2advanced - hunter hunted?

the other day i was watching cnbc talking about nasdaq and Sun Microsystems & Microsoft... anyway nothing new. what caught my attention was the Sun's logo behind the analyst. top notch work, i thought.

today i entered flashkit after months of flashkeeter inactivity and found the everyday 2advanced designed cool site on the cool sites' board...
i went to their web page and saw it crystal clear.

not saying they ripped anything, but definately there's a great similarity :)
just made me thought...

http://www.digitalismo.net/pruebas/FK/copy.jpg

maybe this opens the issue that perhaps what 2advancers sometimes call ripping can be regarded by others as influence. and viceversa.

dunno, but what's sure is that nobody ( not even 2advanced ) is exempt from doubt.not sure this last phrase is correct hehe :)forgive my english :D

I wouldnt say theres anything unoriginal in the 2advanced logo, if we use this logic then you'd have to reinvent a font for every occasion. any way the only similarity is the font.

hey now that Iv'e looked closer the fonts are placed very similarly....ah well as the saying goes "nothing new under the sun"..:D

Tony

doesn't surprise me. wasn't there a time where Jens Karlsson pointed out that 2A had ripped him before?

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

That's interesting...I have a feeling it's simply a coincidence, though.

I wonder what Sun's reaction would be.

interesting...very interesting

it's part of a font set and i'm sure those two companies aren't the only ones to use that font in their logos.

This ripping stuff if getting ridiculous.

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Originally posted by aversion
it's part of a font set and i'm sure those two companies aren't the only ones to use that font in their logos.

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Really? Forget the "copy" issue, I find it hard to believe that a company the size of Sun would use a publically available font set in their logo...

or am I giving too much credit to how much companies actually care about their logo?

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Originally posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
Really? Forget the "copy" issue, I find it hard to believe that a company the size of Sun would use a publically available font set in their logo...

or am I giving too much credit to how much companies actually care about their logo?

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That's a pretty rough thing to say. I'm sure the designers put a lot of energy into the Sun logo, regardless if it is a font character. And if you look close enough, they are different.

For one thing, the outer shape on the sun "S" continues in a curve, almost like 2 "U"s are put together, whereas the "2" has it's curves on the ends but they are sharp where they would meet except for the negative space.

The inner part of the Sun logo, creates a square, where that is not possible with the round edges on the 2Advanced logo.

Sure, the logos are similar, but that's not to say that either was any easier to make or had less time put into it.

this book had some nice insight into the subject of what most term copying or ripping, explaining the importance of being influenced by others work and emulating it. he shows how books, movies, print ads--just about anything--can be used in the search for creative solutions. Hillman discusses how his company sparks new ideas by sharing inspiration.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...98506?v=glance

i personally liked the book it is written in a 'talking to a friend over a few drinks' kind of way and not meant as a cookbook or a howto.

ripping and inspiration are two different things imho.

Ripping only takes place when actually elements of another design, or the whole design, are lifted or reproduced exactly for use in another context.

Inspiration is where there is an obvious line between one design and another, whether it's intentional or not. Sometimes inspiration flies pretty close to the wind.

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Originally posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
Really? Forget the "copy" issue, I find it hard to believe that a company the size of Sun would use a publically available font set in their logo...

or am I giving too much credit to how much companies actually care about their logo?

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No idea, though I've had corporate clients and to be honest you get to a point where you'll be happy to use anything they react positively to just to get rid of them!

I've seen the font before, it's commercially available. As to whether the font came before the Sun logo or after it I can't say, but it's true there are slight differences between the characters on the two logos so maybe the font was inspired in part by the sun logo, or even inspired by the same thing that inspired the logo designer without being aware of the similarity... maybe it can al be traced back to a flyer from a jazz club in 1947... that was in turn inspired by a tribal brand from kenya...

etc etc.

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Originally posted by sk8Krog
That's a pretty rough thing to say. I'm sure the designers put a lot of energy into the Sun logo, regardless if it is a font character. And if you look close enough, they are different.

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Huh? What's rough? My comment was about a company the size of Sun using a publically available font, no opinion about any designer who may choose to do so, for various reasons. And the logo's different to what? I didn't make any comparison to the 2A ogo.

Two different issues mate. Aversion got my post the right way, and answered accordingly.

And Aversion, I'm very careful about what I term "ripping off". The only thing I would have been surprised with was if Sun had knowingly used a publically available font basically as their logo.

But yes, which came firt - the logo or the font?
(or the chicken or the egg?)

That's a straight out rip. No way did they use the 2 shapes in a completely different way and try get away with it. Ridiculous!

:p

true, they are not exactly the same. but 2advanced site rips are not exactly the same though (colour, proportions, fonts... usually cahnge), but 2advancers call them rips... hmmm just trying to say that not because you change a small corner in the font's character you're reinventing a new logo.

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Originally posted by nayades
true, they are not exactly the same. but 2advanced site rips are not exactly the same though (colour, proportions, fonts... usually cahnge), but 2advancers call them rips... hmmm just trying to say that not because you change a small corner in the font's character you're reinventing a new logo.

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I don't think anyone here is saying that either.

Of the 2advanced rips I've seen almost all of them use exact copies of graphic elements of their sites, I've even seen one that simply put the whole 2advanced site in a frame and put their own contact info at the top!

very interesting.
anyway, Sun came first :)

remember, 2advanced has began as a personal portfolio and bla bla bla.
a personal logo..
it doesn't matter if it's too much inspired or not.

we're not talking about websites. We are talking about just the logo. Since the Sun logo is tilted, 2A might be ok. However, if it has been this long without anyone making a deal about it, I'm sure it's ok.

I would like to hear Sun's take.

geez, the way this board is going, pretty soon we'll be comparing the 2A logo to Coke or Taco bell.

seriously though, anyone can use the same font or similar fonts. That alone doesn't make it a rip. I suppose everyone who uses helvetica is a ripper.

A font does not make a good logo. It's the concept behind it, whether the logo stands for something in the company, or it's been marketed so well that it symbolically represents the company (NIKE).
Conceptually, the SUN logo is much more refined. I'm sure you all noticed that the reason they used those curves is it spells SUN in every direction as well as giving it a very modern look.

Unless i'm mistaken, the 2A logo is designed purely to be aesthetically pleasing with the exception of the "2" being broken into 2 parts. (i could be wrong, but that seems to be the biggest difference between the two). This doesn't make it any less impactful. Much like NIKE, 2A uses their logo on everything they do, website, letterhead, business cards, their door to their offices. It becomes their brand.

But is it a rip of SUN? I mean, c'mon, at it's simplest state, one's a square, the other's a circle!

If you're going to compare logos, why not SUN and Columbia sportswear.
http://www.studiopasarin.com/stuff/suncolumbia.jpg
That one also conceptually can't even touch SUN, however it's much closer than 2A could ever be.

And on a personal note, i've always loved SUN's logo.

Eric

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Originally posted by unrealreality
geez, the way this board is going, pretty soon we'll be comparing the 2A logo to Coke or Taco bell.

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funniest quote in this thread.

however, personally? who cares!?

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Originally posted by nayades
true, they are not exactly the same. but 2advanced site rips are not exactly the same though (colour, proportions, fonts... usually cahnge), but 2advancers call them rips...

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Actually (from what I've seen),

The people from 2A who actually post on the boards (all two - tpnovak and pixelranger - of them?) are smart enough not to say anything unless it's blatant and obvious.

It's the rest of us who like to point out 2A rips that are borderline at best.

Just my opinion, I clearly don't care enough to pay close enough attention to be authoritative on the subject.

thas is just a coincidence

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Originally posted by gerbick
wasn't there a time where Jens Karlsson pointed out that 2A had ripped him before?

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This is true. But, I don't think it's scandalous. Just ironic given how many 2A rips there are out there.

IMO, the logo is co-incidence. How many guitarists use the same riffs that Jimi Hendrix used first? How dull would music be if people had a patent on riffs?

oh well. in the end everybody ends up criticising the post :( :D

everyone leave this thread and continue designing... sheesh...

if more people would quit complaining and actually do something, the world would start turning again (at approximately 7.27E-5 rad/sec) (sorry, had a physics test tonight)