What do u think about God?

I was born into a christian family
I was baptised through my parent's faith in God
I was confirmed through my belief in God.
that was 6 years or so ago... and now I have varying beliefs none of which would be held in regard with christian standings.

A few years ago I was going through an emotional breakdown. Through my darkest hour, God spoke to me. I had lost my faith in him years before, but at the time I needed something the most... he was there. That is what I believed at the time, yet now. I see that as a moment when I needed to believe in ~SOMETHING, ANYTHING~ And at the time, christianity was around me, so I latched onto God.

Yet now I seem to believe more in the Goddess. Pagan and Wiccan theories have a lot to say. The witches of old have were to start with merely people who believed in many gods, but christianity burst into their world and told them they were wrong. If you did not believe in what the monks and the missionaries were telling you, then you were persicuted for being witches -tried and convicted. Just because for years and years you believed that the goddess watched over you - that God was not male... because you had an opinion that differed from the missionaries... you were ulimately killed.

Look through history and you see artifacts older than christianity... you see statues of gods. Fertility gods. You see that long ago, women were worshiped because they gave birth. They were the creators. Then men got all huffy and thought - we cannot have this... let us get our own god and make him greater. Okay, so this is kind harsh... but if you look at some of the other religions, Jesus was just a man. His diciples had better ideas than him. He was not the only one crucified.

Before Christians get up on their high horse... I have studied the bible at Uni. I actually went around teaching "Two ways to live"... but the whole time I thought... why should my belief be forced upon someone who's belief is just as strong as mine...? so I stopped.

People need to believe in something. whether it be God, a goddess, a flower, science... whatever... people need that in their life for reassurance.

Right now I practise something called "Aeldre ta maqik" it is an accient way... Personally I think it is a wonderful way. It allows for whatever YOU believe... and allows you to be right.

I plan on having kids one day - and I will have them baptised into chrisitanity, inducted into a circle... brought up believing in faeries elves and magic....

Flame me if you will... but remember...

Just Believe.

Your so right!

I forgot to say it, but I did a few magic spells that were so good! And that's not really godish...

Anyone reading - look into magic, because it's fun, and great when it works, believe me!!!

No question about,God is a female as found under the first matriarchal society which ruled first before the now existing patriarchal society.

Except I don't hold to any god beliefs in either society.

JP

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Originally posted by re·ac·tion·ary


The Big Bang hasn't be PROVEN any more than the existance of God has. Evolution hasn't either. They still haven't found a missing link. Evolution is based off of theories, not proven facts just like any religion. A lot of "Science" is based off of theory. No, you can't believe in both. That is a cop out answer.

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Oh dear my friend....You have not been reading my posts have you? You most certainly have not. First of all, the big bang is a theory and evolution is a theory. YES THEY ARE THEORIES!!!! As a said countless of times before. A "theory" in science is something that has been tested over and over and over again!!!!!!! There is a "theory" that the earth revolves around the sun, there is a "theory" that the earth is round"
Nothing becomes a "theory" in science untill is has been proven over and over again!!! So by saying that evolution is based on theory, your only giving credit to evolution as having taken place!! This is science my friend. And I know I am right. Ask any scientist what a "theory" is and you'll get the same answer.

Anyways, are you still trying to say that evolution isnt occuring? How do you explain the hundreds of bones that we have found in Oldovai Gorge? HOw do you explain Gregor Mendels groundbreaking research in genetics? These bones have been tested by carbon dating to be in excess of 1 millions years old!!!!!!!!!!!
How do you say that isnt true. Are these people lying?? Give me a break! I myself have studied in college the skulls of Australopithecines and HomoErectus to notice the gradual change in bone structure in human evolution. It is all documented. It is just plain foolish to argue against evolution. There is too much evidence. Like I said before. Most scientists arent concerned anymore ifevolution is occuring. They are studying how it is occuring.

And yes, the big bang is a "theory" that (yes I'll say it again) has been proven over and over again.) Read the book "A Brief History of Time" and you'll understand how Hawkins and other British scientists came to the conclusion that the big bang was caused by the "cingular". You will learn how it has become the most excepted "theory" in science as to how the universe was created.
[Edited by Visionray on 07-16-2001 at 07:53 PM]

And might I add one more comment.
Just because I dont believe in God doesnt mean that I dont see the beauty of what is the universe. The world is an amazing place. That doesnt mean I think God created it. Amazing things happen on earth, Im just trying to keep an open mind. If I go to "hell" because I dont beleive in Jesus, well, at least I lived my life being able to think for myself. And someone mentioned here that Christians push other people to believe in Jesus because if you dont then you will go to hell, and Christians just dont want to see anyone go to hell.
So.....your telling me that if you are a boy who grows up in Afganistan, or India, or China, or Nepal, and you have no choice but to believe in something else, then you are going to HELL? Well, then its a sad world and God is a heartless individual. No offense, but does anyone see the reasoning behind this?

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Originally posted by Tlaloc
[B]

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Originally posted by Reen

so cheers to all the flasher and flasherets which keeps up the good work with or without the help from above :)

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nice post Reen.


I believe that god MAY exist, but the standard bearded GOD of christianity is definatly a man made diety.
-----------------------------cool facts--------------
1.)Know why you say AMEN after each prayer?....your invoking AMEN RA the sun god of the egyptians.

2.)both Jesus and Horus died to save humanity, only horus is a daily repeating death while Jesus is a one shot deal.

3.)the holy trinity existed in egypt: AMEN=Father, Amen-Ra=spirit, Horus=Son.

4.)Bothe egyptian and christian religions are the only ones where you are judged by the gods after death. (hindu/buddhism is more of a kharma-point system)

5.) christianity is actualy the child of the AMEN cult started with Akhenaton (sp). He was the only Pharoah to belive in only one god. The early jews embraced this underground religion and made it there own.


I in no way hope to beliddle someones beliefs, just open some eyes a tiny bit wider.



Interesting thought, but perhaps not "facts" as such... decide for yourself.

http://www2.prestel.co.uk/littleton/re5_amen.htm

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God was created from people who could not explain some things and they assigned everything unexplainable to a higher power. You, yourself is the only one holding your fate in your hands. Do the most you can with your life and wait for anyone to make life easier for you. Andele andele.

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Originally posted by Visionray

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Originally posted by re·ac·tion·ary


The Big Bang hasn't be PROVEN any more than the existance of God has. Evolution hasn't either. They still haven't found a missing link. Evolution is based off of theories, not proven facts just like any religion. A lot of "Science" is based off of theory. No, you can't believe in both. That is a cop out answer.

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Oh dear my friend....You have not been reading my posts have you? You most certainly have not. First of all, the big bang is a theory and evolution is a theory. YES THEY ARE THEORIES!!!! As a said countless of times before. A "theory" in science is something that has been tested over and over and over again!!!!!!! There is a "theory" that the earth revolves around the sun, there is a "theory" that the earth is round"
Nothing becomes a "theory" in science untill is has been proven over and over again!!! So by saying that evolution is based on theory, your only giving credit to evolution as having taken place!! This is science my friend. And I know I am right. Ask any scientist what a "theory" is and you'll get the same answer.

Anyways, are you still trying to say that evolution isnt occuring? How do you explain the hundreds of bones that we have found in Oldovai Gorge? HOw do you explain Gregor Mendels groundbreaking research in genetics? These bones have been tested by carbon dating to be in excess of 1 millions years old!!!!!!!!!!!
How do you say that isnt true. Are these people lying?? Give me a break! I myself have studied in college the skulls of Australopithecines and HomoErectus to notice the gradual change in bone structure in human evolution. It is all documented. It is just plain foolish to argue against evolution. There is too much evidence. Like I said before. Most scientists arent concerned anymore ifevolution is occuring. They are studying how it is occuring.

And yes, the big bang is a "theory" that (yes I'll say it again) has been proven over and over again.) Read the book "A Brief History of Time" and you'll understand how Hawkins and other British scientists came to the conclusion that the big bang was caused by the "cingular". You will learn how it has become the most excepted "theory" in science as to how the universe was created.
[Edited by Visionray on 07-16-2001 at 07:53 PM]

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Wow Visionary...Id like to know what university you went to...cause all the other world renowned ones certainly HAVENT boldly claimed to have found ANY missing links.

You seem to be sure about your facts? I think you should study some more papers on the conclusions of many of these findings, I`m at work at the moment, And I will gladly provide you, on this thread documented evidence by evolutionists themselves regarding what You claim to be Facts, remember you call it Fact then you also say its a Theory. And like ALL theories they HAVENT BEEN PROVED thats why they are called theories, so the arent Facts.

FACT: NO conclusive missing link has EVER been found to link the Transitional evolution between one species to another.YES NO LINK HAS YET BEEN FOUND
Anything found so far has only been interpreted by very Keen evolutionists as been that link, but nothing CONCLUSIVE has yet been established after thorough study.

the big bang thoery is very credible and is most likely how the universe came about...that doesnt eliminate the existence of a God, if anything it proves it.

NO FOSSILS HAVE YET been found to prove the transition of species as I have mentioned, and to date we dont see around us this continuing evolution of species...more on that when I get home.

FACT: Carbon dating is ONLY accurate ap to 5,000 years then ,if you have studied this you would have been taught that Carbon dating method is NOT accurate at all for periods longer than 5,000 years.

The bible does NOT say that the Earth was "Created" in 7 days, only peoples interpretation of it, its logical that many aspects of our Erath and universe have been around for Millions or even Billions of years. Rather a creative day could entail many thousands of years.

I`ll get onto Australeopithacaeus (Southern man) and also the other Homopithacaeous when I get home.

With all due respect, I dont hink you should take as gospel what it is you were told at school, but rather look at the documented research papers that have been published by many Scientists, and they should be more than an eye opener to you.

I will post some when I get home tonight.

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Originally posted by Tony Saffioti


Wow Visionary...Id like to know what university you went to...cause all the other world renowned ones certainly HAVENT boldly claimed to have found ANY missing links.

You seem to be sure about your facts? I think you should study some more papers on the conclusions of many of these findings, I`m at work at the moment, And I will gladly provide you, on this thread documented evidence by evolutionists themselves regarding what You claim to be Facts, remember you call it Fact then you also say its a Theory. And like ALL theories they HAVENT BEEN PROVED thats why they are called theories, so the arent Facts.

FACT: NO conclusive missing link has EVER been found to link the Transitional evolution between one species to another.YES NO LINK HAS YET BEEN FOUND
Anything found so far has only been interpreted by very Keen evolutionists as been that link, but nothing CONCLUSIVE has yet been established after thorough study.

the big bang thoery is very credible and is most likely how the universe came about...that doesnt eliminate the existence of a God, if anything it proves it.

NO FOSSILS HAVE YET been found to prove the transition of species as I have mentioned, and to date we dont see around us this continuing evolution of species...more on that when I get home.

FACT: Carbon dating is ONLY accurate ap to 5,000 years then ,if you have studied this you would have been taught that Carbon dating method is NOT accurate at all for periods longer than 5,000 years.

The bible does NOT say that the Earth was "Created" in 7 days, only peoples interpretation of it, its logical that many aspects of our Erath and universe have been around for Millions or even Billions of years. Rather a creative day could entail many thousands of years.

I`ll get onto Australeopithacaeus (Southern man) and also the other Homopithacaeous when I get home.

With all due respect, I dont hink you should take as gospel what it is you were told at school, but rather look at the documented research papers that have been published by many Scientists, and they should be more than an eye opener to you.

I will post some when I get home tonight.

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I went to Syracuse University in New York, and majored in Anthropology and Biology to answer your question. In fact, we were given documented research papers that have been published by scientists.
Your are right, however, that Carbon Dating is only used to date back 5000 years. That was my mistake. I know what it is, I meant to say radioactive dating. Sorry about that.
Anyways, Ive found it hard to explain the difference betweenm theory and fact in this thread so here is a quote I just found by the National Academy of Sciences. Please read this carefully.

"The theory of evolution has withstood the tests of science many, many times and the debate [among scientists] centers only on the finer details of how it took place, not whether it took place; evolution is to be classed among theories which are supported by evidence, and which survive the rigorous testing of the scientific method, like the germ theory of disease and the theory of gravity, whereas creation is to be classed among theories that have long been invalidated by observations and experiments."

You see, even here they call gravity a "theory". So are you saying gravity doesnt exist because its only a theory?


Here is another quote
"Evolution is the central organizing theory of biology, and has fundamental importance in other sciences as well. It is no more controversial in scientific circles than gravity or electricity is...And, regardless of whether the changes in plants and animals are gradual or sporadic, the facts remain that plants and animals have evolved over time. There is no scientific dispute that evolution has occurred and continues to occur; this is why evolution is regarded as a scientific fact."

I hope this clears up what I was trying to say. This is what I was trying to get at. The words "theory" and "fact" have different meanings when you are talking about scientific research obviously. You would know that if you have studied science, not theology.
You see my point?? Gravity is a theory. So is evolution. They are both so heavily supported by evidence that most scientists dont question their validity.

Yes I am aware of the missing link hypothesis. Scientists have however offered reasons for this. Paleontologists have only been able to uncover a certain amount of bones. Probably a few dozen solid specimes of our human ancestors. Does that mean that only a few dozen of these people existed? No. The geologic nature of the earth is a volatile and explosive, and over time, bones have been buried and melted in the underlying magma through earthquakes and faulting, rifting etc. Some parts of the earth havent experienced this and bones remain. I dont know how to explain this thouroghly, a geologist would do a better job so sorry.
Even if there is a missing link that we cant find. How do you explain the Australopithecines, Homo Erectus, and Homo Habilis? These are bones that scientists know are directly related to us. Scientists can study the genetic makeup of a species and tell how closely related it is to another species. You cant dispute genetic research my friend. Paleontologists have studied the skull structure of our ancestors, and they know how the human cranium evolved from this. They do this by studying the dentition, and saggital crest of out ancestors. There is PLENTY of evidence to support this.
Taking evolution to mean merely biological change, every scientist agrees that this is occurring today. The question is, how much has occurred over the history of life on earth? Also, taking evolution to mean the Darwinian mechanism of mutation and natural selection, nearly every scientist agrees that this occurs on the microevolutionary level. These are the facts. :D

You gotta to belive to know that God really exist.

Some people here that may said GOD DONT EXIST, never had experimented God in his lives.

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Originally posted by MasterShin
Your so right!

I forgot to say it, but I did a few magic spells that were so good! And that's not really godish...

Anyone reading - look into magic, because it's fun, and great when it works, believe me!!!

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Yeah sure the Pharoh's magicians did the magic to say, look I can do magic too as Moses did. But his snake ate theres. Also God is truth, he is the only God and that is truth.

Dimensions, Time, Life, Death, there is only one truth about each one. Not many, there is many ways to die but only one death. When you die you are dead.

So therefore there is one truth, it is true and if you do not believe, you believe a lie from the enemy.

The word says even the demons trembeled in fear and knew Jesus and who was and what he was to do.

Also by saying maybe God is a figment of Adam and Eve's memory you take partial truth of the word to heart, so why believe part and not all in whole?? You are open to the possibility of Adam and Eve but maybe not God or Jesus. That would be a hypocrite. That would be like saying I believe Flash is the best but DHTML is better, and not better in some ways but all.

If you are neither hot nor cold but luke warm he will spit you out of his mouth.


Also I know Buddha was a man, but he is a god to some. I believe that if you work all the time for possesions but say you do not worship money, but why else would you work, you are a lover of money and possesions.Therefore you cannot have two gods. You love one or the other. You love God/Jesus or you love yourself/your life, no options.

You know what Master Shin. You say you are Jewish, I know a man who was Jewish through and through. He now is a christian who loves the Lord so very much. His family dispises him, he lost his life for christ.

I lose who I am and my idenity to christ, I am an image of christ, that is where that lies, I lie in christ and christ in me.
You know what,he gave his life for you just as much as me and more. He spent 3 days in hell for you so if you chose him you would not. He was sick and smut for you so those who trust in him have the authority over that and do not have to be sick(BY his strips you are healed). He was persucuted and ridiculed, for you.......... For YOU.
And weither you believe or not I know he knows he died for you and you can not tell him any different, all you have to do is except it, and him, that is it. Is that so hard???

I once was very hard hearted, and you what I came to before I accepted him fully(while I was stoned and tripping) that if I die and there is no God then I rot in the ground, but if there is I die and burn in hell forever. So, not a chance I wanted to take. But that is not the reason I lived for him when I learned who he was, and how much he loved me even though I was WORTHLESS and am. Now that is love like no father on earth I ever had, or any ever will.:D

It is people like Boxcrash that make me so frustrated.

You are telling someone off because their personal beliefs are not the same as yours.

Here in sydney there is a preacher man that goes out on friday and saturday night and hassles people at the Town Hall Steps. He plays his music loud, corners people and condems those who do not sit and listen to him.

I understand why people want others to believe. From a christian's point of view the world will not be redeemed until everyone believes. In their opinion you either live their way, believing in christ.. or you go to hell.

Now if someone went around saying believe in me, for if you do not you will sponateously combust, everyone would just laugh!!

A belief is a personal thing. It is what YOU hold dear to yourself! So why go bible-bashing people and telling them they are wrong just because they do not see eye to eye with you??

I believe there was a man. A great man who created an amazing phenomonon. I also believe that there was evolution. I also cast spells (for myself, not upon nor against anyone)... I believe in the goddess and of gods...

but they are my beliefs... Who am I, as a single person, to go around and say to my neighbour "Your opinions are wrong. Think like me or your life is worthless"

If I was to say to you as designers.... My flash actionscripting is the only way to make a mouse trailer work, do it my way or your document will be ruined... I would be shot down in flames and branded narrowminded and what-not.... I would be flooded with people's view on how to do it another way, theories, facts and demonstrations....

see a similarity??

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Visionray

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I just found by the National Academy of Sciences. Please read this carefully.

"The theory of evolution has withstood the tests of science many, many times and the debate [among scientists] centers only on the finer details of how it took place, not whether it took place; evolution is to be classed among theories which are supported by evidence, and which survive the rigorous testing of the scientific method, like the germ theory of disease and the theory of gravity, whereas creation is to be classed among theories that have long been invalidated by observations and experiments."

You see, even here they call gravity a "theory". So are you saying gravity doesnt exist because its only a theory?

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Here is another quote

I hope this clears up what I was trying to say. This is what I was trying to get at. The words "theory" and "fact" have different meanings when you are talking about scientific research obviously. You would know that if you have studied science, not theology.
You see my point?? Gravity is a theory. So is evolution. They are both so heavily supported by evidence that most scientists dont question their validity.

Yes I am aware of the missing link hypothesis. Scientists have however offered reasons for this. Paleontologists have only been able to uncover a certain amount of bones. Probably a few dozen solid specimes of our human ancestors. Does that mean that only a few dozen of these people existed? No. The geologic nature of the earth is a volatile and explosive, and over time, bones have been buried and melted in the underlying magma through earthquakes and faulting, rifting etc. Some parts of the earth havent experienced this and bones remain. I dont know how to explain this thouroghly, a geologist would do a better job so sorry.
Even if there is a missing link that we cant find. How do you explain the Australopithecines, Homo Erectus, and Homo Habilis? These are bones that scientists know are directly related to us. Scientists can study the genetic makeup of a species and tell how closely related it is to another species. You cant dispute genetic research my friend. Paleontologists have studied the skull structure of our ancestors, and they know how the human cranium evolved from this. They do this by studying the dentition, and saggital crest of out ancestors. There is PLENTY of evidence to support this.
Taking evolution to mean merely biological change, every scientist agrees that this is occurring today. The question is, how much has occurred over the history of life on earth? Also, taking evolution to mean the Darwinian mechanism of mutation and natural selection, nearly every scientist agrees that this occurs on the microevolutionary level. These are the facts. :D

[/B]

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Well what would you expect a Science magazine to say about evolution, that there are great flaws in it? of course not.

Also with regards to a "Theory" it is just that Untill it is proved otherwise, Gravity Does exist, but it is still a "Theory" because we "Still" do NOT know how it actually works, Thats right whilst we know and see the effects of gravity, we still have not fully understood how it works

There may be realtionships between two species but that does NOT link the two in any way as though one came from the other, a similarity exists between Dinosaurs and reptiles/birds...dinosaurs in effect are unique although they had a physical appearence and structure like that of reptiles but their bone structure and composition was exactly like that of birds.

Also the facts on mutations have NEVER concluded that species mutate AT ALL. With regards to Australopithecaus and the other ( I will post more on this as I get home) These are assumed recontructions.

The theory of evolution is just that a "Theory" with a lot of holes, and as Scientists try to fill one hole they open up a dozen more. Not to mention the Scientific Fraud that has in the past taken place to try and "Cement" this theory as Fact, you dont believe this. Look at the experiments ( I will mention to you some later on).

Evolutionists try to explain a very simple case of being, into one that denies the existence of a creator, you only have to take as look at TWO very simpe examples. MALE and FEMALE...why the two??? this is totally absurd and contradictory to the theory of evolution..so why is it that we have both a Male and a Female?? Evolutionists will tell you that they are looking into it, the fact remains is that THEY dont know how it fits in with this theory. The real fact is that it DOESNT fit in because the two MALE and FEMALE were not the process of evolution, yet because Creationism is Anathema to many or nearly ALL evolutionists they cannot come to grips with the fact that maybe they are barking up the wrong tree. Just because we dont see something it dosent mean it dont exist.

Sorry when I get home I will have a bit more time...:)
[Edited by Tony Saffioti on 07-16-2001 at 11:08 PM]

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Originally posted by boxcrash

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Originally posted by MasterShin
Your so right!

I forgot to say it, but I did a few magic spells that were so good! And that's not really godish...

Anyone reading - look into magic, because it's fun, and great when it works, believe me!!!

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Yeah sure the Pharoh's magicians did the magic to say, look I can do magic too as Moses did. But his snake ate theres. Also God is truth, he is the only God and that is truth.

Dimensions, Time, Life, Death, there is only one truth about each one. Not many, there is many ways to die but only one death. When you die you are dead.

So therefore there is one truth, it is true and if you do not believe, you believe a lie from the enemy.

The word says even the demons trembeled in fear and knew Jesus and who was and what he was to do.

Also by saying maybe God is a figment of Adam and Eve's memory you take partial truth of the word to heart, so why believe part and not all in whole?? You are open to the possibility of Adam and Eve but maybe not God or Jesus. That would be a hypocrite. That would be like saying I believe Flash is the best but DHTML is better, and not better in some ways but all.

If you are neither hot nor cold but luke warm he will spit you out of his mouth.


Also I know Buddha was a man, but he is a god to some. I believe that if you work all the time for possesions but say you do not worship money, but why else would you work, you are a lover of money and possesions.Therefore you cannot have two gods. You love one or the other. You love God/Jesus or you love yourself/your life, no options.

You know what Master Shin. You say you are Jewish, I know a man who was Jewish through and through. He now is a christian who loves the Lord so very much. His family dispises him, he lost his life for christ.

I lose who I am and my idenity to christ, I am an image of christ, that is where that lies, I lie in christ and christ in me.
You know what,he gave his life for you just as much as me and more. He spent 3 days in hell for you so if you chose him you would not. He was sick and smut for you so those who trust in him have the authority over that and do not have to be sick(BY his strips you are healed). He was persucuted and ridiculed, for you.......... For YOU.
And weither you believe or not I know he knows he died for you and you can not tell him any different, all you have to do is except it, and him, that is it. Is that so hard???

I once was very hard hearted, and you what I came to before I accepted him fully(while I was stoned and tripping) that if I die and there is no God then I rot in the ground, but if there is I die and burn in hell forever. So, not a chance I wanted to take. But that is not the reason I lived for him when I learned who he was, and how much he loved me even though I was WORTHLESS and am. Now that is love like no father on earth I ever had, or any ever will.:D

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This post is unbelievable. Totally insane. I am completely lost for words.

You just dismissed Master Shin because he is jewish.
[Edited by Visionray on 07-17-2001 at 12:00 AM]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tony Saffioti


Well what would you expect a Science magazine to say about evolution, that there are great flaws in it? of course not.

The National Academy of Sciences is not a magazine.
"The National Academy of Sciences (NAS) is a private, non-profit, self-perpetuating society of distinguished scholars engaged in scientific and engineering research, dedicated to the furtherance of science and technology and to their use for the general welfare." Thats a quote from their website.

Also with regards to a "Theory" it is just that Untill it is proved otherwise, Gravity Does exist, but it is still a "Theory" because we "Still" do NOT know how it actually works, Thats right whilst we know and see the effects of gravity, we still have not fully understood how it works

Actually the theory of gravity is well understood by scientists. Where are you getting your information? What scientists know of gravity today, is a little different from what Isacc Newton proposed. Einstein contributed to the theory of gravity with his "general relativity" theory. (which is now the proper term for the gravity theory). Cosmologists and physicists and mathmeticians learned a tremendous amount about gravity from Einstein. After Einstein, Stephen Hawkins and Edwin Hubble
explored Einsteins general relativty theory even further, and have since discovered exactly how the moon is drawn towards the earth. -A cone like warp in time space.
Scientists have a solid foundation of gravity. Ever heard of quantom gravity? There is a tremendous amount of research on it. Click here for info and tell me they dont know what they're talking about.
http://www.iop.org/Journals/CQG
Plain and simple, scientist know a great deal about gravatational pull. They also know gravity exists on earth in part by the dense elements of iron in the earths core.


There may be realtionships between two species but that does NOT link the two in any way as though one came from the other, a similarity exists between Dinosaurs and reptiles/birds...dinosaurs in effect are unique although they had a physical appearence and structure like that of reptiles but their bone structure and composition was exactly like that of birds.


I know what your trying to say here. Its a good point. But many dinosaurs are classified as reptiles. Crocodiles are reptiles. They lived during the period of dinosaurs. That about says it all. Crocodiles are miracles of evolution. A perfectly evolved creature that continues to exist. Natural selection has been very kind to them. Sharks and cockroaches are the same way. THrough natural selection, and excellent environmental adaptation, they have evolved in a way that maintains their existence. Yes they have linked Dinosaurs to birds too, your right. Many scientists take this as a sign that dinosaurs/reptiles and birds orginally evolved from the same source. Who knows, perhaps with more research they will find out.

Also the facts on mutations have NEVER concluded that species mutate AT ALL. With regards to Australopithecaus and the other ( I will post more on this as I get home) These are assumed recontructions.

Your wrong on this. Gregor Medel in his groundbreaking research on heredity and genetic mutation with pea plants proved that mutations can and do occur, and that they can lead to a change in the structure of DNA. They have even done genetic mutation experiments with fruit flys. Reason is because fruit flys have a very short life span, and researchers can monitor genetic changes faster because the generations happen so quickly. Scientists know a lot more than you think.

The theory of evolution is just that a "Theory" with a lot of holes, and as Scientists try to fill one hole they open up a dozen more. Not to mention the Scientific Fraud that has in the past taken place to try and "Cement" this theory as Fact, you dont believe this. Look at the experiments ( I will mention to you some later on).

Sorry, I dont know what you mean by this...

Evolutionists try to explain a very simple case of being, into one that denies the existence of a creator, you only have to take as look at TWO very simpe examples. MALE and FEMALE...why the two??? this is totally absurd and contradictory to the theory of evolution..so why is it that we have both a Male and a Female?? Evolutionists will tell you that they are looking into it, the fact remains is that THEY dont know how it fits in with this theory.

Very interesting question. Once again, scientist have attempted to solve this question, and they may not know exactly why yet. Richard Dawkins and Stephen Jay Gould, who are prominent biologists- arguably the top in their field, have attempted to answer this question. They call it the "primordial soup", -the origins of life of earth. They have come up with a pretty solid theory on exactly how two sexes could have come from one. Im not going to go into it, partly becasue I dont understand it fully, and it would take to long. It is in Dawkins book called "The Selfish Gene".
So its not right to say scientist dont know these answers. They are coming up with these answers as we speak. It takes time to figure out these questions. Dont expect science to answer everything right away. Just because it hasnt answered every question doesnt mean that science in itself is fallable.
One last thing. You mentioned again that evolution is still a theory with loopholes, and that gravity is just a theory that they cant explain. Let me tell you. Everything in science is a theory. There is no such thing as scientific "fact" just as was said in my previous post. Some theories are just more accepted to be true, such as the obvious ones, ie. gravity, evolution, earth rotation, 2+2 equals 4 etc. Scientists indirectly accept these indisputible theories as "facts".


[Edited by Visionray on 07-17-2001 at 01:11 AM]

If one shall seek truth - someday one shall believe in
Higher Powers -> God

Faith comes from the hearing, hearing comes from the word of God (Bible)

You can't say that God doesn't exist until you experience
His "unexistence". how you do that? I don't know!
But I can tell you that you can experience Him
(I have) God has a biggier picture than you can see.



Read the lyrics of this song:

"I'll Carry You"
Sometimes I wonder if my beating heart has a reason
The silent breathing only takes my breath away
I spend so many nights wrestling with this feeling
Do I ever strength to make it through the day

But I was never met
To walk this road alone
And I can always trust you
When you say:

-“And I,
Will carry you,
And be your strength
And pull you through.

Reach for me,
Take my hand.
We will pray
And we will stand

In the world
Crying out for peace
Let your heart restore
For an I am weak
You will carry me

Sometimes you wonder if the road you on has a reason
It’s hard to go on when you just don’t know
We can show that one the live between us
Until the fear what we can’t see is gone

Because we’ve never met
To walk this road alone
-----------------------

Quote:

---

Originally posted by DNA of FLASH
If one shall seek truth - someday one shall believe in
Higher Powers -> God

Faith comes from the hearing, hearing comes from the word of God (Bible)

You can't say that God doesn't exist until you experience
His "unexistence". how you do that? I don't know!
But I can tell you that you can experience Him
(I have) God has a biggier picture than you can see.



Read the lyrics of this song:

"I'll Carry You"
Sometimes I wonder if my beating heart has a reason
The silent breathing only takes my breath away
I spend so many nights wrestling with this feeling
Do I ever strength to make it through the day

But I was never met
To walk this road alone
And I can always trust you
When you say:

-“And I,
Will carry you,
And be your strength
And pull you through.

Reach for me,
Take my hand.
We will pray
And we will stand

In the world
Crying out for peace
Let your heart restore
For an I am weak
You will carry me

Sometimes you wonder if the road you on has a reason
It’s hard to go on when you just don’t know
We can show that one the live between us
Until the fear what we can’t see is gone

Because we’ve never met
To walk this road alone
-----------------------

---

Ok I am convinced now. What was I thinking? :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Visionray

A "theory" in science is something that has been tested over and over and over again!!!!!!! There is a "theory" that the earth revolves around the sun, there is a "theory" that the earth is round"
Nothing becomes a "theory" in science untill is has been proven over and over again!!! So by saying that evolution is based on theory, your only giving credit to evolution as having taken place!! This is science my friend. And I know I am right. Ask any scientist what a "theory" is and you'll get the same answer.

---

I just asked a scientist what a theory is, he said it is something thta has never been proven.
You are thinking of a law my friend, like the law of gravity, proven over and over.

Now don't you feel stupid :)

the·o·ry (th-r, thîr)
n. pl. the·o·ries

1.A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

2.The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis.


Current "theories" of gravity are based on the geometric curvature of space.
There are geometric gravity theories and quantum field theories. They are theories......
The "law" of gravity is merely a mathematical description of the consistency observed in the way bodies attract, based on many scientific experiments and observations. (ie, the definition of theory). There are no facts in science, only theories tested over and over again that havent been proven otherwise. Ive said this before. :D