[Resolved] FLASH 6 Player - SLOWER ANIMATION (part 2)

Sorry guys, I am a seasoned vet here and you can spout all the inane garbage you want to, but a browser is not going to tell me what I can and can not do, what I can and can not sell, and what I can and can not design.

I can sell whatever I need to because the fact is that no matter what browser is out there, I can ALWAYS work around any issues it has.

I guess that is the difference between "being a success" and just "being".

The one fact that remains true is there is something called TARGET MARKETING. It's something a FORMALLY trained designer and advertising specialist learns. Yes I understand that most designers out there do not have the FULL training. And sorry to say that you are missing out.

Of course KiDdie sites are going to be bombarded by IE users, that's because they have PCs at home, their parents do not know any better than to buy a cheap-old PC. Plus, most can't afford a good 'ol Macntosh to boot.

THAT'S called TARGET MARKETING. If you designed it for KiDdIeS, and you are successful with it, well, then great for you! I'm happy. You did well, A big pat on the back for you.

But in the process, remember, that only ONE browser sticks fully with industry standards, and that is still NS. They SET the standards. Now, go surf some info sites and do your homework and this you will realize.

Plus, I am not designing your little $1000 - 3000 sites, I am doing things that costs clients $30,000+. So I (and a few others on this board) work on a different level than a lot of people do. I'm lucky that there are still those clients out there that will invest so much money into their work. But because MY results are awesome, they gladly pay it, and I do not argue about browsers with them, I just make their stuff work in every browser. End of story.

Sorry, facts are facts any way you cut them people.

And the last fact I am going to state is that this post was about little issue of Flash fps in IE, NOT NS, yes, in your wonderful app called IE. hehe. At least NS works correctly.

And it's my preference anyhow. Just as yours is yours. Enjoy life, it's much better that way.

And with that being said, I am done in this topic, over and out, argue amongst yourselves about what work you cannot do based upoin a browsers limitations.

haha

Wow, Brian, you're an arrogant snob.

Sorry to be so blunt, but just the fact that you think everyone who comes to this web site is beneath you is alarming.

There are many many professionals here, who have different opinions.

Just because people who don't agree with your opinion, about a web browser with 6% of the market (http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2002...ry/browser.php) in a world where the majority rules, shouldn't cause you to go spastic.

Get over it, and as ANY good web developer knows, making something as compatible as possible is always the best solution for everyone.

Now stop being elitist, and get back to work.

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Originally posted by next2heaven
NS is going dowm baby!!!

Checking the latest stats to a youth webpage that I've done, out of 534 people that have come to my site, only 23...count it! 23 people are using Netscape. 4% use the ol' Netscape. Sounds like a Macintosh story to me. :)

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when you have a larger audience the numbers would probably make a bigger impact. my site had 319485 hits (those are hits not visits). 263259 were ie browsers while 49541 were ns. 50000 is a pretty good percentage (15%) of the people. but of those 50000, only 9 percent are using netscape 5.x or 6.x which have the "enhancements." because of that i've given up on netscape and i put together a page in ten seconds for netscapers when they come to my site.

going back to what i said eariler though, isn't the player still in beta? i'm pretty sure macromedia is still working on things to make it out perform 5 and be consistant on each browser. why dosen't someone email macromedia directly or do that little report thing they have on the website.

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Originally posted by gSOLO_01
why dosen't someone email macromedia directly or do that little report thing they have on the website.

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the bug report that is...

here you go... http://www.macromedia.com/bin/fp6betafeedback.cgi

hmm..interesting that Microsoft has enough market share to benchmark standards at will.


interesting sidenote: http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?...52&mode=thread

Sorry azzyt, try going back and reading ALL the posts. not just one or 2.

If you can read, that is, you wil see that I was not the one spouting how NS is dead, and that I should get with the times here. Did you pay attention to those posts? Now lets talk about who is being arrogant, elitist and placing themselves above everyone else.

If you were a professional, you would not be so one-sided and immature to spout how one browser is "dead" and bla bla bla...

I NEVER said I was above anyone, NEVER, I simply stated a fact. And that fact is that I get paid big money to turn out QUALITY work for BIG clientele. And I am not going to think something can not be accomplished because of a little browser issue. And I am not going to get dragged down in your little immature game, a little spiral of idiocy you seem to be caught in. I'm sorry that you cannot accept that.

How about this, learn to read for content. Seems as though people have an issue with this here. Seems to be a trend these days where people open their mouths before speaking.

One more thing I HAVE to point out. Look at jgordon, he disputed something I said, Then he went back and checked it on OPERA, then he came back and said that OPREA was all screwy too, and basically took back what he said, THIS is how the board should be, when people post they should actually MAKE SURE they know what they are talking about. Try it once, you might like it.

Refer to the quotes:
-- You cant sell an NS optimized website... well.. maybe 7 years ago you could...
wake up man its 2002!
--Checking the latest stats to a youth webpage that I've done, out of 534 people that have come to my site, only 23...count it! 23 people are using Netscape. 4% use the ol' Netscape. Sounds like a Macintosh story to me.

grow up people, you attacked, so expect an attack back!

Cheers jgordon, you are a truly mature person!! I respect that!

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Originally posted by Peter G
..interesting that Microsoft has enough market share to benchmark standards at will.

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true ture... but i see it as a good thing. who wants 1000 non-compatable browsers/operating systems anyways? i like monopoly, it's always been my favorite board game ;)
[Edited by gSOLO_01 on 03-14-2002 at 01:45 PM]

Hey, let's not gloss over the MS taking over MM theory mentioned earlier. I can see it now, Flash gets slower and slower in IE. Then when we've all had enough MS comes out with MS-Animate "the hip new way to bring animation to your websites". It'll be great. Little animated things all over your site, and they'll have lots of pre-made stuff for people who like lots of flashy colors. Just like GIFs, but not, because it's made by microsoft.

......yes, I'm done........

Good ad to point out PeterG i picked a few good notes out of it for you all to read (which PROVE my original point that MSIE does not follow standards!)

- about Microsoft's server products , according to our insiders. "The licenses cost too much, their hardware requirements are excessive, they take too much labor to maintain, and we have enough security problems of our own without adding Microsoft's,"...

-do away with any Explorer-specific features they have been using in place of W3C standards...

- users who have chosen to use Gecko instead of Explorer have been described as "very positive."

- They said their choices (to drop IE) were made purely on what worked best in tests they had run; that their concern was not corporate politics but to make life easier and smoother -- and downloads faster --...

-with Mozilla rendering engine, Netscape and Mozilla users -- and possibly Opera, Galeon and Konq users as well -- will no longer find themselves staring angrily at "Best viewed with Internet Explorer" or "You cannot access all features of this site unless you use Internet Explorer" tag lines -- except, possibly at MSN, which already requires Explorer and Windows Media Player to listen to music. This may be bad for Microsoft, but more Web sites following industry-wide standards is good for everyone else. Maybe the Web Standards Project will finally get some of the respect and cooperation it has deserved all along...

It's not arrogance or snobbery or elitism, the facts are just the facts, if you really know what you are talking about, MS has not lived up to WTC standards, EVER. They tried to set their own, and in the process screwed everyone else, and now themselves!!
PLUS, The ONLY server boxes people ever had REAL problems with are NT boxes, the only products people have ever had SERIOUS security issues with are MS products, and the Winblows OS and applications install all kinds of back doors in your system too! Give up all your personal info, it's your choice!

other related good reading, for those who do their homework before opening their mouths...
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/busine...inuxop01.shtml

http://www.dtheatre.com/read.php?sid=869

http://www.aaxnet.com/news/M010514.html

http://www.symantec.com/securitycheck/adultsafety.html

Brian Scott, I and probaly alot of others on here would love to see your web pages, and what part of the pages you did. Please list a few for us to look at, most of us never get a chance to work on a 30,000 + site.

jgordon have you tried throwing a post up on the MM Flash Forum http://webforums.macromedia.com/flash/

i know the MM support engineers cruise and respond to posts on that board...maybe you could an answer, or at least MM is investigating the problem

mr scott seems old and bitter...glad he's not my daddy! :P
he seems to hate anything less than 30 yrs old.

also, brianscott, if you are so much better and so busy with huge corporate sites how do you have the time to write novels in here? and why do you even bother? being prissy is not a good thing for a man, you know. sometimes being humble serves a person well. you are a big old bag of hot air as far as i can tell.

lol@netscape...blah

show us those big bad sites you do, boy! :D

Just wondering (it's been awhile since I have checked) is the new version of netscape more ECMA compliant than the old? It always confused me that the IE browser was closer to being ECMA compliant (read: nowhere near being 100% compliant in the case of iether browaser)when netscape invented javaScript from wich the ECMA standard was evolved.
I don't know the stats on the current NS version but I'm still waiting for NS and MS to get ECMA compliant. Last I heard there were talks between them to come to some such point.

THIS IS NOT A POST RELATED TO FLAMING ANY BROWSER OR DESIGNER OR OPINION. I am just trying to find facts to help in my developement.

Thanks,
James

HAHA Superbfh, that was almost funny, how do I have the time to write posts? well, as of right now this year, I could stop working the rest of the year. I've already done more work than you can imagine.

Big old bag of hot air? Well, if that were even the case, I'd rather be a big old bag of hot air then be a young dumb and uneducated cretin, and you lack of ability to correspond in a mature nature is not going to upset me, I just sit here and laugh at people like yourself.

You should learn how to read for content yourself. Go back and look who broke in with the flaming about browsers. This topic got way off subject because a few people thought it necessary to knock other peoples opinions in snotty and arrogant ways.

Now, I will leave you about an hour or two to dig through your dictionary so you might try to understand half of what is going on here! HAHA!!

(at least there are some on here who have responded to me privately who understand that the others who have began flaming here are just bitter, poor and idiotic)

That shows there SOME hope for the world!! hehe

Oh, and Superbfh, if you are going to try to rip on someone, at least have the self respect to do it correctly. and as far as you can t ell, you OBVIOUSLY do not know your own butt from a hole in the wall!! haha

And are you being "humble" by posting in here? think about that, oh wait, you do not have the cranial capacity to do that! hehe

think about it stumpy, if someone tries to flame me, I DO have the right to flame back. Oh wait, that requires thinking, which you can not do, I keep forgetting!! hehe
[Edited by BrianScott on 03-14-2002 at 01:57 PM]

People have strange hobbies :)

Some collect stamps or build houses from matches, some like to collect old software. Its not something person should feel shamed of, its very nice, there should be different kinds of browsers around. I like Opera and been using it for quite some time, still I am not going to tell everyone, that Opera is industry standard.

I know, how hard it is to let go old toys, they are sweet and you are used to them, but some day you will understand, that time has come to put them away :)

old toys?? NS6 for OSX was just released 2 weeks ago. Ummmm, is 2 weeks considered old to you? which browser do you use that is updated every day?

this I would like to know. hehe

Hello BrianScott, I am a young flash designer, and I would like to see the websites you have done, so I'll have a better idea of the quality of $30k websites. Could you please post your sites here? Thanks.

And yes, about the flash 6 player slowdown.. i've noticed a lower framerate in my flash5 animations. I do everything frame by frame, and I remember what every frame looks like.. but I occasionally see frames skipped with the flash 6 player. Seems like it goes a few fps slower :-/.. I guess I might have to start making my movies in a higher fps, or hope that Macromedia fixes this problem!

hey pbleper, the issue with Flash missing some frames, this is what it is. Flash, it will skip frames if it can not render your animation as fast as it needs to. If there is sound in the animation, and the frames can not render, frqames will appear to be missing or sometimes it might look like the animation will hang for a minute second.

This is what a guy from Macromedia told me, plus... this information is on MANY message boards if you want to look it up. I can send ya some links when I get time, have to run out the door soon.

Send me an email through the flashkit site.

actually i think i am pretty smart for my age (13). thanks for calling me stupid. i hope i don't grow up to be as mean to young people as you are.

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Originally posted by BrianScott
Sorry azzyt, try going back and reading ALL the posts. not just one or 2.

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Been there, done that, maybe you should read my post? I think you missed it.

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If you can read, that is, you wil see that I was not the one spouting how NS is dead, and that I should get with the times here. Did you pay attention to those posts? Now lets talk about who is being arrogant, elitist and placing themselves above everyone else.

If you were a professional, you would not be so one-sided and immature to spout how one browser is "dead" and bla bla bla...

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OK, I'm confused. I never accused you of saying annything about Netscape being dead. All I mentioned is that you sure care a lot about a browser that has 6% (I'm being generous) of the market.

I gave statistics to back that up, so it wouldn't be just a flame.

Now, there is a place for that. That's 6 out of every 100 users, and I beleive they should be catered to, and I never said otherwsie.

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I NEVER said I was above anyone, NEVER, I simply stated a fact.

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No, you didn't. You just act like it by insulting everyone you speak with. Good going there, Brian! Keep up the good work.

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And that fact is that I get paid big money to turn out QUALITY work for BIG clientele. And I am not going to think something can not be accomplished because of a little browser issue. And I am not going to get dragged down in your little immature game, a little spiral of idiocy you seem to be caught in. I'm sorry that you cannot accept that.

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Thankfully I can accept that, so this is my last post on this issue, no matter how much more you care to insult me.

As for the browser comment, there are things you can not do in any browser other than Internet Explorer. Although they are rarely useful, because they are not compliant. So don't use them, who's forcing you? This topic was just about the Flash player being slower on certain configurations, and it is. How did this become an issue of your skills as a web developer?

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How about this, learn to read for content. Seems as though people have an issue with this here. Seems to be a trend these days where people open their mouths before speaking.

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I've read a bit too much of your content, and frankly it's making me nauseas.

You read the comment, stick to the subject, and maybe think before you insult somebody.

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One more thing I HAVE to point out. Look at jgordon, he disputed something I said, Then he went back and checked it on OPERA, then he came back and said that OPREA was all screwy too, and basically took back what he said, THIS is how the board should be, when people post they should actually MAKE SURE they know what they are talking about. Try it once, you might like it.

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OK, that's great. That's what support is all about. Somebody found a bug, found preliminary information, then refined that information. Wonderful, maybe that will make it easier for Macromedia to understand what's going on. Now, how you come into play I have no idea. Did you tell him that Opera uses the Netscape plugin model? No, tonypa mentioned that. You just suggested it was a PC problem, which it's clearly not, and if you did any testing at all before you commented you would have realized that. Have you even downloaded the Flash file to test? Do you even have the Flash 6 player? How are you being helpful?

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Refer to the quotes:
-- You cant sell an NS optimized website... well.. maybe 7 years ago you could...
wake up man its 2002!
--Checking the latest stats to a youth webpage that I've done, out of 534 people that have come to my site, only 23...count it! 23 people are using Netscape. 4% use the ol' Netscape. Sounds like a Macintosh story to me.

grow up people, you attacked, so expect an attack back!

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Mature people don't attack. We discuss in an adult manner.

Oh, and Netscape 6 does rock. Too bad nobody uses it. And IE6 does support standards, it just throws in proprietary stuff also. Opera supports standards also. And you do know that the W3C creates the standards, not Netscape -- Ri-i-ight?


It's been excellent discussing this issue with you Brian, and I wish you continued good luck in your business.

Oh, and I forgot one thing. It's the cardinal rule of internet communication -- Never fuel a flamer. Ack! :)
[Edited by azzyt on 03-14-2002 at 02:59 PM]