AIR, Shu, Zinc and SWFStudio

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03-31-2008, 09:08 AM
beantickler

AIR, Shu, Zinc and SWFStudio

I was hoping to make standalone applications in AIR but found a couple of issues - application wasn't standalone (eg able to run from CD) and I couldn't execute other applications.

However, I have come across a product called Shu, www.shu-player.com, which seems to remove those limitations of AIR.
I have used Zinc before but it had soo many bugs and performance issues we had to drop it. SWFStudio doesnt support Mac, so that unfortunately cant be used.

I just wondered if anyone has done a comparison of Shu based AIR apps to the other more traditional Zinc, SWFStudio apps?

I have found ones comparing Zinc to AIR, but now Shu is available, they seem irrelevant.
03-31-2008, 10:49 AM
Cortana

How old is shu - I don't think anyone could have made a comparison since it's so new.

I find it quite a coincidence that this is your first post here and you mention the shu-player...

If I didn't know any better I'd say you only posted here to advertise shu...
03-31-2008, 11:53 AM
beantickler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortana

I find it quite a coincidence that this is your first post here and you mention the shu-player...

If I didn't know any better I'd say you only posted here to advertise shu...

Out of order. Actually I couldnt remember my account login details OR the email address I registered it with. I havnt been in the flashkit forums for a while.
03-31-2008, 12:15 PM
Cortana

Interesting...

Especially as on the website specified it was supposed to be launched tomorrow...

I've noticed a few posts from new users on other forums all saying pretty much the same thing...
03-31-2008, 12:33 PM
Northcode

The FK mods are on the job man, relax. The post was in the moderation queue because it was from a "new" user and contained a URL. I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and let it through. If he had posted in other forums it would have been a little more suspicious. He wouldn't be the first (and they won't be the last) to spam the board and get banned for it.
03-31-2008, 01:12 PM
beantickler

WOW, an honest post. I am soo surprised.

Much respect Northcode for giving me the benefit of the doubt.

For the record, I found out about Shu via a blog listing at wildwinter (I dare not post link in case I get accused of pushing someone elses tool!).

As for release dat on Shu site... I hadnt even noticed!! Anyway, whats that have to do with anything???
03-31-2008, 02:42 PM
Cortana

I was simply thinking that perhaps the website wasn't going to be advertised to geezers until that date.

T'wll be interesting to see how this newcomer fares with such a high price tag...
04-01-2008, 05:50 AM
helix_torques

Doesn't seem that high a price as you get both the Mac and PC versions for the money. With Zinc you have to buy the PC and Mac version separately and together they add up to considerably more than the cost of shu ....
04-01-2008, 05:51 AM
beantickler

Quote:

be interesting to see how this newcomer fares with such a high price tag

Scared to post now! but...
Hmm, price works out cheaper than Zinc as far as I can work out ($700 ish for Mac and PC), Shu is £250 for both. But not a give away really.
04-01-2008, 01:59 PM
Northcode

Anyonoe here named Jethro? :)
04-01-2008, 03:22 PM
Chris_Seahorn

The Shu site is just vague enough on details to almost be useless for information on how exactly it works and more importantly does it negate the need (which it hints by saying it doesn't need to install or require the runtime which in and of itself is interesting but lacking details of how it does this) for a CA. AIR installers are ferociously scary without one (and even then still aren't the warmest fuzziest experience with the system access warnings) and how exactly would Shu handle this or bypass it? If it can't...factor in the cost of a CA which makes AIR anything but free if you want to BE recognized as the author or a "TRUSTED SOURCE" :)
04-01-2008, 05:53 PM
beantickler

You make an interesting point Chris.
From what I can tell, Shu completely bypasses the CA stuff built in to AIR (as there is no install of a Shu app) so there is no notion of a "trusted source". If we want or need that security for end users, Shu wont help at all.
04-02-2008, 08:18 AM
lesli_felix

Quote:

Originally Posted by helix_torques

Doesn't seem that high a price as you get both the Mac and PC versions for the money. With Zinc you have to buy the PC and Mac version separately and together they add up to considerably more than the cost of shu ....

Wow, another shu fanboy already?

Interestingly you haven't posted about any other subject....
04-02-2008, 10:38 AM
Northcode

Quote:

Interestingly you haven't posted about any other subject....

Ease up the fanboys :) They're allowed to like software. Maybe they were on the beta and were just waiting to tell someone about it. If you have complaints, please PM me or another moderator and we'll take care of it.
04-02-2008, 01:39 PM
beantickler

Well I wasnt on the Shu beta, but I have been googling for this kind of tool for what seems like ages now. I am very excited... why... fed up with Zinc and its bugs and workarounds. ANYone who has used Zinc for any length of time will know EXACTLY what I am saying.
I would have used SWFStudio instead of Zinc but it has no Mac output unfortunately.
Same applies to Mike Chamber's CommandProxy but this also lacks other things Shu addresses.
I really like AIR, largely because most things I need to do are built in. Lets face it, Adobe are far less likely to create bugs than MDM! Shu doesnt add loads of commands (very few actually), so hopefully there is less room to break!

Another thing guys, I noticed a post on MDM forums about Shu. Funny how they deleted that thread. At least Northcode (Tim here), isnt so protectionist.
04-02-2008, 03:29 PM
lesli_felix

You "noticed" a post on the MDM forums eh? Wasn't whilst you were typing it, was it?

Zinc kicks ass, I use it all the time. From what you're saying I doubt you've used it in years.
04-02-2008, 03:45 PM
beantickler

No, not typed by myself actually.
I have been using Zinc since it was Flash Studio Pro v1 actually. I also have delivered several apps built with it. I have also had to suffer the complaints from my customers too when they get an access violation on Dell machines etc etc.
Oh and the spending twice as long as it should take to author because of countless bugs and having to find workarounds for them. I have been (and anyone who uses Zinc has to IMO) been very active on their forums.
How you can assume I havent used it in "years" is mind boggling.
I cannot think of ONE person out of all the people I know and speak to that reckons Zinc "kicks ass" (if what your meaning there is positive).
Everyone I ever speak to who actually USES Zinc for COMMERCIAL products reckons it is rubbish. Or kicks ones own ass (in a bad way).
04-03-2008, 06:09 AM
lesli_felix

Beantickler, you have a couple of noticable writing quirks which show up in all of your posts, irrelevant of which name you're posting under.
04-03-2008, 10:23 AM
beantickler

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesli_felix

Beantickler, you have a couple of noticable writing quirks which show up in all of your posts, irrelevant of which name you're posting under.

Oh really. Care to shed some light on your knowledge and wisdom then?
04-03-2008, 10:38 AM
lesli_felix

Nope. You never let someone know what their tell is.
04-03-2008, 10:48 AM
Northcode

Okay, that's about as far as it goes. You guys can continue exchanging love notes via PM but keep it out of here.
05-01-2008, 12:51 PM
MikeChambers

fyi

Adobe does allow developers to redistribute the Adobe AIR installer. You can find more information here:

http://www.mikechambers.com/blog/200...ime-installer/

and

http://www.adobe.com/products/air/ru...ribution1.html

However, we do not allow the redistribution of just the runtime or parts of the runtime (i.e. you cannot run AIR application without installing Adobe AIR).

from the comments on that post:

--
Furthermore, Adobe has not granted any software tool provider or other party the right do to so. Adobe does not encourage the use of any software that promotes a prohibited use of Adobe AIR or relies on undocumented capabilities.
--

So, in most, if not all cases, using Shu to distribute AIR applications (and parts of the AIR runtime) that dont require that Adobe AIR be installed is prohibited by the licensing for Adobe AIR.

You could of course write an installer that first installed Adobe AIR, and then your application though. You just need to apply for a license to redistribute the installer.

Hope that helps clarify...

mike chambers

[email protected]
05-01-2008, 03:25 PM
beantickler

Quote:

So, in most, if not all cases,

??

What about the flash player in Zinc and SWFStudio? That output seems to fall short of redistribution too.
06-19-2009, 04:29 PM
jimwash

installation issues for air app using shu

We've had problems installing our air apps with Shu (not ShuSA or Shulite)
if Air is already installed the installation fails, if Air is not already installed
it works OK.

The air app without Shu installs fine.

Also we've had horrible support from Shu, has anyone else had
the same experience.
08-11-2009, 10:20 AM
fjgamer

I tried Zinc and SWFStudio last year and didn't really like SWFStudio. Zinc was pretty good but not really useful enough to warrant the cost. I do like making custom projectors, though.
08-11-2009, 10:31 AM
Northcode

Quote:

I tried Zinc and SWFStudio last year and didn't really like SWFStudio

Can I ask why? You can reply here or PM me. All feedback, even the negative stuff, helps me make the software better.
08-11-2009, 11:10 AM
flashpipe1

We've been using SWF Studio for 3+ years and have been amazed with the support we've gotten (thanks NC!) on their forum and others (like FK).

It took a little using to get the syntax and calls figured out, but, after getting some good guidance and lots of samples, we've got it down pretty well.

We've recently had a client who needs a mac delivered CD, so we're looking into AIR, Zinc and Shu. I think it's crazy because all we need is for the exe to open folders on the CD for the user to explore. Seems like a large expense just to avoid having to say "Navigate to the 'resources' folder on your CD to see the supporting files." but, that's the clients call.
08-11-2009, 02:16 PM
Northcode

Brian! Don't cross over to the dark side.. talk to me :)
08-12-2009, 11:18 PM
flashpipe1

lol...you guys have a Mac version yet? Or know if a way, other than Zinc, to have flash on the Mac open a folder on a CD??

I'm sure if we end up going the Zinc route, we'll just use it on the Mac side and use SWF Studio on the PC side...

:)
08-13-2009, 03:55 PM
Northcode

Quote:

Or know if a way, other than Zinc, to have flash on the Mac open a folder on a CD??

Just use fscommand and an compiled AppleScript script. One solution (for opening the application folder) is in the sticky (FAQ) thread for this forum!
08-17-2009, 09:33 AM
flashpipe1

Excellent! I'll check into that and see if that meets the client need...

Thanks!!
08-23-2009, 03:25 AM
flashpipe1

Hmm...tried what was in the sticky and it kept opening in the browser...even following your other tip in another newsgroup about not using the / on the end of the path, still got the browser...
Anyway, the client may be pulling back on the mac version, so I'll just use SWFStudio...until they decide to go mac...YAY!! So easy...

Then I'll come back and try this some more...

:)

Thanks!
08-24-2009, 07:26 AM
hex4

Is SWF Studio looking at making an Mac version, any eta if so?
08-27-2009, 10:19 PM
Northcode

There will never be a MAC version of SWF Studio because we won't release a MAC version unless it works EXACTLY like the Windows version and that would be impossible with SWF Studio, there's just too much Windows specific functionality in there.
10-02-2009, 07:59 AM
jjbilly

Northcode Thing

Hi Tim - what happened with this? Wasn't this at one time going to be Northcode's route to Mac apps?

Thanks
10-02-2009, 12:16 PM
Northcode

That was the plan. We showed Thing at Flash Forward in New York in 2003 but the response was somewhat underwhelming. It turns out that nobody REALLY wanted a Mac version. The few people that did want it REALLY wanted it but they weren't willing to pony up 10X what the Windows version sold for to offset the cost of development and support :)

Even today if you look at the forums of the companies that do sell Mac versions of their software they get about 1/10th of the traffic you see for their Windows products. And it's not a lot of activity, mostly complaints about why feature X doesn't work on the Mac and why nothing works on Mac OS 10 point whatever. It just doesn't make sense to put the same level of effort into development and support for a product that will get you 1/10th of the return.

You have to not care about the quality of your software, not care about providing great support or not care about staying in business. We like our customers too much to do what our competitors have done, i.e. release software that sucks and dodge support calls and emails when things get rough and users demand working software.

Our Mac/Win player engine is still alive and works on everything from OS 9.2 to the latest version of OS X (under Rosetta for Intel support). We use it for custom projects but we don't have a commercial version like SWF Studio.

Will we ever release Thing? It's possible. It's more likely that we'll license the technology to people that REALLY want it instead of trying to support the world. I think the release of AIR 2.0 is going to shake things up so we have to see what happens there and how the market responds before we make any long term plans.