Macromedia Central Beta 2

http://www.klynch.com/archives/000070.html

Macromedia Central is now into phase two of it's beta cycle. Just wondering if anyone had any plans to build anything for Central using the RIA/OCC approach.

Does anyone have any questions about Macromedia Central &c?

Heres a little information to give you a bit of a backroung on Central if you don't already know what it is:

Presentation:

http://marketing.product.breezecentral.com/p45237277/

What it is:

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/cen...hat_is_it.html

How it works:

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/cen..._it_works.html

DevNet:

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/central/

that presentational on breezecentral.com is simplistic but really explains what central is all about in a way that hasn't come across before.

I like the concept now I understand it more, I like the way the application looks, the tiles on the left are a great idea and encourage people to leave central running as an accessable source of data/information, and the ability to share information across appls running in central is good, but there are a few things I'm still not that convinced about.

the business model is well thought out but a lot of the applications that will be suitable for central will be running web sevices and I'm not convinced yet that web services are going to be a viable revenue stream.

the application interface is quite specific, the tile view, the main window, the components.. MM is obviously hoping that developers will embrace this format so that applications on central have a common look and feel. This is laudible but as a designer/developer (which many flash users are) I'm inclined to feel a bit restricted by this, it's not going to encourage people to push development and function. For coders who hate dealing with design elements it will be a godsend :)

one big factor for the success of central will be the uptake beyond independent developers. While I can see the value in being able to create apps for central that provide me with an easily manageable potential revenue stream, I'm not sure that clients will feel the same way. They talked about a couple of demo clients they've set up, goodbuyer.com or something, but in general I can't see corporate/commercial clients being too excited about providing central with apps.

for example amazon.com could provide a free web service app which allows users to search for products on their site through central (in fact I'm sure an independent developer's already done it), but many companies, especially those who do traditional business, will feel too restricted to deal with central's format, especially when it comes to their payment schema, which I assume is through a MM transaction server (this wasn't elaborated on in the presentation).

we'll see, I do wish it luck and I'll certainly take a look at it when I can get my hands on it, but I think the future for rich flash applications lies in providing online/offline fucntionality connected to websites/businesses that personalise and extend the features available at present on the web. For example, in complex B2B ordering systems, cataloguing, online banking, etc

intyeresting developments though.

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Originally posted by aversion
for example amazon.com could provide a free web service app which allows users to search for products on their site through central (in fact I'm sure an independent developer's already done it)

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:shhh:

Agreed with all your points above. It's going to have to go through it's adoption phase. There have been few ideas floating around various blogs as to what to do with it. Hopefully when the SDK is released to the masses the initiative will be taken up by the developers; showcasing some pretty far-out applications that get the the business' attention. Online / ofline banking integration would be a great port to Central.

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Originally posted by gSOLO_01
Online / ofline banking integration would be a great port to Central.

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That is a great idea. That presentation was poorly put together in my opinion. I have come to expect more from MM. The voice stutters, and the unallighed text blocks reek to me of a product that they are not fully behind. The future does seem fun with it though, but how long will we be facing a "sometimes connected" world? Not long with the new emergence of Bluetooth, high levels of "always on internet", and with new cell computing/wireless it seems as though this is a one version product.

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Originally posted by gSOLO_01
Online / ofline banking integration would be a great port to Central.

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I don't think it would though, I don't think anything that requires that level of security would ever be put through a 3rd party app like central, even if it was 100% secure. I just think corporate applications will, for the most part, remain part of a site or separate app.

central's best bet is to concentrate on web services and developers, which I'm sure is it's market, but it's a niche at best, the real work for flash apps has to be at a corporate level where there's money and function.

we'll see how it takes up.

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Originally posted by skierbit
The future does seem fun with it though, but how long will we be facing a "sometimes connected" world? Not long with the new emergence of Bluetooth, high levels of "always on internet", and with new cell computing/wireless it seems as though this is a one version product.

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Well; this will help us in the conversion. And once were always connceted - the Flash player and Central will already be there waiting.

From FF03 NYC http://www.gregburch.com/blog/archives/000376.php

Norm is showing Macromedia Central. It has a nice new clean interface since hte last time it was shown.

-Single Installation click of applications
-Social Applications
-Pods
-Offline/Online

Pods are a tiled view of useful data from applications. They show up in a console area where you also get notifications from applications etc...

He is now showing a Financial News application. He clicked once and it installed and central launched. He searched for Macromedia in the news and got a bunch of results and added it to favorites and it also showed up in the pod with the top results.

He now launched a Stock Application and played around with it, didn't show much. He confirmed Central is in beta. (Well we all knew that) He said there is an SDK online, don't think its there yet.

pictures dammnit! We want pictures!

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Originally posted by aversion
pictures dammnit! We want pictures!

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Sample apps;

http://www.markme.com/mesh/picts/Fla...s/IMG_1434.jpg

http://www.markme.com/mesh/picts/Fla...s/IMG_1433.jpg

http://www.markme.com/mesh/picts/Fla...s/IMG_1430.jpg

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Originally posted by gSOLO_01
Online / ofline banking integration would be a great port to Central.

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Bad idea. They're using authorization process(es) and they can't even secure the flash player, and I'm supposed to trust them with my bank information too?

no way in hell.

I'm beginning to see more and more that central is not a step forward in flash application design, there's nothing about the actual apps that's new to standalone users, rather it's about the central environment that provides a means of distributing the applications in a way that standardises payment, trial periods, etc.

sorry if it's obvious to others, I'm just thinking aloud.

as I mentioned before somewhere, I'm not sure exactly what kind of market MM expect from this. I'm sure they've done a lot of research into it, but I can only see potential users coming from the type of people who use standalones now to produce small applications, mostly based on web services. I'm not convinced that any corporations would want to produce applications, mostly promotional at this point, for use in central. They're restricted by the environment and association with the central app. So that leaves independent developers coming up with interesting uses for web services etc. Not much of a market me thinks, but maybe I'm missing something.

A lot of the energy in standalones seems to be coming from the ability to produce apps with transparent backgrounds, so people can create cool looking MP3 players, that kind of thing isn't possible with central I assume since the central environment is standardised to a certain extent and, even though some apps may 'breakaway', there are certain restrictions to this.

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Originally posted by gerbick
Bad idea. They're using authorization process(es) and they can't even secure the flash player, and I'm supposed to trust them with my bank information too?

no way in hell.

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yah, this is the other reason I don't see any major commercial or public entities using central for anything.

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Originally posted by aversion
as I mentioned before somewhere, I'm not sure exactly what kind of market MM expect from this. I'm sure they've done a lot of research into it, but I can only see potential users coming from the type of people who use standalones now to produce small applications, mostly based on web services.
... So that leaves independent developers coming up with interesting uses for web services etc. Not much of a market me thinks, but maybe I'm missing something.

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Remember how many of us samll developers were going to get rich developing and selling components for Flash? :rolleyes:

Is Shockmachine really that successful?

Once again it seems that Macromedia is trying to get the developers to bear the burden of making their technology popular while simultaneously screwing them on the other end.

[edit]I mean, "Building engaging applications to engage the end user in a rich media application total interactive experience buzz buzz buzz"[/edit]

Macrosoft=Micromedia i mean Microsoft=Macromedia.

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http://stage4.co.uk/full_story.php?newsID=272

Talking of open standards - how do you see Macromedia's continuing push of Flash as a 'standard' (over html) and now moving into desktop applications with Central?

Well, I've just joined the Macromedia board of directors, so that may tell you something about the importance I place on Macromedia. It's important for Flash to become more open and more standard (even if only to the level of Postscript and Acrobat, which have widely been accepted as standards despite Adobe's ownership, because of Adobe's complete and timely documentation of all new releases).

I find Central fascinating, because I do think that we're deconstructing the browser these days. Central is one of several attempts to take the web apart and put it together in new ways. On Mac OS X, Watson and Sherlock are analogous examples. And of course RSS and related syndication technologies are also deconstructing the web in new ways.

We're entering a new world in which data may be more important than software. The frameworks that enable the manipulation and distribution of that data are yet to be defined. Flash does enable great cross-platform interfaces using a small client footprint (orders of magnitude smaller than Java), so if we can just open up the right kind of innovation and sharing on top of that platform, a lot of great stuff can happen.

It's essential that we keep those new frameworks open and cooperative. I used David Weinberger's wonderful phrase above: "small pieces loosely joined." This is the current architecture of the internet. Tools like Flash and Central are really useful, but they don't currently support that architecture. However, I believe there is an opportunity for them to play better on the Internet, and by doing so, to become even more successful than they already are.

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The biggest problem I feel is that fact that we have seen demos of a Weather Ap, a Stock Ap, and and News Ap...and those are probably the three biggest reasons to use Central, yea I can also see it used as a chat ap, but I really don't know where they are all going with this either.



I also agree, an "Always Connected" world should be a reality within the decade....so I don't know.

Click Me!

I'm not trusting that link gSOLO!

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Originally posted by gasbag15
I'm not trusting that link gSOLO!

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Okay:

http://gsolo.com/blog/archives/000016.cfm

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Originally posted by gSOLO_01
http://www.klynch.com/archives/000070.html

Macromedia Central is now into phase two of it's beta cycle. Just wondering if anyone had any plans to build anything for Central using the RIA/OCC approach.

Does anyone have any questions about Macromedia Central &c?

Heres a little information to give you a bit of a backroung on Central if you don't already know what it is:

Presentation:

http://marketing.product.breezecentral.com/p45237277/

What it is:

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/cen...hat_is_it.html

How it works:

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/cen..._it_works.html

DevNet:

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/central/

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Thanks for the lookup of info :)

There's a screenshot of the latest Central Beta online here:

http://www.oddhammer.com/blog.htm

Bringing up the topic about the bank app again... would you use a flash based bank app in a browser? just like your quicken data is stored on the computer, would you use a Central bank app that allowed you to store the data (wherever). Correct me if I'm wrong, but they're using nothing but ssl for online banking correct?

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Originally posted by gSOLO_01
Bringing up the topic about the bank app again... would you use a flash based bank app in a browser? just like your quicken data is stored on the computer, would you use a Central bank app that allowed you to store the data (wherever). Correct me if I'm wrong, but they're using nothing but ssl for online banking correct?

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I would if I knew that all the data cached on my system was encrypted and password protected, that the connection was SSL, and that I could easily clear all cached data if I wanted to.

I think doing any online banking, or purchasing online contains some risk, so anyone that says "method A" is totally secure is simply in a dream world. So yes, there's probably some risk involved with using Central for such an application.. but there's risk involved in everything.

How secure is Quicken?? How secure is online banking with an old unpatched version of IE 4?? How secure is online banking over a cell phone? How about calling into a banks automated banking system with a 900Mhz analog cordless phone??

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Originally posted by gerbick
Bad idea. They're using authorization process(es) and they can't even secure the flash player, and I'm supposed to trust them with my bank information too?

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Trust whom with your bank information? The Bank? The authorization, authentication and stuff aren’t going on at the Flash level. It's happening through SSL on the server, the backend. Where storing the information offline goes, it'd be the same as downloading a excel, csv or quicken file. This time, instead of opening it in Excel, Notepad or Quicken, you’re opening it with Central. Flash/Central would primarily just be an interface...

What’s new is the online/offline awareness; the ability to interact with other applications &c. A central place to get your stuff done...

http://www.designbin.com/uploadimage/central72903.gif

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Originally posted by gSOLO_01
Trust whom with your bank information? The Bank? The authorization, authentication and stuff aren’t going on at the Flash level. It's happening through SSL on the server, the backend. Where storing the information offline goes, it'd be the same as downloading a excel, csv or quicken file. This time, instead of opening it in Excel, Notepad or Quicken, you’re opening it with Central. Flash/Central would primarily just be an interface...

What’s new is the online/offline awareness; the ability to interact with other applications &c. A central place to get your stuff done...

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And you do know about the IE SSL exploit, right?

I do not trust Macromedia. I don't fully trust Microsoft with important information and protocols.

For once, do some research dude, and drop the fanaticism. I'm being as honest with you as I possibly can. Flash... insecure. IE... insecure. ActiveX... very insecure. There's an exploit for all of the above.

And having it all in a centralized location, means it will possibly become a one-stop location for people to get all of the information they can.

If Macromedia can pass a CERT scan, or it passes the rigors of NSA or CISSP/ICS2, then I'll listen.

Otherwise, it's not gonna be safe.

Do the research.

I'm still unconvinced about this app's purpose or market potential. Online/offline flash apps are nothing new, you've just had to use 3rd party tools to do it, but the ones I've used are very effective.

The whole basis of central's marketing appeal is this centralised base for applications, and I still can't see this appealing beyond the basic web services. There's a lot that can be done with web services, but I don't see a lot of potential in generating enough revenue for MM and developers to support this idea.

MM are taking a big risk pushing this as a portal for flash apps, rather than taking on the development of a use anywhere flash app utility that would give us more scope than the 3rd party tools currently available. One reason this is a big risk is the development of other portals for web services, especially those mooted by players like microsoft. If you were a large corporation or bank interested in producing web apps then wouldn't you look towards something that integrated with IE? I can't see large corps used to using .NET turning to flash and central for their web service based apps...

I hope this does succeed on some level, but MM have done so much to unimpress me this year that I can't see how they'll get this right. As gerbs says security is a major issue with flash, and MM's handling of these problems not exactly inspirational.

worthwhile glance over...

http://www.markme.com/mesh/archives/002978.cfm

New article in The Guardian. Links here:

http://gsolo.com/blog/archives/000020.cfm

Now into Beta 3...

http://www.actionscript.com/archives/00000556.html

When is Central going to be officially released?
Central will be released later this year. "Beta 3 was released today (August 22nd)."

Michael mentioned that Macromedia plans to make the Central players as ubiquitous as the Flash Player. I asked how they planned on doing this.
"The same way we made the Flash player ubiquitous, by providing plenty of developer content." He also mentioned that the player will eventually be downloadable with the Flash Player itself.

Approximately how big do you expect the Central Player to be?
"We want to keep it under 1 megabyte."

Will this presentation be available on Flash Kit’s server?
"No, because the program is still in beta."

Is this competing with Java Webstart?
"Not in any way. Sun is one of our partners and we would certainly not do anything to upset that relationship. They’ve actually seen this product and are very excited about it."

You mentioned that developing non-profit content will be free, but what about money-making content? Will it be free?
Macromedia will take a cut of any money made through Central’s transaction partners.

What platforms are supported?
Central will work on everything except Mac OS 9. There is even a Linux player in the works.