The quality of work done by cheap Indian labor

I'm going through a project that was outsourced after I left the company several years ago. This project was developed WITHOUT specification. I'm re-speccing it, so we can outsource it to ANOTHER company, who will build a version of it, while I'm currently building an entirely new version of it in HTML/JavaScript.

Don't ask why, my boss is a F*CKING MORON who thinks applications magically pop out of the air, and doesn't understand why prototypes can't be used in production.

I digress.

As I'm going through the work they did, I'm finding a number of atrocities. Architecture, for one, is non-existent. This application should be a single SWF that runs off of a few classes. Instead there are a dozen swfs and DOZENS of AS files, many of which aren't even used and you can tell they took from other people's projects.

But I had to share some of the winners, like this in one of the XML files used to feed the application:
<appendCorrectFeedback><![CDATA[False]]></appendCorrectFeedback>

That's right. A boolean value, stored as a string, as CDATA so as not to confuse the parser. Also note that apparently inside your AS, capitalization counts. A value that should in it's own right be an attribute of its parent node, not a separate value.

How about another?
<colortheme><![CDATA[Blue]]></colortheme>

This tag specifies the color of the background, nothing else. Inside the swf, "Blue" is converted to an RGB value that is used to tint the movieclip in the background. Why not just use the RGB value as a parameter, so I can use any color I want? Because that would make too much sense. Also, protected by CData, just in case the parser sees 'Blue' and starts to feel sad.

I could go on for pages, but I'll post just one more:
<reviewPreRequisite><![CDATA[Off]]></reviewPreRequisite>

This SHOULD be a boolean value, but no, Off is much easier to remember. Again, capitalized, and wrapped in CData to prevent the parser from shutting the power off by mistake.

I have TONS of stuff like this, not to mention a terrible design, and RETARDED business rules that interfere with functionality, but I'm too pissed off to document it all.

The moral of the story here is YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. This is what $20/hour and a 2 day turnaround gets you.

OFFSHORE AT YOUR OWN RISK.

I heard that some outsource houses charge by line of code, so they used to deliver a lot of unnecessary extra code.

But outsourcing can be good, if you search in the right places. I'm based in Ecuador, but work for people in the US; it's a completely virtual team, as we've worked with designers and coders from Argentina, Japan, Croatia, and who knows what other countries.

I think that if you're going to outsource, you should look for independent developers, and above all, build a strong business relationship (so that your growth means their growth as well).

As an independent "outsourcer" (not really, as I've worked with the same people since 2004) I try to deliver the best, so I keep getting work. Over here, somebody like me could earn about $500 to $800 a month, so it's in my best interest to offer a good service to earn way more (I earn more in a month than some people I know earn in a year), and even so, the hiring company saves money because I earn less than people in the US :)

Indeed. I think this is simply a case of a bad resource. Many non-US resources are fantastic. Just have to work around the time differences.

I've been waiting for this rant...

On one occasion my brother actually found himself teaching the Indian how code who still jacked it. The "off" within cdata made me laugh btw.

My personal worst was spending tons of time and money working with a great seo company only to find out the owner hired some blackhat s.o.b. to promote the same f*cking phrases. Within two days we had the third spot on page 1. Two days later we were blacklisted. The worst part was the 16 hour days I put in to meet the deadline and walked into WTF happened to my site anyway.

Believe it or not there are competent indian programmers. Unfortunately managerial types won't hire them at a decent rate. what comes out of the bargain is pissed of programmers who aren't above sabotaging a project surrounded by idiots.
Sure some indian programmers make $20 an hour. Many don't, and at best are data entry types that shouldn't be near code.

During the boom days around here the average programmer made $150 an hour. The average Indian immigrant made $150 an hour as a programmer but half of that went back to india in taxes. When the boom went bust all the H1 visa's dried up and they were deported. I know guys with freaking Masters degrees who would rather work at a 7-11 then go back to india and be a programmer.

I'd hire this guy:
http://blog.tourismthailand.org/Euge...2008/12/34.jpg

Anyone else hoping that was going to be a picture of Ben Jabituya? :D

been waiting years to post this pic...
http://board.flashkit.com/board/

</macho man>

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Originally Posted by gerbick

I've been waiting for this picture...

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Fixed.

You've just earned one free random edit... might be a past post, might be a future post... but it's gonna happen ;)

A year ago we were falling behind on a project and decided to outsource part of it to someone in the US. What they built technically worked but when we started wanting to make changes in the next version we looked at it and the code was an absolute disaster. The moral of the story is that there are good and bad developers everywhere you go. Make sure that you know what you are getting.

But they have those cool headdresses.

Less thinly veiled racism people.

other then verbal communications issues i've never had a problem.. then again i dont outsource anything..

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Originally Posted by gerbick

Less thinly veiled racism people.

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You mean like generalizing the quality of work of an entire country full of people? Sure thing. Get right on it.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Want to rant about things, so be it. Want to continue down a downward spiral, I might have something to say about that.

Ahh the joys of OOP

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Architecture, for one, is non-existent. This application should be a single SWF that runs off of a few classes. Instead there are a dozen swfs and DOZENS of AS files,

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This is what happens when someone buys the press pack without a clue to what it really means.
Boss: I WANT IT OOP do you get what I'm saying I WANT OOP
Worker: I'll give ya freaking OOP if that's what you want. It'll be so freakin OOP you'll freak.

Worker: If you want OOP you don't want AS3. :P
*fire dances out of thread*

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Originally Posted by gerbick

Less thinly veiled racism people.

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Well if it's more overt racism you want I'm sure we can oblige you... ;)

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Originally Posted by gerbick

Less thinly veiled racism people.

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So, you don't mean 'Felipe,' right? ;)

I hate loosing work to Indians.

Code is in the eyes of the beholder.

I've seen very functional yet simplistic as1 that makes me think a middle school kid did it thru extremely complicated "look how challenging my coding can be" and "I'll show you who can code you'll never be able to figure this out so you'll have to hire me for updates.

Smart outsourcing requires you to work to set standards for whoever you send the work off to. The less you specifiy the more "Mad Genuis Creative spur" you'll get in return. When you outsource you also need to let them know that they will be held accountable for the final product. Back when I was a web developer I would sub contract graphics artists for certain projects. I never had a Diego Rivera incident because I would give clear cut instructions and do follow ups. If something wasn't working I'd let the graphic artists know.

I think outsourcing has it's place. Not for everything, but it's a reality these days and you have to embrace it for the other benefits you get. Frankly, India's IIT's were a great government investment and put them on this playing field. The U.S. would never do anything like that, for fear or being labeled socialists.

I do think, however, that you have to choose your vendor wisely. My boss made a very poor choice, a lot of things made it clear that they didn't have their stuff together. In fact, the owner, worked for a larger company and split off to start his own.

Secondly, managers who have not worked in the field can be idiots. They don't understand that you can't just tell someone to 'build something' and it happens without problems. You need clear requirements and specifications, and an idea of what it actually is that you want. Unfortunately, I don't work for such a man. He asks for specs because I say we need them, then doesn't read them, and gets upset when I explain how reality contradicts his ideas unless you're willing to spend a lot of time and money, which he isn't.

Third, unless you're paying decent money, your code will always be less than perfect. Stuff gets re-used, because they promise speed and turnaround. That means re-using and breaking things up among as many people as possible. Code isn't cohesive or designed, it's slapped together. That doesn't mean it's awful like the stuff I'm dealing with, but when it comes time to extend or modify, you're not going to be satisfied.

The bottom line is too many business decision makers think outsourcing will make all the pain go away, but it doesn't. You still need to specify and manage, and they don't want to do that.

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The bottom line is too many business decision makers think outsourcing will make all the pain go away, but it doesn't.

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And there you have it. If you treat projects as a liabilty that is what they become.

I just had to drop this link into the discussion.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32172403...orld_business/

See Page2

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A study by Duke University professor and Harvard researcher Vivek Wadhwa, for example, found that among Chinese nationals who emigrated to the U.S. and later returned home, 72 percent said they thought professional opportunities were better in China. Among Indians who returned home, 56 percent said the same of their country.

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