http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/34/3
read it, think, and if you have sold a game to miniclip recently, think again ...
nGFX
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http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/34/3
read it, think, and if you have sold a game to miniclip recently, think again ...
nGFX
That quote scares me to death, especially since I don't have time to work on my own games very much. I'm lucky if I get a few hours in on the weekends.Quote:
"What the current thinking is going to do, if it continues, is annihilate any nascent sense of community in this field. Ask yourself this: If you had a good original game idea right now, mocked up in a prototype form but not completed, how comfortable would you be posting it in the Indie Gamer forums? Would you suspect - rightly - that rather than getting constructive feedback and criticism, you'd instead be giving a bunch of people a head start in ripping you off?"
This article also proves why I don't have a head for casual portal game design. While I don't mind reusing an engine's functionality, I don't see the point in making the exact same game over and over again, and MAYBE improving it a little bit each time. To me, that is truly boring, and uninteresting. I have enough trouble finishing a game concept of mine, if someone posts a demo which is similar to it. My game concept instantly become uninteresting because someone else is doing it.
I've seen games on a few game portals where someone takes their successful game and rereleases it with only the graphics altered. To me, it's just the same engine over and over again, and the author never really improves any of the flaws in the system or tries anything new or different.
-pXw
You quoted the exact same paragraph that caught my eye too.
I am in the planning stages right now to enter this "Casual Games" market as well. (I've already dabbled in it independantly, but never to the full extent of a "Popcap" or "Gamehouse") and I can honestly say that I would NOT post my progress here or anywhere else for exactly those reasons. It's a shame not to get feedback and tips, but also just a reality of the industry.
Story:
Back in 2000 I posted my game "Spore Cubes" here in Flashkit's arcade (yeah, Flashkit used to have an "arcade"). I posted it with the purpose of showing it off and getting some exposure. It was in the top 10 games for a while and even hit #1. Within a few months later, Gamehouse released "Collapse"!
Yeah makes you think twice about posting alpha's and beta's but its good to get that sort of feedback before you release something. To bad you cant copyright a game idea.
It just shows there is money to be made with casual games. As long most games where done by individuals or small teams they didnt bother with cloning for the very reason - cloning is not interesting and not fun. Now that big game companies are producing casual games for money they are doing it for only one reason and that is to earn money. Its exactly same why we almost never see new ideas in big games. Just how many games released last year were innovative? Lets say 5 from thousands of titles. And none of the innovative games sell too well.
People want to buy same old stuff over and over again, so game companies give them same old stuff. "The Top Selling PS2 Games of 2005":
http://ps2.ign.com/articles/684/684395p1.html
You wont find any really new game ideas in top 50. Its all same stuff that has been made for last 20 years.
"I've seen games on a few game portals where someone takes their successful game and rereleases it with only the graphics altered. To me, it's just the same engine over and over again, and the author never really improves any of the flaws in the system or tries anything new or different."
Oops, that'll be me :)
I have no qualms about posting wip here, it's what this place is for. I think I've only ever done one or two fairly original games ( Not counting the Jamie Kane stuff, but they're not strictly games as such ) and I honestly can't see that changing any time soon.
I am one of those people in the article who takes an old genre and re-works it I'm afraid to say, and yep it does mean that gameplay ( Development wise ) isn't as big an issue as with a totally original game.
As olli pointed out so well, the miniclip stats are huge, something to keep very much in mind when looking to sell / licence or even sponsor a game ( And not just with them ).
Squize.
yup. not to mention that if you show YOUR version (which might have been there earlier), it feels like a "ripoff".Quote:
My game concept instantly become uninteresting because someone else is doing it.
eek. that's bad.Quote:
hit #1. Within a few months later, Gamehouse released "Collapse"!
yep, that might be the reason why so many "professionals" left the board or only post a "release" msg ...Quote:
Yeah makes you think twice about posting alpha's and beta's but its good to get that sort of feedback before you release something.
the question is: is it your idea or something that has been done 20 year earlier? think about it and you'll come to the result that not many really "new" games have been released since pong.Quote:
To bad you cant copyright a game idea.
nGFX
Let me clarify, I'm only really talking about games done in Flash. You base your stuff on old C64 games, and let's face it, how many casual gamers are hardcore enough to remember or - uhm - (How should I put it to not get censored...) locate a C64 and play the games there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Squize
If it's new to them, then it's a new idea.
Here's an example of what I mean:
I have yet to see a remake of Elevator Action in Flash. If I see someone make Elevator Action in Flash, I don't think "Hey, that's just Elevator Action!", I usually think, "Now why the heck didn't I think of that?" and if the game is good then "Nice show!"
HOWEVER, if the same author then takes the exact SAME engine and releases "Space Elevator Action", "Medival Elevator Action", "Elevator Action 2!", "Love in an Elevator", "Christmas Elevator Action", "British Elevator Action", "Dance Dance Elevator Action" with nothing really changed but the sprites to the same game portal(s) (and with in a short time period), I'll just shrug my shoulder. Since games are a hobby for me, I'd get bored doing that.*
This also doesn't include people who take an idea which is everywhere (like a snake game) and do something unique with it (Like mBenny's Serpent). Or do a better looking and better playing version of a game which is everywhere (Like typical Breakout games vs Inkanoid (Both games named can be played on http://www.pnFlashgames.com, by the way)).
I think it's even worse to copy a simple idea that is everywhere already. How many clones of Boulder Dash exist in Flash? Bejewelled?
-pXw
*Of course, if someone comes to me with money and asks me to make a game like such-and-such game, I'd glad discuss stuff with them. ;)
If people haven't seen it, then it's new to them. For example, I love JBJ Sisters! I think it's a really fine game and to me, it was a fresh and new. Yep, it's based on a older game, but I didn't know that when I played it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nGFX
great. NOW you spoilt my next game ...Quote:
I have yet to see a remake of Elevator Action in Flash.
not as many as you believe, but bejewelled is ALL over the place (even i can remember about 10 different versions on a single "unamed" game portal)Quote:
How many clones of Boulder Dash exist in Flash?
nGFX
I don't think there's any great difference between copying an old 8 bit game and a popular flash game. It's still plagarism even if less people know about it.
I have to agree with Squize on this one. Hand on my heart I don't think I can point to a single game I've done as being original. They're all just different takes on other games if not direct reskins. For my job I would for an online agency and when they don't just say redo X game with the clients brand they always want game ideas that you can readily show off, and that means established games that we know work. (I just did a clone of boulder dash for a client's site btw)
As to posting stuff on this forum, if I had a great, fantastic new idea there's no way I would put it up here before it was finished and up. I've actually been a bit queesy about posting up any WIP since a beta version of Alpha Force (a generic side scrolling shooter game I did a while back) was taken and spread around the rip off sites.
Willoughby stops making his Elevator Action clone... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by nGFX
My issue isn't really plagarism per se. As nGFX noted, there are no real original gameplay ideas per se anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by happinessSam
I just think this kind of thing adds to the "Flash games sucks" attitude I've run into with a lot of indie game developers with use other languages. Hell, the IT group at the College I went to said that Actionscript wasn't a real programming language.
As I noted before, if a client told me to make Pacman, I'd make Pacman. But I'm also the type of guy who'd attempt to use the infamous Hollywood combo speech. "Well, what if we add jumping and other power-ups.. it would be like Pacman meets Super Mario Brothers!" (Depending upon time and budget range...)Quote:
(I just did a clone of boulder dash for a client's site btw)
I'll fully admit, I was mostly ranting about my personal preferences when I'm producing an independent game (which I might try to license to various portals). I just don't have the mindset to recycle my work and only change the graphics. If games were my primary source of income, I'd probably change my tune...
Yeah. I'm a bit worried about that happening to me. There is a genre of game which I love to death and so far, only one other person has even come close to creating a game in Flash for that genre.Quote:
As to posting stuff on this forum, if I had a great, fantastic new idea there's no way I would put it up here before it was finished and up. I've actually been a bit queesy about posting up any WIP since a beta version of Alpha Force (a generic side scrolling shooter game I did a while back) was taken and spread around the rip off sites.
HaHAHAHAH!!!! Thanks!! I needed that!Quote:
Originally Posted by WilloughbyJackson
I know the game I'm working on is going to incorporate a mesh of elements from different games I've played before. But I believe (and hope) it'll feel original overall in the end. Enough for people to remember it.
Just to temper the feelings in this thread though... Let's keep in mind that cloning is nothing new.
Take for example Pong. There were dozens and dozens of knock-offs within the year it was released. Even Atari milked it with versions like "Doctor Pong", "Pong in a Barrel", etc.
Around 1978, space shooters were all the craze. With the exception of the notable successes like Space Invaders, Galaxian and Galaga (and less popular Pheonix, Gorf, etc) there were DOZENS and dozens of derivative arcade shooters. (Ever heard of Cosmic Monsters? Cosmic Gorilla? Magical Spot?) They were all "move your ship and shoot targets" games.
PacMan comes along and all of a sudden you get a bunch of maze games. Donkey Kong brought us "climb and platform jump" and then all of a sudden you had a bunch similar games. Miner 2049'er, Jumpman, Mr Robot, etc were all inspired by DK. Heck you can even see DK influences in Burgertime.
Speaking of C64 games, Spin Dizzy was a clone of Marble Madness. Pogo Joe was a clone of Q*Bert.
But let's also consider that this trend is not even exclusive to the video game industry. Any successful product will see knock-offs. It's one reason why manufacturers have a hard time coping with manufacturing costs. You can't beat the prices if you have it made in China, but at the same time, you face a high risk of counterfeits and knock offs of your product suddenly appearing all over the rest of the world.
Tamagotchi. Bratz dolls. Robot pets. Designer clothing. EVERYTHING gets knocked off if it's succesful. Look at how secretive Nintendo is about its products.
So back to us and games. The issue is that it's SO easy and quick to knock-off a casual game. Average dev time is anywhere from 2 to 6 months. Compare that to the years that go into a console game. If you make games for money, you should be concerned. If you don't, then no big deal.
~Ray
But its also easy and quick to do completely original game. It would take exactly same time, yet we dont see many.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Beez
Not true. It takes alot less time to copy an idea that's been done, than to work out the details of a truly unique concept. There are certain "magic formulas" to what makes a game fun that many people just can't come up with on their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypa
Think about it. If you're in it for the money, but you'll need to invest 2 months of your time, plus 2 months of a graphics artist's time, that's what, anywhere from $16,000 to $20,000 worth of labor. You can either invest that into a proven formula (with added twists) or risk it on a concept that might fall flat on its face. (Or for that matter, because it's a new idea, your dev time will probably double, since you will need to design and re-design the concept until it truly is a fun game people will want to play. Suddenly your $20,000 budget is $40,000, or $60,000... ! Or you might be $20,000 in the hole and find out your concept just plain sucks.)
(I'm not saying I support only cloning, but these are the realities of why original ideas are rare).
I'm much more positive I think, (but I'm pretty new to game-development, maybe not so crumpy).
I think in the future game-development will become an art-form even to music, painting, movies etc nowadays. Why? Interactivity between public and art becomes more and more a must today. Computergames are the best example of interactivity between a player and the visions of an artist.
Gamedevelopment is a child if you compare it to old men like music, movies and art. I'm almost sure still there's room for Elvis Presleys, John Lennons and Piet Mondriaans to stand up in the near future to come up with break-through ideas on game-development. There will be a lot of clones too, but isn't that the same in every scene of art?
Another thing is new technologies, how do you react to those? With the new webcam-features in flash8 you can create an eyetoy: Not yet really inspiring to me, but I don't see revolutionary ideas with it either untill now.
The mouse is a nice example: You can't compare the mouse with a joystick or a keyboard , a mouse does a thing that really differs (It's a real precise instrument). Every 2 weeks I find a flashgame on the web that does something new with mouse movement.(Well, that's in my opinion)
Innovations in technology will come, and you have to jump into it.
Clones will always be around too. I mean, look how many games are "GTA meets" whatever or "Gritty Urban Themed" nowadays. With mainstream games costing thousands of dollars to make and market, people are less willing to take risks (I.E. be more original) because it could spell disaster. Look at poor Majesco Games! They produced the very original (in execution and character design at least) and VERY excellent Psychonauts but it didn't sell very well. A friend of mine said the same thing about that game he which says about most Nintendo games, "It looked childish..." Whatever happened Games For All Ages?
SUPPORT BLUE SKIES GAMING! ;)
Anyhow, clones are much easier to do, HOWEVER, if you program the game right, you can reuse engines without much cloning.
Squize could probably give us more information about this but as far as I know Static Shock is based on the same engine as the Shoot the Hearts game (which is..of course.. the most perfect game in the world Defender.*)
-pXw
* Squize's words about Defender. Some opinions may differ...
"Pazhitnov created Tetris with the help of Dmitry Pavlovsky and Vadim Gerasimov in 1985. The game, first available in the Soviet Union, appeared in the West in 1986. The Soviet bureaucracy licensed and managed Tetris, and advertised it with the slogan "From Russia with Love". Because he was employed by the Soviet government, Pazhitnov did not receive royalties." (source:Wikipedia)
I wonder if anyone knows if Pazhitnov cares about this, or is he just a proud man?
I would be a proud man I guess.
I hate money getting involved with art, and the same I think about game-development.
I used to play in a punkband, we were one of the fastest bands in teh world, we spreaded a political message against this capitalistic system we're living in.
We are globally known, sold more than 30.000 copies of vinyl, and overall it costed us thousands of euros to achieve this, we never made any profit.
We reached our public and I never doubted asking more money. And It felt good.
Why am I telling this? Because I would love to see flashkitforums filtering the words:cost, money, dollar, how much, benefit, etc.etc. for the sake of creating without any other pressure than the sake of creating.
<High fives willough> There's the love right there
Id like to quote from a great book by Paul Arden... Chapter called 'Do not covet your ideas'
"...people are secretive with their ideas. 'Don't tell them thet, they'll take the credit for it.'
The problem with hoarding is you end up living off your reserves. Eventually yo'll become stale.
If you give away everything you have, you are left with nothing. This forces you to look, to be aware, to replenish.
Somehow the more you give away the more comes back to you.
Ideas are open knowledge. Don't claim ownership.
They're not your ideas anyway, they're someone else's. They are out there floating by on the ether.
You just have to put yourself in a frame of mind to pick them up."
[m]
Nice quote [m].
"Squize could probably give us more information about this but as far as I know Static Shock is based on the same engine as the Shoot the Hearts game (which is..of course.. the most perfect game in the world Defender.*)"
Yep, Static is a re-skin of Heart Attack. Still took a fair bit of work though, it had a lot more love added and also a ton of animation a la dayDream.
Game play wise I don't think we altered too much, collecting the circuits ( Hearts ) instead of being able to only collect them when a baddie has dropped them.
( Actually, based on Dropzone which in turn was based on Defender. Dropzone is a perfect example of someone taking a game they love, and adding all the other little things they think would make it better, and making it, well, better :) ).
My cheekiest re-skin is
MJ-1912
http://www.pnflashgames.com/store/pr...9&cat=3&page=1
From MJ-12
http://www.pnflashgames.com/store/pr...8&cat=3&page=1
In my total defence, 1912 was only meant to be a one week only limited edition remix, just a slight break down in communication between Lee and myself.
There is actually a JBJ Sisters Milk-It mix which hasn't seen the light of day yet. I pretty much pulled the piss there too :)
Ray, I think Spindizzy being a marble madness clone is a bit harsh. It's amazing looking back at the games right at the start in the early 80's, just every arcade game was copied wholesale without any thought to licence ( Like all the tetris and pac man clones in Flash, in those days it was everything. Untold Scramble, Frogger and Donkey Kong clones ).
Squize.
You might be interpretting "clone" to mean "badly made" (?), but that's not the case. SpinDizzy IS a MM clone. It's just well made and was successful. Just like how Zuma IS a clone of PuzzLoop, but I enjoy Zuma alot more than I do Puzzloop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squize
Clone != bad game
Oh man, there is a LONG and complex story around Tetris, and let me tell you, Alexi Pajitnov did not walk away with pride. (ON a side note, last i heard, Alexi works for MSN Games. He designed Hexic)Quote:
Originally Posted by walnoot
I think most people do, but unless you have a friend who will let you live in his basement and borrow his computer equipment, what can you do? I know I have a mortgage and bills to pay, so money HAS to be part of the equation. It's just how the world works. Lucky for me I have the capacity to make Flash be what I do for a living.Quote:
I hate money getting involved with art, and the same I think about game-development.
I know many have pipe dreams of "free societies" where you can do what you love and not have money be part of the equation, but the realism of such a society is that it would be full of freeloaders, thieves and anarchy. The percentage of the population that has the intelligence and perseverence to do things for the sake of doing them is very very tiny, and I think you'd quickly find that the majority would take over, start killing each other, including that tiny majority who wish to live making their "art". You'd find yourself not living your art every day, but fighting for survival.
The only way you can truly make games as "art", and not worry about cash would be to do so under government or private art grants. But hell, even then you'd be under pressure from some group, no?
Sorry to take this thread off on a tangent, it's just that I honestly believe that Spindizzy isn't a clone ( And I don't mean that in a negative way, referring back to Dropzone again, that's a clone of Defender but it rocks big time ) of MM.
http://www.gamebase64.com/oldsite/ga..._gyroscope.htm
Now that's a clone, I feel Spindizzy is far enough removed from MM to be it's own game. More than likely inspired by MM, but really far removed.
And on with the thread :)
Squize.
I AGREE!!! :p That Gyroscope game is the one I was thinking of. Sorry for the confusion with game titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squize
Ya thats really scary, I finally finished my first game that is pretty good. Its actually really good considering its my first game, alot better then these dodge the maze with youre mouse first game posts you see. I was going to post it and get some feedback but now that dosnt sound so fun.Quote:
What the current thinking is going to do, if it continues, is annihilate any nascent sense of community in this field. Ask yourself this: If you had a good original game idea right now, mocked up in a prototype form but not completed, how comfortable would you be posting it in the Indie Gamer forums? Would you suspect - rightly - that rather than getting constructive feedback and criticism, you'd instead be giving a bunch of people a head start in ripping you off?
I was also wondering, who sends games to these portals anyways?? Seriously, why would you give youre game to NG for a lousy 250$ and maybe some dumb t-shirt. I dont see how so many flashers sell them selves short like that. Maybe its because people dont know what else to do with there flash to make some money. Someone needs to come out with a big popular site that will pay good money for nice original games, that you cannot submit to any other site w/o logos ect. ect. Oh btw, if there is one of these let me know! =)
I wouldn't call Newgrounds a game portal. It started as a content portal, hosting Flash movies (mostly animation...generally with sex, violence, drugs, FDA or what not in it). It gave artists recognition and a chance to reach a very large (but fickle) audience. The payment stuff was added just recently (probably because Tom is starting to make a profit on the sucker). I still don't see the money offer as the point of Newgrounds, it is more like icing on the cake. I still know several artist who host on Newgrounds because when they tried to host their cartoons on their own site, they got hit with a huge bill. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by imjoedaddy
Also, at least Newgrounds content is provided by the authors, and it is not filled with stolen content. (Unlike some other portals I can name but won't)
It's up to you. If I have a finished project, I'd show it here, no problem. It still takes time for people to "make a clone" of something. Since I have little time to work on stuff, it often takes me months to complete something which would have taken days if I was just working on it 8 hours a day (like my real job). So that's the only reason I'm concerned. Otherwise, I wouldn't really care as much.Quote:
Ya thats really scary, I finally finished my first game that is pretty good. Its actually really good considering its my first game, alot better then these dodge the maze with youre mouse first game posts you see. I was going to post it and get some feedback but now that dosnt sound so fun.
-pXw
Maybe after I figure out a few bugs, add a nice intro screen, figure out a high score list, and all that good stuff ill post it.
:) hehe, i always do the same ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Beez
back to clones:
a quick glance at my game collection reveals about
-45 direct q-bert clones
-120 pac man rip offs
... and so on and these are c64 games only
though, not all of them where commercial ones. well. while writing i can see some similarities between the c64 indie games and flash games (although there is much more crap made with flash)
nGFX
That's why i always say that the most important thing in the game is a story. You can expose engine to public in early alpha but w/o the story it will be one more engine and nothing more. When the game is complete and implements all the elements of the story it is very difficult to clone it, cause you can copyright game environement (which others calls the WORLD). That what was done with AD&D for example. You can create similar game but you cant use the same story/ world. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan2001
I disagree with that statement. I saw a lot of new fresh ideas in casual games market during first two month of 2006. I can give you a few examples:Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypa
Bola
Trilinks
WarBears
Ninjaman
Who is left? I see the same ppl here, several new guys and all oldies in the place. Anybody missed?Quote:
Originally Posted by nGFX
:)
True... true... but did you think why its happens this way? Because someone took old 20 years idea and brought it to new environement. I'm really sick of games made exactly as the old ones (i mean using the same gfx, story and etc). If I need to play old DOS game or old C64 game I'm going to get emulator and run an original one. The big mistake here is to get old game idea and make it as as in Flash w/o bringing anything new in it. That's makes me sick guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by WilloughbyJackson
Exactly - thats approach i'm talking about :)Quote:
Originally Posted by WilloughbyJackson
You can - that answer lies in quality. I didn't see any China based web design company which works on the level of 2Advanced for example. Therefore if the customer needs something similar to 2Advanced product he'll never go to China market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Beez
To a company or individual?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Beez
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by walnoot
2Advanced ? *shudder*
np Ray, I'm just really anal when it comes to games, memory like a steel trap, but can't remember my gf's birthday. Geek memory I believe it's called :)
I can't understand this current wave of paranoia here about showing proof of concept / beta games.
I can think of one occasion when someone had an idea taken, but to be fair he beta'd it and then didn't touch it for a couple of months ( And it was a very simple concept ).
If you all think how long your last game took to make. What are the chances that someone will see a beta of yours here, be currently between projects, and manage to rip it off before you complete it yourself ? Kinda low.
The most likelyhood is that you'll finish your game, get it out there but without a huge amount of exposure and then someone will clone it with improved graphix / sfx etc. but why even worry about that ?
Squize.
You too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Squize
:)
It's not paranoia mate, just ppl wants 15 minutes of gloryQuote:
Originally Posted by Squize
:)
not all of them are new, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Helmsman
bola for instance is a usual "swap 2 to get 3 in a row" (bejeweled, jewelquest ...)
ninjaman is a (very well done) game like "ninja" (c64)
you get the point. if i dig deep enough i will find a similar version of all games above (ok, maybe not trilinks ;) )
mhm. true, at least nobody i *miss*Quote:
Originally Posted by The Helmsman
2advanced *shudder*Quote:
Originally Posted by The Helmsman
*sigh* and i thought only i have this kind of "selective" memoryQuote:
I'm just really anal when it comes to games, memory like a steel trap, but can't remember my gf's birthday. Geek memory I believe it's called
nGFX
Man! I'm horribly jealousy I didn't start this [DISC] thread.
Unfortunately, most of my ideas are very much connected to the gameplay... I could release "Dreamcrushers" with just the beta stuff I have for it right now and I'M SURE everyone would understand the story and idea. (i.e. Insane Rampage clone...)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Helmsman
Also, I am starting to think graphics are more important than anything else in Flash (and will start a disc thread about that sometime). I've seen enough half baked games with so-so gameplay get really popular because they look neat, awesome, cool, funky fresh.
I've talked to a lot of casual gamers now who have never owned or played anything before SNES or even PSOne. They also don't want to waste time downloading the E word and looking the R word (especially since it is not. A lot of people haven't played the classics, and I'm all for them being remade into Flash... ONCE...NOT 100 TIMES OVER AND OVER AGAIN!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Helmsman Again
You won't see me doing it (unless I'm getting paid too), but I have no problem with people who do.
Also, I was mostly refering to someone who creates something like "Metal Gear Elevator Action" which plays like the original but looks insanely different and has all the blood and cursing to make it number one at Newgrounds. ;)
A very important question, did they get paid for them? Because if they did, more power to them, but as far as I know, some of them were someone's efforts released by love. (WarBears, for example. Great freakin' game, but it had to be moved from his own website to Newgrounds because so many people were playing it...I've seen it on a Japanese link site and 2channers can kill your bandwidth like NOBODIES business...)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Helmsman Once More
Then ignore it all...that's what I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by walnoot
As I said before, for me, it's mostly a part of my "motivate Willoughby to complete a bunch of no-pay game stuff for 2006" plan... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Squize
I wish I had a gf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squizebabe
OH WAIT! I'M MARRIED.* :yikes:
-pXw
* The following was a dramatization of Willoughby's bad memory. Had this been an actual case of Willoughby's bad memory, he'd just forget the exact date of his anniversery...again...
One of the only flash game I can think of in the last couple of years that stuck me as being slightly original was Jack Russell (whether it was original or I just haven't seen the game it was a copy of is another matter), and within 10 days someone else had taken the mechanics and created another game, though at least he credited jack russell for the idea.
10 days.
That could easily be the time that it would take to get a game from beta to release, and before you've released your game someone releases the version they copied from your beta and everyone thinks that your game is the clone. That would annoy me. (Again I shouldn't act too holier than thou. I sent it round my office, and I was recently asked to do a time estimate for making a version of it :zombie: )
This only really matters it's the game idea that is the most important thing.
For someone like me where most of my games come from WilloughbyJackson's pacman on steroids mentality it's not so important. The reason I dont really like posting betas is more for fear that someone will steal the swf and host it (and for work stuff my company won't let unfinished stuff out of the office) than that someone will steal the idea. Since the idea is usually already stolen.
It would be interested to see what would happen if the first person who made bejewled (is that the original verison?) started sueing people like Nintendo did over tetris 10 years back. Does anyone know about the legality of this kind of thing?
althought it is nearly the same source. (sorry, couldn't resist) the similarity of the menu was to close to be a ripoff ... it's just a reskin.Quote:
Originally Posted by happinessSam
(don't get me wrong here folks, i LOVE those games) i guess one example for that could be orsinal - all cute, all nice and shiny, but for me as "experienced, longtime gamer (since the first tv-pong)" they are (sorry again) just little "30sec of fun" games. nothing that really satisfies me longer than the first level. but i must admit, i know way too many games (like squize) to not spot the original or even know the first version.Quote:
Originally Posted by WilloughbyJackson
as has been said before, there is a LONG *sad* story behind tetris.Quote:
Originally Posted by happinessSam
bejeweled may have been the first successfull flash version, but i have played at least one "swap 2 to create 3" games on the c64.
and if you look close, you can spot the tetris beneath it ...
so first there was tetris, the first slightly modified gameplay may have been columns (i know it from sega's game gear) and now modifie the gamplay a bit more and you have bejeweled ...
nGFX
I wasn't talking about web design, I was making an analogy to manufacturing of actual goods. If you have a toy idea, and you have it made in china for pennies on the dollar, the risks of your toy's molds and concept being sold off and knocked off are very high.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Helmsman
My point was that other industries face the exact same problem.
For a team. If you want to compete at the level of quality of the games that currently sell big in the casual market (Popcap, Gamehouse, etc) you need 2 to 6 months, depending on the type of game you are making. And this is considering at least 2 people (1 artist + 1 coder) though realistically you'll also need someone for sound/music, and testing.Quote:
(Ray Beez): Originally Posted by Ray Beez
Average dev time is anywhere from 2 to 6 months.
To a company or individual?
I'll let you know in about 2-3 months if my estimate is right. ;-)
I thought I already posted about this in this thread, but I think it may have been in a different thread. YOU CANNOT COPYRIGHT A GAME IDEA. Nor can you patent it. This has already been proven in court back with "Capcom VS Data East" when Data East copied Street Fighter II. Capcom lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by happinessSam
The Nintendo suits you are remembering had nothing to do with suing a "cloner". It had to do with a big old mix-up regarding what company had the official license to Tetris. Long story short, it was determined Nintendo had signed the contracts first, so Atari (Tengen) had to stop selling their version.
I would imagine it MIGHT be possible to patent aspects of a truly unique gameplay design, but the patent process is so slow and costly, by the time you get your patent granted, years will have gone by.