Green-ness

My wife's been on a huge green kick the past few months, and I know it's the right thing to do, but I cringe every time she reads about a way we can be more green that is going to be more work for me...

I've grown a little garden the past three years and we enjoy quite a bit of veggies out of it and, whatever we can't eat, we give away to our neighbors...she suggested we (I) try to grow ALL of our own food. That would mean a MUCH larger garden, LOTS more work, canning, freezing, etc...I think I'd have to quit my job...

So, here's the question...how much can we do to have less impact without completely changing our lives???

Here are a few of the places she's getting her ideas...great stuff, but potentially causing me LOTS of headaches over the next few years...

http://noimpactman.typepad.com/blog/...g_concret.html - living in NYC with a wife and kid, NO power, only local foods, NO new purchases...OMG!!!!
http://www.recyclethis.co.uk/ - how to reuse/recycle anything
http://burbanmom.blogspot.com/ - mom looking for "easy" ways to be green

Anyway...how green is too green??

:)

I don't think there's such thing as "too green", however there is such a thing as what can be fit in with a reasonable person's lifestyle.

Saying that, of course, 90% of us (me included) do/use things that we don't need or even get any joy or ease out of, but because we're merely just lazy. For example, the drive rather than 15 minute walk on a nice day. Buying stuff with layers of plastics rather than from the fresh food section ...etc.

Maybe the tending garden/canning/freezing becomes something where you enjoy spending more time with your wife, rather than something you hate? Anyway, good to see someone having that discussion at home, so whatever you do will be more than 90% of others.

i watched live earth yesterday, so i've done my part for the year

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Originally Posted by flashpipe1

http://noimpactman.typepad.com/blog/...g_concret.html - living in NYC with a wife and kid, NO power, only local foods, NO new purchases...OMG!!!!

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This guy's fantastic!! Found my new hero!

Right!? Can you even imagine?? Once I read some of his posts I jokingly said to my wife... "You know, we could do that...let's call and get our power turned off!" And it was nice to get a little payback as I heard her brain screech to a halt...

hee, hee...

Seems like there are limits to the comforts we're willing to give up...still using disposable diapers and bottle liners...hmmm....

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo

Maybe the tending garden/canning/freezing becomes something where you enjoy spending more time with your wife, rather than something you hate? Anyway, good to see someone having that discussion at home, so whatever you do will be more than 90% of others.

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I actually think I would enjoy this, and I do a little canning and freezing already (we've still got tomatoes and zucchini from last year), but my wife doesn't have time to help between her business and our 2 year old and 5-month old, and I'm not willing to add this to my workload...maybe when our daughter is a year or so older and can actually help (instead of just picking and eating cherry tomatoes)...

As a compromise, we are now going to our local farmer's market and trying to buy as much local produce as we can...

:)

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Originally Posted by flashpipe1

I actually think I would enjoy this, and I do a little canning and freezing already (we've still got tomatoes and zucchini from last year), but my wife doesn't have time to help between her business and our 2 year old and 5-month old, and I'm not willing to add this to my workload...maybe when our daughter is a year or so older and can actually help (instead of just picking and eating cherry tomatoes)...

As a compromise, we are now going to our local farmer's market and trying to buy as much local produce as we can...

:)

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Is there some friend/neighbour's daughter who's old enough in the meantime, and looking for a way to make some pocket money?

And maybe instead of "giving" the extra away, selling it somewhere to cover the pocket money?

I suppose we could "hire" a high school student or something to handle some of the gardening/harvesting, and then they could get "paid" by keeping the extra veggies, but then, that would defeat the purpose of planting enough to feed ourselves for the year.

Plus, I really enjoy the gardening, I just don't have more than about an hour/week to do it with our current work/kids schedule. My current work schedule is so crazy because we're focused on becoming debt free so I can quit my job and freelance full-time which will become a reality in 6-8 months. The gardening is certainly something that we'll pursue when I'm at home full-time.

Good thought though...

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Originally Posted by flashpipe1

...going to our local farmer's market and trying to buy as much local produce as we can...

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It's funny...we hit the local farmers market every Sunday. Honestly, green impact aside, the stuff is usually better and fresher than I get anywhere else. This week, the place was OUT OF HAND with people. Granted, the weather was very nice, but there was at least 50% more people this week than any other week I've seen. I'd assume people took heed after the barrage of info from the various live earth broadcasts...hopefully, they'll keep it up.

Sadly, stopping meat consumption is the biggest most effective thing you could do.
The amount of energy used in its production and the methane byproduct is about 80% of of the total environment problem. Kinda makes doing anything else pointless.
of course that's PETA saying that so it could be way off.

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Originally Posted by jAQUAN

of course that's PETA saying that so it could be way off.

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Not just PETA...

Here's a report from the UN:
http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/libr...d/A0701E00.htm

And don't even get me started on milk...
http://www.milksucks.com/index2.asp

How do you get millions of consumers to wake up???

Damn, is that true? Shows how much time I've actually had to do any serious research, and is something I will definitely have to look at. Certainly not exactly hardship to reduce meat intake - pasta with vegetables and sauce rather than meat, vege stir fries (it's all in the spices and sauce!). I don't see mention of fish?

Thanks for the heads up (even if I "should" have known already).

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Originally Posted by flashpipe1

...so I can quit my job and freelance full-time which will become a reality in 6-8 months. The gardening is certainly something that we'll pursue when I'm at home full-time.

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Decent enough timeframe to be planning something like that I think. It is about working out what you can do in the long term, not what you can do just for this weekend.

Who knows, maybe you'll be home freelancing and get your own mini-agricultural business going at home. Word of advice: Look into mushroom growing. Really easy and can make some serious money with the exotic varieties. We're starting a couple of projects with local youth here in Kenya...

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Originally Posted by flashpipe1

How do you get millions of consumers to wake up???

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That's a huge question my friend. Consumers tend to like convenience and low prices. There's always going to be competition from large corporations who can afford to put it closer and cheaper. In vegas, where it's nothing but strip malls, small businesses can barely afford the rent. You have to be an immediate success in order to last more than 3 months. I can't tell you how many small restaurants I see open and close in the same breath.

I can't really blame the consumers though. That majority of the new middle class (read: almost poor) simply don't have the luxury of choosing. You can feed your family for a week on pure crap for what you'd spend on healthier more enviro friendly goods.

The earth won't stop dying until the meat industry is using a smarter energy.
A smarter energy won't exist until we rehab from oil addiction.
An oil addiction will be around as long as lobbying is legal.
(of course the most corrupt usually get hired by the company lobbying them anyway.)
Lobbying won't be illegal until politicians fear their jobs.
Politicians won't fear their jobs unless their constituents threaten to vote for the other guy, and do.
People won't participate in the process until either they have the luxury to do so or until it's too late.

i've been thinking about switching my bulbs to the florescent kind...however, i've determined that i would need 18-20 of them to do the whole house....any suggestions on brands or where to buy? i see home depot has them for $8 a piece...good price?

Not a bad price...I think I paid $8-12 depending on the wattage (three-way, etc.) when we did ours...they DON'T work in dimmers, so keep the old bulbs for those...

Actually, LEDs are more expensive, but better, since they last longer and aren't made with any mercury (which is used to make the CFS), but I couldn't afford to do all LEDs (although some LEDs are made with lead, so recycle those too), so just make sure you recycle the CFS lights when they burn out...you can find recyling centers at www.earth911.org or www.lamprecycle.org.

And, although there's no way to reach all those consumers, we decided that we can at least do our part, try to pass along the message, and, most importantly, try to be good examples to our kids...

And, if you really want to feel bummed about the next time you play your PS3 or answer your cell phone...check out this:
http://johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=863

UGGG!!! Shoot me now!!!

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Originally Posted by lefteyewilly

i've been thinking about switching my bulbs to the florescent kind...however, i've determined that i would need 18-20 of them to do the whole house....any suggestions on brands or where to buy? i see home depot has them for $8 a piece...good price?

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Just be sure to have a level 5 hazmat suit if you break one :)
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007...ehugger_14.php

They're actually not that dangerous, but most would argue, they're not all that effective either.

jaquan, what's wrong with the effectiveness? unless i'm falling for the marketing ploys, it seems as though my electricity usage would go down a fair bit, thus reducing the C02? is this a myth or are you speaking of something i'm not aware of?

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo

I don't see mention of fish?

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It's very irresponsible to eat fish. We're facing a shortage of seafood.

Every little bit helps, but considering the meat and milk industries contribution, you wont make a dent. That's probably a pessimistic way of looking at it but I'm a big believer in stopping the leak before you mop up the mess.
I'm all for lowering your bills and I'll probably end up getting some CFL's too to do just that.
I just wonder if we shouldn't donate the savings to a good cause like Ron Paul :p

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Originally Posted by FlashLackey

It's very irresponsible to eat fish. We're facing a shortage of seafood.

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Uh...this is a BIG blanket statement. I buy all sustainable fish, which makes me significantly less irresponsible. Sorry kids, but I am not giving up my fish THAT easily!

I see. So you're one of those eat-it-before-the-other-guy-does types. :mad:

Just wait for the green trend to be over.

Hah. What do you think the next color will be?

How orange should you be?!

...and, you can still eat beef, but, you're better off (and so is the environment) if you buy organic, or, even better, grassfed beef...

http://www.eatwild.com/environment.html

Hey guys. . . . I think there is a couple of trees out back you could hug and keep warm.

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Originally Posted by FlashLackey

I see. So you're one of those eat-it-before-the-other-guy-does types. :mad:

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No. I sincerely hope this is a joke, right?

Anyway, I am talking about line caught fish as opposed to mass caught net-style or trap-style fishing. I also support my local fishermen and my geographically closest 'sustainable' fish market. As I said, I am not going to give up my fish, but I am not eating shrimp or chilean bass or any of the other no-no types.

I've been buying grass fed beef for a while too.

Seems to me the least intrusive way of adopting the treehugger ways is not necessarily to stop what you do, but find a less invasive, more responsible way of doing it. I will never be that no-impact man type of guy. I will, however, be glad to modify my evil ways accordingly.

lol

Hanratty will make a mockery of any subject, except his fish. don't flashkit with his fish!

i was joking. :)

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Originally Posted by FlashLackey

lol

Hanratty will make a mockery of any subject, except his fish. don't flashkit with his fish!

i was joking. :)

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No heroin or crack addiction here, but if you try and take away my sushi, I will kick some serious FK-ing ass my friends. I'll be glad to enlist 'Clark' to help in the ass kicking given his mad-ninja-skillz.

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Originally Posted by hanratty21

No. I sincerely hope this is a joke, right?

Anyway, I am talking about line caught fish as opposed to mass caught net-style or trap-style fishing. I also support my local fishermen and my geographically closest 'sustainable' fish market. As I said, I am not going to give up my fish, but I am not eating shrimp or chilean bass or any of the other no-no types.

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the ocean is severly over harvested, it doesn't matter if you take its resources with a line, net, or stick of tnt

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I've been buying grass fed beef for a while too.

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the grassland that cow is using used to be forrest

Considering the health concerns of red meat it is best to get off the cow. Switch to chickens.

theres plenty of possum...

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Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar

the ocean is severly over harvested, it doesn't matter if you take its resources with a line, net, or stick of tnt

the grassland that cow is using used to be forrest

Considering the health concerns of red meat it is best to get off the cow. Switch to chickens.

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You know, I really dont want to get into this opinion-related politically-charged debate here in this thread, but these types of statements are exactly what makes the general populous (of the US, anyway) not really do anything about these matters. Being set in our ways is tough, and modifying those ways is even tougher. One of the concepts I've seen recently from the 'green' effort is to have people do their part, but making the effort palatable by not having be completely invasive. It's the whole 'more flies with honey thing.'

Telling someone to 'switch to chickens' is pretty invasive. Humans have been eating red meat for a long time, right or not. I like it and will continue, but...I WILL do my small part in not contributing to the problem and trying to be as minimally environmentally invasive as possible by eating grass fed beef.

I will also continue to eat line caught fish from our over-harvested oceans, whether you think I am helping or contributing to the problem.

I don't want to have a 'length/girth contest' on my greenness or have to justify to some environmental nazi what is right or wrong with my lifestyle. I just want to live my life while doing what I can. To be honest, I'd imagine if the message were sent about all of the easy things one could do to be part of the solution and not part of the problem, we'd ALL probably get a lot more participation.

His opinion certainly seemed a lot less harsh than your response.

I too would choose to keep eating my seafood (damn, do miss good sashimi!), but I certainly don't mind folk debating whether I could/should change my habits.

This is actually one of the best discussions I've read on any message board for a looooooooooooooooong time.

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo

His opinion certainly seemed a lot less harsh than your response.

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Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar

the ocean is severly over harvested, it doesn't matter if you take its resources with a line, net, or stick of tnt

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@Davo - I think this statement held some volume, no? Personally, I think I toned down my 'usual' volume in the response. My point is that telling peeps to "STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW!!!" instead of "Do what you are doing in a much more responsible way" is going to get a much higher partocipation level. When you tell people that they only need to change a little to make an impact, they (sheep) are much more likely to make that change.

I was just thinking, I haven't eaten any meat or fish in the past week and a half. Though, it does seem I missed making about...7-8 meals during the time. My mother is big about the green stuff. Only buys certain stuff, shops at the local butcher, and the farmers market. Then she has near industrial sized containers of vitamins on her counter. All this "greenness" seems like a fad, just like the electric cars.

I understand full well why people do it. I don't do it all that much, I recycle, turn off lights, turn off water. Yadda...yadda, so on and so forth. But all these people that claim to be green still don't change their ways at all. It seems that they overcompensate and do very un-green things in response to even becoming slightly so green.

It seems to be that most ideas of green seem to be a mix of veganism and vegetarianism. I don't quite get it all. If you think about it, most of this started around the time that one movie came out that told us how bad we all are. Will prolly end once that movie leaves the shelves too.

Chicken...you can only eat so much of it before you get sick of it. Thats why we started killing cows...we couldn't stand any more feathered birds...I've eaten alligator before...tastes like chicken... ^.^

On a side note, this over doing the land and seas could be fixed easily....cannibalism...yeah. I'm kidding though.

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Originally Posted by hanratty21

@Davo - I think this statement held some volume, no? Personally, I think I toned down my 'usual' volume in the response. My point is that telling peeps to "STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW!!!" instead of "Do what you are doing in a much more responsible way" is going to get a much higher partocipation level. When you tell people that they only need to change a little to make an impact, they (sheep) are much more likely to make that change.

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Hey, just thought he was conveying some info, not saying, "Hey, you have to do this!!"

Just an opinion from me too.

*ducks for cover

I wasn't saying convert to jainism or die.. which is a really funny statement.

Was just pointing out that eating grass fed beef is more of a personal health thing than an environmental deal. Alot of pastures have used to be forrest and have run off that is destroying rivers, streams and bays... my bay in particular.... I also hate chickens... and am a partial investor in a chick-fila.

As far as the oceans.. was merely trying to draw attention to just how horribly the oceans are suffering.. it is pretty close to death. a century ago or more the average swordfish was 4 to 5 times the size of what the largest ones being caught today are.


for the record hamburgers make my mouth water and I had salmon on saturday.

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Originally Posted by Eleniatari

just like the electric cars.

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I think you'll be seeing a lot more than a "fad" regarding electric cars over the next decade or so.

I reckon giving up smoking for health reasons was probably seen as a "fad" in its day. ;)

most of the people i know that gave up smoking gave it up because it is hard to find a placed to smoke and a pack is about 5 bucks.

electric cars are largely a marketing ploy.

The last electric car "fad" was about 3-4 years ago. Then the middle east dropped prices of oil...and look...you don't even remember that fad...WOW...

No, people give up smoking because they don't wanna commit long term suicide.