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Hey everyone, I just want to hear people's opinions on this. How many buttons (keys) are people willing to use to play a Flash game? Sure you have your standard "move-with-arrow keys, shoot-with-space bar" games, but what about more complex games? How many and what keys do people prefer to play with? I'm curious since I'm brainstorming for control ideas for the game I'm working on (side scroller shooter).
i say 6 or 7, it also depends on how far away from each other they are
For Flash games, I generally like games only having about three to four buttons besides the control keys (up, down, left, right), so about 6 or 7 (like what slicer4ever said).
Anything more complex then than (Capcom fighters not included), especially if it involves the mouse as well, tends to turn me off. (For example: NextFrame has an excellent looking game Seventh Sky B but I can never remember all the buttons I need to press to play it.)
Often times, I've played Flash games where the author has overcomplicated the control scheme, by adding a button for each attack move for a character, and ruined the game.
(EDIT: Useless note: This is an all NY thread so far... wooooo...)
(EDIT2: I need more sleep...)
My latest game should use about 35 when it's done... it's an RTS, so there's lots of hotkeys and stuff. :P
I prefer playing games that only use the arrow keys and space bar or arrow keys and mouse.
Games that use 1-6 number keys to switch weapons isnt bad.
In my opinion, the less keys the better. What do you want all the keys for?
I think too many buttons can be confusing. Thats why Madness Combat isnt that n00b friendly.
I find the less buttons the better. I believe in a Super Smash Bros style of control. Instead of adding a button for each attack just have 2 or 3 "attack" buttons and have them each perform a different attack based on what arrow keys are pressed at the time. It is even better if you can have "smash" attacks too. That way you can make over 24 attacks off 3 buttons and the arrow keys with almost no learning curve.
Hotkeys are ok as long as you dont need to memorsise them to play.
i use 6 buttons ... similar with direction + fire + bomb
This is enough for me
Less is better. Side scrolling shooter only needs movement keys + action key.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominicaninja
i also only have 10 fingers so no more than that. and thumbs are only for the space bar in my mind
Wow, thanks for the replies. So it seems like 6-7 keys isn't too bad for most people? Tonypa, I WISH my game could be as simple as arrow keys and shoot key (and I agree simple is better like Smash Bros), but what about switching between weapons, and performing special actions like interacting with the background or activating a switch?
As it stands now, I'm using arrow keys for movement, 1 shoot button, 1 jump button, 1 action button (interact with bg), BUT then I also have a button to enter AIM mode to aim in place, AND another button to enter crouch mode, AND I was reserving another button for kick/roll AND at least one button to cycle through weapons. Hehe so lets see, that would be 4 keys for movement + 7 buttons = 11 buttons total!
I'm trying to think of how I can set it up so I can do away with one of these buttons, but I'd welcome any ideas anyone has (crouch button is needed if you want to aim up while crouching).
i got nothing to say i just wanted to keep it an NY thread :O)
Here's the current layout btw (haven't implemented all of them yet):
UP ARROW - aim up
DOWN ARROW - crouch (hold to continue crouching)
LEFT / RIGHT ARROWS - run left / right
D - jump
S - shoot
A - kick (DOWN + A = roll)
Z or X - cycle through weapons / inventory
SPACE BAR - action key
SHIFT - enter Aim mode
C - enter Crouch mode
Any ideas are welcome.
OK, me as "less buttons is better" would try something like this:
*no special action key, use shoot key when on correct place. Like when standing in front of door and pressing shoot key opens the door.
*1 key to shoot(shift), 1 for changing modes (space), 4 to move
*shoot key + up arrow = aim up
*shoot key + down arrow = aim down
*shoot key + left or right arrow = kick
*shoot key + left or right arrow + down arrow = roll
*pressing modes key will cycle through normal mode and weapon select mode
*in weapon select mode use arrow keys to cycle through weapons and shoot key to select
There, only 6 instead of 12 :)
What if you are standing by a switch / lever but want to shoot an oncoming enemy? It would be frustrating to have to find a spot elsewhere so you won't activate the switch by mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypa
Actually that gives me an idea. Hold space and cycle through weapons with left and right arrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypa
So how would you shoot straight while crouching?Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypa
What if you want to run and shoot? So left + shoot would run left and shoot. I'm thinking maybe do something like Metal Slug and only allow kick from close range if you press shoot...Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypa
Thanks for the ideas Tonypa!. Any others?
If your market is the Casual Games audience, then mouse + mouse button is it.
Ok, I forgot one thing that ticks me off. Never use a letter key for shooting. It really pushes my buttons. Space is like the universal "shoot" button and i find it endlessly annoying to find that its "a" or "x" or "z" or anything else. Space is in the perfect position and is easy to use.
I think we are on the right path here with you shooter control scheme. Using combinations of buttons instead of a whole new button works wonders when your trying to make a game easy to play. I don't suggest performing different attacks based on proximity of the target though, it takes away from feeling in "control" and makes it seem a bit more like button mashing.
How about "smashing" side and space does a kick and just normal pressing space shoots.
An action key is ok seperate as long as it wont be hard to find in a hurry, I would suggest shift myself although control may work too.
Changing weapons could be done by holding down the action key and pressing left/right. I would also add "alternative" keys such as z and x as well as the 1,2,3,4,5... keys so that players in a hurry or who are a little more adept can take advantage of them.
I would suggest against using two arrow buttons together to perform a move as it may be a little awkward. Perhaps a double tap left/right rolls? again, for rolling you may want to use a/s or c/v as a secondary choice if someone feels its easier.
Crouching is generally ctrl but if it is possible holding down the down arrowkey would be nicer.
This system uses a base of 7 keys and should be pretty intuitive.
I dont like space to be shoot, if it possable i always want the mouse to be shoot. I tend to get my buttons mixed up if a shoot button is near them other wise im fine.Quote:
Ok, I forgot one thing that ticks me off. Never use a letter key for shooting. It really pushes my buttons. Space is like the universal "shoot" button and i find it endlessly annoying to find that its "a" or "x" or "z" or anything else. Space is in the perfect position and is easy to use.
Hey 69117, you made some really good points there. I decided to trash the "using same shoot key in close range to do special attack" idea.
I realize Space Bar is very accessible and would make a good shoot key, but try holding down the UP + LEFT arrow keys and shooting with SPACE BAR. The result? No good :thumbsdow . However the 'S' key lets you shoot in any direction using any two arrow keys simultaneously :thumbsup: . Another reason is (maybe cause I play console games) I like all my buttons close together. The way I have it right now, 'A' 'S' 'D' & 'C' are all close together, and you can easily reach SPACE with your left thumb and SHIFT is reachable by left pinky. Often there's other keys between SPACE and CONTROL like the dreadful ALT key and sometimes Windows key so I'm trying to stay away from that for the main keys.
About changing weapons / items, I think I came up with the perfect solution (see updated controls below). I like your idea of using the number keys. I'm planning on allowing the player to save their favorite weapons to number keys for quick access.
The only time the player will use two arrow keys together is when aiming diagonal. I think a double tap for a roll will most likely cause players to often roll by mistake so that won't work. For crouching, you can hold DOWN arrow key, but when you release it, you'll stand up again. The reason I need a key for crouch mode is because it allows you to stay crouched, and walk around while crouched (with decreased speed) as well as aim in any direction.
Well, here's the slightly updated Control Scheme I came up with:
:doughnut: Movement (right hand on keyboard):
UP ARROW - aim up
DOWN ARROW - crouch
LEFT / RIGHT ARROWS - run left / right
:doughnut: Main Keys (left hand on keyboard):
D - jump
S - shoot
A - use selected item / secondary weapon
C - enter Crouch mode
(tap C while running or crouch-walking to roll)
:doughnut: Special:
SHIFT - enter Aim mode
SPACE BAR - kick
(special attack if use from behind unsuspecting enemy)
UP / DOWN ARROW + SPACE BAR - action
(i.e.: climbing ladders, activating switches, hiding in places)
CONTROL - next weapon
CONTROL + UP / DOWN ARROW - cycle through items / secondary weapons
CONTROL + LEFT / RIGHT ARROW - cycle through weapons
So that's 4 main keys, and 3 special keys in addition to the 4 arrow keys. Hehe, looks like that's still 11, but I think it's more intuitive now. Does anyone else think this would work?
I realize I'd be alienating the casual "mouse-only" gamer, like Ray Beez mentioned, but I'm hoping the game will have enough elements to make people want to play it. Plus, beginners can just use the good ol' jump and shoot keys if they just wanna have some quick fun! :)
Here is a screenshot of what I'm working on so you can get an idea of what type of character the player controls. He's crouching in this image (player controls the one in black!). Btw, he can hang onto ledges, but don't worry, no extra buttons involved hehe! Oh and don't mind the watermark.
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7...nshot015rr.jpg
Hey, this looks very promising. If you have some kind of 3D effect involved int eh background this could be a very highclass game. Also the characters look very nice. Would be nice to see a playable alpha version :)
Too many buttons to me is 6+, not counting the cursor keys.
A game using the keyboard only should use the cursor keys for control and conveniently use asd,zxc as they are located on a nice distance making it comfortable to play.
Of course, the less buttons used, the better. I'm working on a game using the cursor keys and 1 fire key. The game uses a 8 directional movement controlling system, pressing one direction + the fire key will perform a action. Then there is also a mouse pointer in the game which you move around to buy stuff etc, it too is controlled with the cursor keys+fire key.
Thanks jebrael. No 3D effect in that background though, sorry! Maybe in certain levels who knows. I really would love to post a playable version (especially to see what fps people are getting, and how people like the controls), but I'm paranoid with all the Flash thievery going around. I'll most likely post a clip of it here when it's a little more impressive to look at.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebrael
IronClaw: I agree, I don't mind 4-6 keys not counting the arrow keys, but I'm not sure how everyone else feels about it.