What do u think about God?

If you want to get my opinion, release you your thoughts of god as an entity.

Think of men today, but in 50 years - we would be able to duplicate and maybe even generate humen beings, and cretures all.
So, if we generated 2 people - one man, and one woman. We stuck them on a planet that is capable of inhabitant. We tell them we are god, we are capable of everything.

We keep monitering everything they do. When we want a leader to come up, we insert a sead to a mother of a hero.

Of course, one day, someone will find a better way to generate humen beings, and we'll make another version of our test, but we won't delete the one currently working.

That's about what "god" did... He left us, to a better version - but miracles happen because some of the control pannel supervivors look at our prare hear and there...

This is freaky and scary, but it does actually make some sense. Maybe we are our own gods.

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Originally posted by dainbramaged
[sfx: DING DING]

CyberSaint comes out swinging. He unleashes a blinding fury of punches, jabs, and hooks. He's fighting like a man POSSESSED. HOLY MACKEREL!! Look at him go. The crowd's going nuts!! [sfx: crowd roar]

Uh, oh, Visionray is laughing!! Not ONE of CyberSaint's punches has landed!! Visionray dances a bit...he reaches back...waaaaaay back....that's gonna be one hell of a punch.....[sfx: crowd gasps]

WAIT!!! UNBE-FREAKIN-LIEVABLE!! CyberSaint has knocked himself down! [sfx: crowd cheering VI-SION-RAY..VI-SION-RAY...)He's face down on the mat with a nosebleed....will he get up?!?

You should sell tickets to this thread!!

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!! CyberSaint has knocked himself down! [sfx: crowd cheering VI-SION-RAY..VI-SION-RAY...)He's face down on the mat with a nosebleed....will he get up?!?

No. I won't.
If it makes anyone here feel better to envision me lying on the floor bleeding, well so be it. This is not supposed to be a fight. I certainly have not viewed that way. I thought this was a healthy debate- and if it is being viewed as a fight then I will gladly throw in the towell and let the "victory" go to whoever wants it, because I don't. I'm not looking to win anything here, or beat an opponent of any kind.

Visionray, thank you for sharing your opinions with me - they were good ones. I hope I have not offended you in anything I have said.

I won't throw punches here, people!
I have answered the question posed on this thread, so I will be done with this now!
:)



[Edited by CyberSaint77 on 07-16-2001 at 04:25 PM]

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Originally posted by Visionray

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Originally posted by swampy

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Originally posted by Visionray


Ok CyberSaint, what you went through can only be explained medically. Fact of the matter is, some doctors dont know why certain things happen, but that is the nature of science, and as time goes on, science is answering more and more questions.

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Ok. I'm re joining this discussion because it has just got interesting.

Visionrays point can be proven. Look up "salem witch trials" on Google and read one of the theories that it was caused by a fungus, not by witch craft or the devil.

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Im glad you mentioned the Salem Witch Trials Swampy. It is a perfect example of how humans deduce an occurance to the existence of some type of supernatural power without adequate scientific research. The witch trials was an interesting case. I read up on it awhile back and totally agree with the fungus theory. Most scientist who have studied the witch trials agree with it too.
From what I remember, there is a type of fungus that grows on molded bread. This fungus is what some of the hallucinagenic chemicals of LSD is extracted from. The fact that there is evidence of this fungus and that they know the populous was eating this is the reason why some people began to act crazy. Since they couldnt explain it, well it must have been demons right? Unfortunatley, people were killed because of these ignorant beliefs.
I suggest anyone read a book by Carl Sagan call "The Demon Haunted World". The book sets out to disprove the existence of supernatural phenomenon. It does this based on adequate scientific research and theory. "theory" once again meaning the scientific term for something that has been proven over and over again.

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Tell me what evolution theory based on?

close the thread ... this is not good....

why close this thread? how are we ever supposed to understand the world if we don't talk about it? There haven't been too many rude or offensive comments in this thread.

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Originally posted by re·ac·tion·ary

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Originally posted by Visionray

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Originally posted by Mac8myPC
God is real.

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Speak for yourself please.....
Thats a bold statement saying "God is real" Maybe he is to you, but please dont state it like its a proven fact.

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But, if you need proof that God exist I suggest you attend some creationist lectures or creationist/evolutionist debates. Not all creationist debaters are great, but I listened to a lecture given once by a creationist in which he proved, using science that God exist. Don't ask me what he said. It's far to complicated to explain over this board. But he proved using statistics, biology, and math that there is no way this world could have come into existance without a Designer (those are the words he used.
[Edited by re·ac·tion·ary on 07-16-2001 at 04:08 PM]

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Ok there are a number of things I want to discuss now. Just because you went to a lecture by a creationist who "proved" that God exists doesnt make it valid. Sorry to break it to you, but the existence of God has never been "proven". its impossible to prove Gods existence. If it has been, then there wouldnt even be an argument about it would there? Im sorry, but I dont believe that guys argument for a second, and there are plently of scientist who would have plenty of counterarguments for that guy. How can you say that stories in the Bible are proven? The same peice of literature that claims the earth began 5,000 years ago?
Also, here is a fact. Creationism and evolution really have nothing to do with each other. You cannot prove that creationism exists, however, you can prove that evolution is occuring. Keep in mind, just because you beleive in God, doesnt mean you have to shut out the facts of evolutionary. You can believe if you want that God created evolution. I just choose not to because I think its a creationist cop out argument.
How can anyone not "believe" in evolution? There is nothing to believe or not to believe!! Do you not believe that 2+2 =4? Do you not believe that the sky is blue? or that the earth is round? You cant not believe in the facts!
Look there are geniouses out there like Stephen Hawkings who dismiss the creationist argument completely and aquaint the beginning of the earth to the big bang. There is an abundance of scientific evidence to prove the big bang happens. Stephen Hawkings was actually the one who proved it. Cosmologists and physisists are probably the most incredible geniouses the earth has ever seen.
Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Darwin, Hubble, Einstein, and Hawkings. All of them challenged the traditional theories and we are better off and smarter because of them. Some of them were even jailed by religious zealots who refused to believe in science. They would ask, How could it be possible that the earth was round? How could it be possible that the earth revolves around the sun? Now we have the scientific evidence to back up these theories. In time, science will discover new things about the world. Where would we be without science? For one thing, we wouldnt be talking on this forum. Think about what would happen if you took a computer back in time a thousand years ago. What would people think of it? They would assume it was either alien, or and act of God. Why? Because they didnt have the scientific evidence explain anything else.

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Originally posted by Visionray


This fungus is what some of the hallucinagenic chemicals of LSD is extracted from. The fact that there is evidence of this fungus and that they know the populous was eating this is the reason why some people began to act crazy. Since they couldnt explain it, well it must have been demons right? Unfortunatley, people were killed because of these ignorant beliefs.

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the fungus grows on wheat and was indeed baked into bread. This fungus is used to make LSD.

There was a more recent case in France when a batch of wheat was contamintaed and people saw "demons" and threw themselves from windows.

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Originally posted by CyberSaint77

Visionray, thank you for sharing your opinions with me - they were good ones. I hope I have not offended you in anything I have said.

I won't throw punches here, people!
I have answered the question posed on this thread, so I will be done with this now!
:)
[Edited by CyberSaint77 on 07-16-2001 at 04:25 PM]

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You didnt offend me, and I hope I didnt offend you either. We're just having an age old discussion thats all. Like I said before, I have no problem with what people believe. My background in science and anthropology has led me to think differently I guess. There are a lot of people whom I studied with who would be flaming at a thread like this. I tend to trust science and all its discoveries, and realize that science hasnt answered all of lifes questions. Someday hopefully it will.

Viva Darwin!!! :D

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Originally posted by re·ac·tion·ary

Here is one Bible based fact you can all think about. The Bible speaks of circumsision being done after I believe 3 days or something like that.

We know know that it takes the exact same amount of time for our bodies to create the chemical that causes blod to clot. Durring the time the bible was writen they didn't know that. So how would they know to wait for three days (or however long it was. I don't have a bible with me right now)?

That's easy, God told them.

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The ancient Egyptians used to eat mouldy bread to ward off fever (penecilin). they beleived in several gods, different to yours.

The Celts and native American Indians used to chew willow tree bark to nullify pain ( the bark has since been found to contain aspirin). they did not share your bekleive in one god.

The Vikings and Ancient Celts used to advocate trepanning 10,000 years ago, a medical technique which is attracting growing interest. They certainly did not share your veiw of God.




[Edited by swampy on 07-16-2001 at 05:09 PM]

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Originally posted by Visionray

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Originally posted by re·ac·tion·ary

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Originally posted by Visionray

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Originally posted by Mac8myPC
God is real.

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Speak for yourself please.....
Thats a bold statement saying "God is real" Maybe he is to you, but please dont state it like its a proven fact.

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But, if you need proof that God exist I suggest you attend some creationist lectures or creationist/evolutionist debates. Not all creationist debaters are great, but I listened to a lecture given once by a creationist in which he proved, using science that God exist. Don't ask me what he said. It's far to complicated to explain over this board. But he proved using statistics, biology, and math that there is no way this world could have come into existance without a Designer (those are the words he used.
[Edited by re·ac·tion·ary on 07-16-2001 at 04:08 PM]

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Ok there are a number of things I want to discuss now. Just because you went to a lecture by a creationist who "proved" that God exists doesnt make it valid. Sorry to break it to you, but the existence of God has never been "proven". its impossible to prove Gods existence. If it has been, then there wouldnt even be an argument about it would there? Im sorry, but I dont believe that guys argument for a second, and there are plently of scientist who would have plenty of counterarguments for that guy. How can you say that stories in the Bible are proven? The same peice of literature that claims the earth began 5,000 years ago?
Also, here is a fact. Creationism and evolution really have nothing to do with each other. You cannot prove that creationism exists, however, you can prove that evolution is occuring. Keep in mind, just because you beleive in God, doesnt mean you have to shut out the facts of evolutionary. You can believe if you want that God created evolution. I just choose not to because I think its a creationist cop out argument.
How can anyone not "believe" in evolution? There is nothing to believe or not to believe!! Do you not believe that 2+2 =4? Do you not believe that the sky is blue? or that the earth is round? You cant not believe in the facts!
Look there are geniouses out there like Stephen Hawkings who dismiss the creationist argument completely and aquaint the beginning of the earth to the big bang. There is an abundance of scientific evidence to prove the big bang happens. Stephen Hawkings was actually the one who proved it. Cosmologists and physisists are probably the most incredible geniouses the earth has ever seen.
Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Darwin, Hubble, Einstein, and Hawkings. All of them challenged the traditional theories and we are better off and smarter because of them. Some of them were even jailed by religious zealots who refused to believe in science. They would ask, How could it be possible that the earth was round? How could it be possible that the earth revolves around the sun? Now we have the scientific evidence to back up these theories. In time, science will discover new things about the world. Where would we be without science? For one thing, we wouldnt be talking on this forum. Think about what would happen if you took a computer back in time a thousand years ago. What would people think of it? They would assume it was either alien, or and act of God. Why? Because they didnt have the scientific evidence explain anything else.

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The Big Bang hasn't be PROVEN any more than the existance of God has. Evolution hasn't either. They still haven't found a missing link. Evolution is based off of theories, not proven facts just like any religion. A lot of "Science" is based off of theory. No, you can't believe in both. That is a cop out answer.

To me, the creationist I heard speak PROVED it to me, because he used hard core scientific facts to support to bible. You can't argue with molecular structure or proven statistics, which is what he used. He used science. That was my point.

He went into great detail explaining how two sexes could not have evolved the way they did. The statistics of that happening are incredibly against it.

This guy had a lot of really good arguments. I promise. I don't consider myself an idiot and would never believe something so strongly without researching it. I spent most of my life as a non-christian.

And for the sake of sanity, I'm not taking anything personal or trying to flame anyone. I don't think anyone else is either. I just want to keep this debate on the up and up and not offend.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CyberSaint77
[B]

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Originally posted by dainbramaged
[sfx: DING DING]


If it makes anyone here feel better to envision me lying on the floor bleeding, well so be it. This is not supposed to be a fight. I certainly have not viewed that way. I thought this was a healthy debate- and if it is being viewed as a fight then I will gladly throw in the towell and let the "victory" go to whoever wants it, because I don't. I'm not looking to win anything here, or beat an opponent of any kind.

Visionray, thank you for sharing your opinions with me - they were good ones. I hope I have not offended you in anything I have said.

I won't throw punches here, people!
I have answered the question posed on this thread, so I will be done with this now!
:)



[Edited by CyberSaint77 on 07-16-2001 at 04:25 PM]

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Good grief...so sensitive. Well, it doesn't "make me feel better" picturing you with a nosebleed...it was what we call a metaphor. The whole boxing match/verbal sparring thing was. You'll find tons of them in the Bible. As far as not throwing punches...no, you probably didn't smack your monitor around, but you did throw around some exclamation marks ;)

So without metaphors I'll say clearly...I don't think you are making your point as well as Visionray. I'm not in the middle of the god debate with you guys--I just like to see people make a real point when they argue about religion. I think there are a lot of fascinating viewpoints about this. I like to see people make their point with a LOGICAL argument. The only way I have ever seen a christian come out on top in one of these discussions is when they could separate themselves enough to be objective, and then be brilliant with their logic. I am not saying the christians are right, but I am also not saying the non-christians are right. I'm talking about making a point well.

And passive aggressive, self-pitying jabs at me for making a joking metaphor are NOT the way to come out on top. I just thought you could do better...that's all. I really didn't think ANYONE would think you had a nosebleed or were in a fistfight.

Did the dinosaurs believe in god?

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Originally posted by dainbramaged
Did the dinosaurs believe in god?

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If the bible is to be beleived then no, as they were not furnished with the means with which to make the choice. Only humans were.

God OWNZ......all of us. He made us, and we are his, so wouldn't you want to be with him when you pass on?

Ok, lets say you do not believe that or you have yor own god or you have your way to God.......I believe you are sincere in that, but sincerly wrong.
Don't believe? It is still true weither you believe or not, and it does not change for you, Buddha, or Higha Christna, etc.(or however you spell that).
Truth is Truth......not an opinion or how you view it. It is just that way and that is it.

I don't know, but for some reason what I said a few posts up this page makes the best sence!!!

But no one red it!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally posted by boxcrash
God OWNZ......all of us. He made us, and we are his, so wouldn't you want to be with him when you pass on?

Ok, lets say you do not believe that or you have yor own god or you have your way to God.......I believe you are sincere in that, but sincerly wrong.
Don't believe? It is still true weither you believe or not, and it does not change for you, Buddha, or Higha Christna, etc.(or however you spell that).
Truth is Truth......not an opinion or how you view it. It is just that way and that is it.

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You don't know what you're talking about!!! Buddha - wasn't a god! he was a regular humen being, and he said it himself a thousend times. He just had a view of life, and he teached this point of view to a lot of other students.

God isn't truth, someone here said - you can't prove god, he's right.
But, can you actually prove what you did 10 seconds ago? No. You imagine yourself doing it, see yourself doing it, so you say you did it. But can you actually really prove? How do you devide memory and imagination, you say what is more likely and automaticly choose the memory - but you can't be 100% sure. Prove means evidence, but you can't prove anything as I show you. Time has no dimensions, that's why you can't prove nothing. God could have been a memory of adam and eve or imagination.

But, what you can imagine, is that there is something that holds the universe from collapsing, call it god, but don't say its truth!

(This is my 1221 post - nice num! ;))

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Originally posted by MasterShin
I don't know, but for some reason what I said a few posts up this page makes the best sence!!!

But no one red it!!!!!!!!!!!

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I read it and it was an interesting theory which could hold water given the race to create human clones that seems to be going on at the moment.

ok, so some of us believe in God, and some of us don't. What I have a hard time with is how so many non-believers and believers (not all but many) have such a hard time understanding why the other side believes the way they do.

I was having this discussion with a friend of mine early this morning. One of our other friends has the hardest time comprehending why some people don't believe in God. He just doesn't get it. I think it's easy to understand how some don't believe in something they don't see.

I also don't see how so many non-believers don't understand why those of us who do believe, believe the way we do. I think many have just watched to many religious network programing or had bad church experiences. I think there is a stereotype of dumbness that goes along with being christian. It's really sad. But to say you don't understand how someone can believe what they do is just stupid. We all have beliefs. And those of us who truely 100% believe or don't believe in something have reasons for it.

My reasons for believeing started simple. I started by believing in a higher power in general. I looked up at the sky and found it impossible to comprehend how the universe could just be there. Where does it end? It has to end somewhere. But it can't end. It keeps going and going. There's no possibility of a border. But how can something go on forever? The human mind will never comprehend this. If this world we live in is not just an illusion created by some higher power then it's just not possible that we're here.


I later descovered the Bible. I have read it and studied it. It's an amazing piece of literature. There are so many places where things tie together. But the part that amazes me more than anything else is how it's the ultimate guide to live. You can literally reference just about any aspect of life, or morality to the bible. Could man possibly write a book that has an answer for every one of lifes moral problems? And it doesn't controdict itself like so many think it does. I've yet to find any scripture that blatently contradicts another. The old testement and new testement might have some contradictions, but one is the old law and one is the new. It's a very pollished piece of literature. I just don't think man could have organized such durring the periods that the Bible originated.

And as far as the comments about christians pushing their beliefs on others. I'm really tired of that and I feel intitled to take personal offense. Non-believers can be much more offensive. But thier purposes are different. Christian don't push their beliefs on other just to make a point. They do it because they belive in what they are doing and because they care. And the majority of us believe that if you don't believe in christ then you don't go to heaven. So when we share our beliefs with people its just because we don't want to see you burn in hell. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Don't hate me cause i believe people go to hell.

And not all churchs are rich. My church operates off of a very tight budget.

I just think it's wrong to stereotype religion or non-religion. I'm outta time and don't have time to edit this posts cause I gotta go home. I hope I don't sound stupid.

You said ok, but the part about chritians not forcing religeon?

I'm jewish, and I know that misioners came to my land, and killed whoever resisted.

I don't understand how you can say god is the one who makes the border to the universe, because then who makes the border to god?

The thing you forgot to say, is that people think they can define the universe, life or anything.
We are here not because any reason, we're just here.
You may say you find your purpose in this world, but you don't really have one.

The best way to think of life, is that it's a series of obsticales towards death that is the prize. But, it doesn't mean that living is wrong or useless - do you really want to get to death with running the race? Winning without playing? It's pathetic...

That's why only when you'll die you'll get a small hand of this life, till then - keep on Flashing ;)