Can you patent an idea

Hi

Lets say you've come up with an idea that is pretty unique in the field - you are not stupid and you would like to make some money out of it BUT its based on an IDEA - an application of current technology that, for various reasons, is not seen in the wild ......

Once the idea itself is out in the open - then your only defence, as it were, would be to release the idea for nothing - make it open source so that any competitors were essentially disabled from making great profit because the original source of the idea was available to all.

I guess there is no way to patent said idea .... and that the defence tactic would be the ONLY tactic .....

Any thoughts on that?

I have no idea about patents, but you might be able to do a lot of research at the source: http://www.uspto.gov/main/patents.htm

Hey

Thanks. Looks interesting. But hardly lite reading ... :-). I shall have to plow through it and look carefully. The other thing I was thinking was, could it work if one could get/create a license for the 'software' that does the deed .... and even though the software could be reproduced in other ways - it would be the fact that it essentially does the 'same deed' as the original that would be protected by the license.

Who invented the on-line, streamed video - a la youTube. Or the flash photo-gallery display so favoured on mySpace but ripped off from ..... where? Photobucket? Does there exist a license, or patent for these applications - somebody clearly invented/created the first one - and maybe NOT someone working for the extremely massive corporate entities that brought them into the mass market. Did youTube rip the idea off from some poor tech-head on here years ago ....... or photobucket take their idea from member showing their site off on Cool Sites??

Is there a mechanism for protecting the inventiveness of people on sites like this - inventiveness in the application of technology - or are those people forever going to be looking at 'the next big social phenomina' and saying .. 'if only I could have protected MY idea ...'

Interestingly, Facebook welcome developers input with open arms - as do many of the big companies these days ...... (unlike myspace). They WANT new ideas .... actively seek them out ... but what protection do the people who come up with them get ... ?

put your idea down on paper and send it in.

that's a good idea...


* runs off to patent office *

Maybe if you told us the idea in full, we could better help you with your decision.

I'm not expert either. But, my understanding is that you can patent just about anything that isn't already patented. The question is whether or not doing so provides you with anything of value.

I do know that you CAN patent processes and software like you described. You just have to be able to prove that you were the first person to innovate it and that it doesn't infringe on other patents (for example, expected usage of other platforms that it relies on).

LoL ...

.... I'll try and translate it into a flow diagram ..... :-) ...

Well ... it concerns something I mentioned earlier on another thread about advertising. Seems to me that every man and his dog produce Flash banners, website headers ...etc. Now I've got nothing against people making a quick buck doing that sort of thing - but it seems to me to be really ..... outdated.

Why should people pay what is often quite a large sum of money (if you are a small business) for a banner ad or series of banner ads that have a very limited lifespan. Half of the money might be going on the 'design' element ....( I say might..) but the majority of it seems to be attributable solely to the unexplainable fact that, in general market terms, a banner ad costs £X00 or $Y00 .. so this banner ad will also cost a similar amount.

The flash skills needed to make a banner advert are not exactly within the realms of guru or expert ..... it just seems, to me anyway, to be a market that exists a certain way BECAUSE thats the way the market exists ......

There is, of course, an alternative ....

Dude, I was kidding. Delete your post now man. Now everyone has your freaking idea.

LoL ViRGi

Go for it ....... :-)

You're either someone who has good ideas ... or you're not ..... and ideas are, in the end, cheap. Its only making them work that is hard ....... and that ... of course .... neccessitates having MORE good ideas ......

Check NPR. They just had a really good discussion about this.

Whats NPR .... I'm no geeker ...... teehee

national pulic radio. i got a good recipee for schwetty balls.

so you want to patent the idea of a world without banners? :)

there are two costs generally associated with banners: production and propogation.

production is generally the market rate, affected by how much a skilled person could earn for their time on other projects. a banner doesn't have to be flash. it could be a graphic or even text. so, the cost can be negligible for production.

propogation costs tend to be affected also by the market and generally by how much others are willing to pay to have their banner in that same space. so, the more you are willing to pay, the better locations you are going to get.

either way, you get what you pay for. it's not really arbitrary.

Have you actually done research on effective banner advertising campaigns? First and foremost, they usually involve far more than "just" a banner, and may incorporate a number of different online channels and executions.

Second, the campaigns that actually have the most success are usually very unique in some way, hardly a "cookie cutter" approach that your rationale seems to suggest. A well executed and effective banner ad will incorporate an understanding of semiotics in order to attract sufficient favourable attention from a viewer to convince them to "click here".

For mine, the concept you're outlining seems to have already been delivered with Google ads.

Propogation costs are beyond the control of the people making the banner - but it does seem to be case that the cost to deploy a series of banners in the right places for a particular product/service makes it even more desirable for the content, style, text and even specific 'product' or 'sevice' targetting to be dynamic - rather than fixed at the time of construction of the banner.

FlashLackey - I understand that a skilled personis just that ..... skilled at what they do ... which also links to TheOriginalFlashDavo's comments regarding content. I'm not talking about content. I'm talking about how the content is presented.

No doubt, at the top of this page is a banner ad. The company ... a BIG one I'm guessing - is parting with their cash for the space to show their wares. No doubt also that when you refresh - a different banner shows - maybe by the same company - because they didn't just make one banner - they have lots - it makes their campaign more effective. Big companies have big budgets and can employ who they like to design their banners - and produce as many different ones as they need or want. Smaller businesses do not have this luxury ..... Banner rotation is just one side of this hidden flexibility that larger companies can make easy use of - they can do it because they can afford more banners - giving their artists, designers and marketing people a wider spread of ideas to play with. As banner ads diversify, incorporating video, virtual characters and 'in-line' commerce opportunities - they will only get more expensive and more exclusive - smaller businesses will fall behind because they cannot compete in variety .... and cannot be as flexible when it comes to targetting.

This is not down to skilled designers and artists ..... this is down to Flash. But Flash can, of course re-level that playing field, because Flash can make banners truly interactive for the customer ....... the customer being the one paying for the ad ..... not the one its targetted at attracting when published .....

Sorry, I missed this earlier ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FlashLackey

so you want to patent the idea of a world without banners? :)

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LoL ... hardly .....

I see a world full of banners, using interactivity, animation, virtual characters and multimedia presentations driven by commercial and info-mercial ends; on phones, trains, buses, shopfronts and specialist ad boards .... anywhere .. and everywhere ( .. I'm not saying that is a good thing ..... but it seems to be an almost inevitable thing ...). But what I don't see is the entry point for new, small and experimental businesses, agencies and potential users. This technology will be expensive and based on the rules that exist now - if you want cutting edge, mass market advertising - pay the going rate. This I can understand for getting the ad to be seen in the right place ... but its not neccessary to get the ad produced. These new ideas can be integrated in a much simpler way if the vehicle for its presentation was more customer-friendly - if you could try out your particular ideas without sinking hundreds of dollars into getting it together .... A modular approach to ad banner creation if you like ...... where the cost (if you are getting someone else to do it) is spent almost entirely on cosmetic design, how it looks, not on the presently behind-the-scenes mechanics of how it works.

Yeah yeah yeah ... I hear you say ... you're thinking of all these template driven ad-banner creation packages ...... well, in a way I am ...... but they are NOT going the whole way now are they ...... there is more they can do .....

I don't see how you can patent an idea otherwise I will patent the idea of hovercars and 3D television and make a bundle when they are finally invented.

No .... I guess you're right ...

I was just looking at SitePal. Its a good idea ... but I suppose anyone can now rip off the idea. SitePal's great advantage was that they, I imagine, secured enough investment to get the idea out into the market place with enough prominence that their service is now synonymous with them. They offer a 'unique' service and competitors, if there are any, have to play catch-up with the development side before launching their own version.

I wonder though .... is the copyright protection afforded by their website enough to cover the idea ..... it might be. Any competitors would have to use the internet and have to essentially offer the same service through the same medium ...... would this infringe the copyright of their (SitePal's) website?

Well ... its been interesting ....

Regards,

Ebay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve worswick

I don't see how you can patent an idea otherwise I will patent the idea of hovercars and 3D television and make a bundle when they are finally invented.

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I believe you have to provide one working example to get a patent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TechNoiZ

I wonder though .... is the copyright protection afforded by their website enough to cover the idea ..... it might be. Any competitors would have to use the internet and have to essentially offer the same service through the same medium ...... would this infringe the copyright of their (SitePal's) website?

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Patents and copyrights are two different things. Competitors would not be infringing their copyright, doing what you describe [unless they used the exact same words to sell their services].

Quote:

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A modular approach to ad banner creation if you like ...... where the cost (if you are getting someone else to do it) is spent almost entirely on cosmetic design, how it looks, not on the presently behind-the-scenes mechanics of how it works.

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To be honest, it's not really clear to me what you've been trying to say.

Companies with more resources are always going to have greater options than smaller ones. They are going to be more visible. That doesn't mean that smaller ones will be invisible. They just have to work a little harder to establish their niche and tailor their ad efforts. This is how it works across the board, in print, tv, etc. And why should the playing field be leveled for smaller companies when they are small for a reason? Doesn't it make sense that we see a Microsoft ad here instead of an ad for a boutique in Kansas that makes hand-made pikachu-themed slippers?

It seems like what you're saying is that you have an idea for how to offer better quality ads for less via some template or engine system. Nothing wrong with that. That's what capitalism is all about. An entrepeneur recognizes a niche as an open door and innovates some improved product.

But, to stay on topic of your question, I don't think you would be able to patent that because it would be using technologies that are already patented to be used in the way you want to. Grounds for a patent would be for a process that involves a better way to send data, view web-sites, etc. You wouldn't be introducing a new chemical compound. Rather, just a new mixture of compounds already patented.

Anyway, I think this is the case with a lot of new business ideas. Instead of looking for a patent, it's more a matter of implementing the idea first and in a smart way that will ensure you always stand out as the original and best provider of that product or service. Even if it's not patented, doing something first and well is a great advantage over future competitors.

Thanks for that FlashLackey .... makes sense to me .... :)

i just patented the idea or patenting an idea.

Ah :) 'Cilck or press Space bar to activate this control'

I think you would find that patenting an idea is exactly what EOLAS did with their idea for embedded media...then they sued Microsoft for a squillion for infringing.

davidp