Holy Patriot Act...

Funny how the Patriot Act was ridiculed by most in the US, vilified by others as a step in the wrong direction, even classified by most folks as an invasion of privacy.

I tend to agree.

But in Britainnia... it's gonna get worse. At least they were forthcoming with it; unlike Echelon which is still housed in the UK.

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The Home Office will create a database to store the details of every phone call made, every email sent and every web page visited by British citizens in the previous year under plans currently under discussion, it has emerged.

The Government wants to create the system to fight terrorism and crime. The police and security services believe it will make it easier to access important data as communications become more complex.

Telecoms firms and internet service providers (ISPs) have already been approached by the Home Office, which would be given customer records if the plans were realized.

The security services and police would then be able to access records for any individual over the previous 12 months by gaining permission through the courts.

The plans will raise concern from data protection and civil liberty campaigners and fuel objections to the perceived rise of a “Big Brother” state. There will be worries about the Home Office’s ability to safeguard the data from loss or theft, after recent incidents such as when the child benefit information of every family in Britain with a child under 16 were mislaid.

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Read more here for details...

Sorta surprised to not have seen this in the middle of the prior critiques of how the US is becoming something like this.

so they are taking information from the previous year? How can that NOT result in some sort of law suit, Going forward i could understand having the disclaimer that any and all information will be added to this DB, but taking past information without having ever notified the people seems kind of wrong.

There are ways to surf, call and email anonymously.

Those who want to remain untraced will continue to do so.

Is that kinda like outlawing guns only ensures that criminals will be the only ones armed?

If the Home Office could prove beyond possibility that the data could not be hacked then thats another story.

Looks like snail mail could make a comeback ;)

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Originally Posted by lesli_felix

There are ways to surf, call and email anonymously.

Those who want to remain untraced will continue to do so.

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That’s exactly the point. This has nothing to do with "terrorism" and everything to do with control. I cannot understand why its not clear to everyone that the "War on Terror" is nothing more then a profit machine for the elite and a means to scare sheeple into willingly giving up their freedoms. Very sad.

Those that would sacrifice their liberties for freedom deserve neither.

We're walking into a survellience society and this is just the tip of the iceberg. It's not on. The UK has the most CCTV cameras in Europe. Everything we do is being recorded and monitored and it will do NOTHING to prevent terrorism. This is coming from someone who never usually capitalises words in a sentence to make a point!

Not to mention our Government's lacklustre security; I expect all our web history and phone calls to be accessible by searching Google ffs.

As someone with children who have to live with this crap in the future, this subject is very near and dear to me and over the past couple of years I've become more and more involved with what our Government is and isn’t doing. I think the whole Ron Paul thing really brought it all to light for me. Since then I've written my Congressmen, Senators, State Reps and the District Attorney on a regular basis and while I typically receive a response, I can’t help but think that it makes no differents whatsoever. I've even taken time off work to attended meetings and lunches with these “people” and I can say for certain that they can CARE LESS about any of us. They all have the following basic motives in mind, wealth and power.

Now anyone who knows me knows full well that I'm peace loving and compassionate person with a positive outlook on life, but MAN are my patience wearing thin. :mrt:

I've not made up my mind about CCTV. It's making life tough for a lot of criminals. I've had to stop mugging people at cashpoints and get a real job.

I'm not too bothered about the monitoring... They wouldn't know how to search for a bomb in a box. It's more about making us think we're being watched so we remain dosile.... The same reason we're sold all the BS about terrr orrrrr ists.

There was an article published not to long ago that stated that the U.K. is becoming one of the most intrusive police states.

I would look it up but scotch and a nice cigar has left me somewhat impaired

There is a cctv camera on the opposite side of the road to my girlfriend's village corner store. Its one of those PTZ cameras, the pan and tilt moveable ones.
The other week at 5am we had some of the early milk delivery stolen - value about £3, but on our early morning paper deliveries we noticed that vandals had thrown milk at several local homes. We contacted the police to let them know that maybe they could identify the vandals from their cctv footage. Guess what, 3 weeks later we got a letter offering us counciling as a victim of crime! the people who had their homes vandalised? they heard nothing?
So why is the camera there? still waiting to find out.

Milk Delivery?

CCTV, has the crime rate actually gone down since this massive investment and invasion of privacy?

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Originally Posted by Planet

CCTV, has the crime rate actually gone down since this massive investment and invasion of privacy?

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Would it? More people will report crime if they think it might have been caught on camera, and more people will get caught, so sentencing and prosecution will increase too. In theory, if CCTV is effective, the crime rate could go up for quite a while before it becomes enough of a deterrent to bring the crime rate down.

I agree it's a complete joke though. When the police shot that brazilian guy in stockwell tube station, all the cameras were "broken"....

CCTV can be defeated with a scarf around the face and a baseball cap. The only people it will catch are not serious criminals but people goofing about breaking property while drunk etc. who haven't went out with the intention in mind and therefore don't disguise themselves.

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Originally Posted by Planet

CCTV, has the crime rate actually gone down since this massive investment and invasion of privacy?

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/06/ukcrime1

no it hasnt.

Stop pairing CCTV with crime and terrorism. You are doing the governments work for them. Seriously, they are there for things much more important. Raising revenue through parking enforcement.

I can just see those guys in the picture sitting back, sucking down coffee and donuts, crumbs and powdered sugar all over their mouth and shirt, pointing and laughing at the screens when stupid stuff happens, zooming into womens blouses and joking about how easy their job has become. :p Thats just perfect. I guess I shouldn't laugh because this is exactly what we'll see here in the US in the months and years to come if we don't put a stop to the madness. :yarr:

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sucking down coffee and donuts

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They're British... "sipping upon tea whilst eating biscuits or crumpets..."

Get it right.

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Originally Posted by Frets

Milk Delivery?

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Yep over here we all used to have our milk delivered daily to the doorstep, but supermarket prices put an end to it, and now very few people get their milk that way, but this was a delivery to the shop of milk for us to sell. He was a bit earlier than his usual 5am, so he left it outside for us.

15 years ago I worked interfacing camera systems to computers for security applications, for sensitive installations like nuclear power plants, in those days the cameras cost thousands, today with the cameras being tiny and costing pence, they are everywhere. We have 2 in the shop running back to a tv/recorder, total cost £150.

You're right the motivation is not to prevent crime, but to record it, for ease of conviction later.

Even though it's cheap, the facilities and employee's cost money. Why not just pile that money together and distribute it to the criminals?
They could make crime ATM machines. "Gonna commit a crime? Stop by a crime ATM instead!"

Ya know, ignore the problem to the max.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/7417397.stm

In the meantime, if you know either of these two guys, get in touch with wiltshire police.

I know of no distributor company that just drops at the door and runs.
I was in the restaraunt biz for 30 years.

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Originally Posted by Frets

I know of no distributor company that just drops at the door and runs.

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It happens here all the time. You want 100 newspapers and 100 mornin rolls for free? Just head up the road at 6am. And that's in the capital city.

It works because crackheads get up late in the afternoon, and they can't do much with bread, milk and newspapers.