to have an opinion about these things, and don't have to kiss any @$$ for fear of not getting a reciprocal link - guess that's what happens when your site is popular enough to sustain itself like FK. :D

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ah yes ! One of the greatest advantages hanging around here in this yellow place is that it is so refreshing and BS- free :)

i sure hope it stays that way and i'll be here for as long as it does !

And no i dont check Blogs -- i dont have time to read the same news stories over and over again :p

a

Well, Snowdude isn't the person to say that Macromedia was requiring their employees (actually managers/top guys) to start blogs. This rumor has got to be coming from somewhere.

Any ideas?

-scott

My biggest issue was with the fact that JD thought it pertinent to say that you should not respect the opinion of someone who does not use their own name when posting - does this mean that he also looks down upon people who post in the Macromedia web forums with silly names like 'Newsgroup User'? The very same people and posts he often quotes in his blog? It would discredit a lot of what he has written on there if so...

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Originally posted by CNO
My biggest issue was with the fact that JD thought it pertinent to say that you should not respect the opinion of someone who does not use their own name when posting - does this mean that he also looks down upon people who post in the Macromedia web forums with silly names like 'Newsgroup User'? The very same people and posts he often quotes in his blog? It would discredit a lot of what he has written on there if so...

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CNO,

This is the part of the article to which snowdude was referring, and which led him to believe (and me) that, if not all, at least some of the blogs are Macromedia Sponsored...

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Macromedia gets a C+ in the latter regard. As a Wired online article and Megnut.com blogger Meg Hourihan pointed out, the affiliation of Macromedia's blogs with the company was a little vague and possibly misleading. You can kind of figure out that the Macromedia blogs are corporate-sponsored, but there should be fuller disclosure.

Macromedia's bloggers want to have it both ways. They don't want to be seen as shills. At the same time, they are loath to bite the hand that feeds them. As one Macromedia manager told me, he would never criticize the company or tout a competitor's products on his blog, "or I'd probably be fired."

Complicating the situation, a number of independent Macromedia-oriented blogs also exist, raising suspicions from the ever-cynical Web community that corporations may try to co-opt independent blogs. I tend to doubt it. Web users are pretty savvy at defending their turf.
[full article here]

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From what the article's author states, it does sound like at least some of the blogs are sponsored by the company. Mike Chambers, at least, stated on this board that his blog is not sponsored by the company... or that's the way I've interpreted it.

So, what is the real truth here, Mike? Are there any Macromedia Corporate sponsored blogs?

And in case anyone is interested...

From Dictionary.com

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shill Pronunciation Key (shil) Slang
n.
One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

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:)

Jay

ok. lets see if i can clarify this.

the community managers at macromedia:

myself (flash)
john dowdell (*)
matt brown (dreamweaver)
vernon viehe (coldfusion)
bob tartar (director)

wanted to set up weblogs as a way to better communicate with the community (see my earlier posts on this thread).

so we drove an initiative within macromedia to get permission to do them as an experiment (for the MX launch). we were not sure if anyone would read them, or if they would be useful.

well, they have been very useful and a lot of people have read them (a lot more than we though).

anyways, i maintain my weblog as part of my job at macromedia, but i am not forced / required to do it. but to be honest, i enjoy it and it makes my job easier.

as far as the seattle times article, i don't really know what they based any of their info on since they didn't interview anyone from macromedia.

here are the links to the megnut article(s) in order:

http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?wh...e.inc#20020509
http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?wh...inc#20020509.1

in the first item she is a little critical because we didn't make it clear at first that we were from macromedia. we fixed this as soon as it was brought to our attention.

originally we only expected people in the flash / macromedia community to read the weblogs, and those people would know who we were.

anyways, the second link is an addition she made to the first post on the same day.

however, the settle times reporter didnt bother to mention the second post (or contact anyone from macromedia).

so:

1. we are not required to do these. if you check all of the blogs, you will see some are updated more than others.

2. we are not trying to mislead anyone. it clearly states at the top of my weblog that i am the flash community manager with macromedia.

hope that helps...

mike chambers

[email protected]

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Originally posted by Aria
And no i dont check Blogs -- i dont have time to read the same news stories over and over again :p

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lol - yes you read 1 you read them all.. and follow the link after the blurb back to MM.

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http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?wh...e.inc#20020509
http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?wh...inc#20020509.1
in the first item she is a little critical because we didn't make it clear at first that we were from macromedia. we fixed this as soon as it was brought to our attention.

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Good links to read over.

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From above link:
In reality, their implementation seems a little strange to me -- they've got their community managers blogging on Radio and BlogSpot blogs hosted elsewhere, not on Macromedia.com. In fact there's a quote from vice president in charge of developer relations which states, "Would it have been a true blog if we put it on Macromedia.com? Not really." I don't understand how a blog is considered a blog based on its location (as opposed to its format or content). It seems like a mistake to me to separate the weblogs from the corporate site for two reasons: 1) Macromedia employees are doing the writing, 2) it's hard for people to find them if they're not on Macromedia's site.

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I agree with this - Why are they seperate?

Why not just set something up like http://blogs.macromedia.com - then have a list of the community managers?

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Originally posted by snowdude

Why not just set something up like http://blogs.macromedia.com - then have a list of the community managers?

[/B]

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initially we decided to not host them on macromedia.com for two reasons:

1. we were not sure how long we were going to do them.

2. we wanted to get them up fast, and with all of the MX announcements and releases, we could not get the IT resources to set up a new server in the time frame we needed.

we have been considering moving to macromedia.com, but now we have the problem that so many people / sites / google link to our existing sites and items, that it would break a lot of those links.

mike chambers

[email protected]

fyi:

there is an article on the macromedia weblogs today, talking about weblogs and marketting. you can find a link to it, as well as a small correction at:

http://radio.weblogs.com/0106797/2002/06/17.html#a141

mike chambers

[email protected]

Hi Mike,

this seems to be one of today's best jokes:

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we could not get the IT resources to set up a new server in the time frame we needed.

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I have a pretty good idea about setting up a server running a server OS, and you must have been very demanding then.

Musicman