Well, I suppose we need to decide on a project and go from there. I'm real easy to get along with, so you guys come up with something and we can go from there.
-Jason
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Well, I suppose we need to decide on a project and go from there. I'm real easy to get along with, so you guys come up with something and we can go from there.
-Jason
I'm all for a project :D
I'd like to propose a simple enough game like PacMan. It's not too complicated, requires javascript, animation, and keyboard input.
One thing I was thinking about and that is how do we manage the code/movies. I'm thinking that a single source/repository would be ideal but not essential. This would help to keep track of the changes.
Another idea would be to break the project up into components and have a volunteer to work on one aspect of it. When the job is done it can be added to the final product and reviewed by the other participents of the project.
Which ever way we go - IT WILL BE A LOT OF FUN AND LEARNING FOR ALL :D
One thing I don't want it to become is a committee. :(
I'd like to hear what others have to say too. C'mon folks! This is your FORUM too!
Cheers,
Ed
Quote:
Originally posted by kusco
I'm all for a project :D
I'd like to propose a simple enough game like PacMan. It's not too complicated, requires javascript, animation, and keyboard input.
One thing I was thinking about and that is how do we manage the code/movies. I'm thinking that a single source/repository would be ideal but not essential. This would help to keep track of the changes.
Another idea would be to break the project up into components and have a volunteer to work on one aspect of it. When the job is done it can be added to the final product and reviewed by the other participents of the project.
Pac Man eh? That could lead to some interesting problems!! I'm in...
I propose these specs.
480x360 size
We create a "container" movie that will house the start-up and instructions. This container can then load via LOADMOVIE the game itself. This allows viewing of instructions and into while game loads.
We come up with a map template that allows making different levels.
we design no more than two levels to start. Keep focus on game play.
We can post at deadyeti, Ed I'll set you for access
Hmmm,
My first question related to this project will be...
...What is a 'container' movie? Is this the same as a normal movie that is loaded using the Load Movie?
Posting at deadyeti sounds excellent.
All we need to do now is break the project up into components ie. artwork, level building, help/instructions, sound, programming and animation. Have I left anything out?
I'm itching to get started. :D
The more volunteers we have the more ideas we'll be able to share.
Cheers,
Ed
http://www.deadyeti.com/into3dfa/movie_899.html
I've broken it up into seperate images, once it turn's there's a new image(should help with collision detection). The first layer is copied and pasted then mirrored to form the remaining map area. All of the images in following layers are renamed to reflect the layer they are in(i.e. layer_2=image_2).
-Jason
[Edited by zoranvedek on 05-22-2002 at 01:13 AM]
...........added a pac/insane man, keyboard controls aren't always updating but you'll get the idea:
http://www.deadyeti.com/into3dfa/insaneman.html
Let me know if&what I need to change.
-Jason
Jason,
This is a very good start! :) You've been very busy I see. The animated insaneman is fantastic!
I have a couple of suggestions.
[list=1][*] The little guy may need to be a bit big bigger.[*] Possibly have fewer twists and turns in the maze. ie. if we make it bigger then we won't need as many (eventually) dots to eat and makes the game easier.[*] (ok, more than a couple) to make things a lot easier for programming think of the playfield as made up of squares or characters or a grid. eg. the insaneman will fill up one square, a dot - one square, ghost and maze walls a square each too.
This gives us defined barriers and also allows us to not have to worry about checking too intensely about changing direction and without running into a wall.
Also, when we move insaneman in a direction we animate it so that it animates precisely into the next square. This allows us to very easily define an animation sequence because we'll know the size of each square and therefore how many frames we need.[*] Using the grid method also means we can use an array in javascript which would be used to keep track of insaneman, the ghosts, the dots, maze and cherries etc. With this method we can then program it so that the maze can change randomly just by using predefined maze tiles/shapes and provide a better method for collision detection.[*] For the maze, using tiles/shapes means only having to have a small number of predefined shapes. Then from this we can clone, rotate and position them on the playfield to create unlimited possibilities.[/list=1]
Is it obvious that I'm getting too excited :D
Deep breath, calming sounds....good.
Just some ideas for us to think about. What are your thoughts?
I'm happy also to not worry too much about Javascripting it as I could be over complicating things.
Cheers,
Ed
This is how I was picturing it as well. We'd need to decide on a tile size.Quote:
Using the grid method also means we can use an array in javascript which would be used to keep track of insaneman, the ghosts, the dots, maze and cherries etc. With this method we can then program it so that the maze can change randomly just by using predefined maze tiles/shapes and provide a better method for collision detection.
For the maze, using tiles/shapes means only having to have a small number of predefined shapes. Then from this we can clone, rotate and position them on the playfield to create unlimited possibilities.
We probably won't be able to use true collision detection for the maze itself as you don't want thme to actually touch ever, I'm inclined to think of the play area as an Array, this way you can do a look ahead to see what is in the direction you want to go and just not move if there is wall. Not sure how well we can update screen, perhaps the moving elements are actually "on top" of the displayed array of a maze. Might have to experiment a little to see what works.
Ok, if I am following you correctly, then I am making this far more difficult than I need to. I am currently using a 5x5 grid with the insaneman being 3 squares(15x15) the walls 1 square(5x5) and the open spaces 4(20x20), if you are planning on cloning the maze then, if I am correct, all you will need are 2 grid block's containing graphics for all the wall's(one open at both end's , and one capped???), by all means correct me if I am wrong. I started a small maze for my boys once(using action script)and it was serious pain in the(well you get the idea), I ended up with a ton of code to check the walls height/width/position a well as for the ball that moved throuh the maze(I finally gave up in frustration). What you are describing sounds ALOT simpler.Quote:
Originally posted by kusco
Jason,
This is a very good start! :) You've been very busy I see. The animated insaneman is fantastic!
I have a couple of suggestions.
[list=1][*] The little guy may need to be a bit big bigger.[*] Possibly have fewer twists and turns in the maze. ie. if we make it bigger then we won't need as many (eventually) dots to eat and makes the game easier.[*] (ok, more than a couple) to make things a lot easier for programming think of the playfield as made up of squares or characters or a grid. eg. the insaneman will fill up one square, a dot - one square, ghost and maze walls a square each too.
This gives us defined barriers and also allows us to not have to worry about checking too intensely about changing direction and without running into a wall.
Also, when we move insaneman in a direction we animate it so that it animates precisely into the next square. This allows us to very easily define an animation sequence because we'll know the size of each square and therefore how many frames we need.[*] Using the grid method also means we can use an array in javascript which would be used to keep track of insaneman, the ghosts, the dots, maze and cherries etc. With this method we can then program it so that the maze can change randomly just by using predefined maze tiles/shapes and provide a better method for collision detection.[*] For the maze, using tiles/shapes means only having to have a small number of predefined shapes. Then from this we can clone, rotate and position them on the playfield to create unlimited possibilities.[/list=1]
Is it obvious that I'm getting too excited :D
Deep breath, calming sounds....good.
Just some ideas for us to think about. What are your thoughts?
I'm happy also to not worry too much about Javascripting it as I could be over complicating things.
Cheers,
Ed
As for the little guy being bigger, I already had that thought, he was, to say the least, a little hard to animate being that small. Another thought I had was basing him off the insanetools logo/mascot (maybe turning into insaneman after eating a power pill :) ).
Let me know a grid size and any other specifications, and I'll get to making changes this afternoon.
-Jason
Bret,
Can we set up a folder specifically for this project? If you've already done so, then just point me in that direction.
-Jason
Ed has access now as well, I haven't made a folder yet but we certainly can. You go ahead and do it.Quote:
Originally posted by zoranvedek
Bret,
Can we set up a folder specifically for this project? If you've already done so, then just point me in that direction.
-Jason
I've been thinking about this problem and it turns out to be no problem at all. Using rotation and scale we can very easily set a direction. We can put insaneman into motion using acceleration and in conjunction with some javascript we can tell exactly where he is at anytime. eg. if we move him left a square then we can quickly calculate where he should end up, set him in motion and use javascript to stop him when he reaches the desired location.Quote:
Not sure how well we can update screen, perhaps the moving elements are actually "on top" of the displayed array of a maze. Might have to experiment a little to see what works.
Since we'll be dealing with cloned objects we only need to remember to clone the characters (ghosts and our hero) last. This way they'll always appear to be on top of the dots, cherries etc. Also, as we're dealing with a grid/array (same difference :) ) none of the characters need ever come in contact with a maze wall.
I haven't lost anyone yet have I? Stop me if I have.
A tile size of 16x16 works very well. Most of the original games consoles like Nintendo used this system. In fact Gameboy use this same method today. :)Quote:
We'd need to decide on a tile size.
A 16x16 tile used in a 480x360 screen will give us a total of 30x22 tiles to use. This is more than enough for InsaneMan. It also alows us to create a fairly detailed animated character/s and maze tiles.
[QUOTE]if you are planning on cloning the maze then, if I am correct, all you will need are 2 grid block's containing graphics for all the wall's(one open at both end's , and one capped???), by all means correct me if I am wrong./QUOTE]
Quite correct but we'll also need a corner piece.
I should think no more than about 8 animated frames per second for each character too. The frames would be loaded into an array. Using this we can synchronise the movements of all the characters with a single javascript routine running at only 8 times per second :) and ALL of the characters would be animated at the same time. Nice and simple.Quote:
As for the little guy being bigger, I already had that thought, he was, to say the least, a little hard to animate being that small. Another thought I had was basing him off the insanetools logo/mascot (maybe turning into insaneman after eating a power pill ).
I really like the idea of turning our hero into Stanly (I think that's the name) when he eats a power pill.
The more I think about this project the easier it's getting and the clearer it becomes. Man, I wish I had 3DFA when I was learning to program then this stuff would have seemed like a breeze!
I'll stop here and let the ink dry before going on.
Cheers,
Ed
...let me know if this is more what you had in mind:
http://www.deadyeti.com/insaneman/squares.html
-Jason
Jason,
These are great!
If we use the 16x16 tile size then we'll need to ensure that the characters (InsaneMan, Ghosts etc.) don't take up the full size otherwise they'll look like they're cramped in against the sides of the walls. I'm thinking that these would utilise a 14x14 tile size but kept inside the 16x16. ie. keep a border around the shapes of 1 pixel width to give us that gap.
Who else is going to participate in this project and what aspect would you like to work on?
I wouldn't mind doing some javascript coding. There's a bit here to do like moving the characters, drawing the dots, setting up the screen, collision detection, power-pill routines, etc. I'm just wondering if it would help everyone if I put together a 'Programming Specification' to outline the requirements (as I see them) and how the different routines would interact. This way the programming can be broken up into managable pieces and allows more than one person to get involved with the programming. What does everyone think?
Cheers,
Ed
I can only answer for myself............Quote:
Originally posted by kusco
Jason,
Who else is going to participate in this project and what aspect would you like to work on?
I assume I'll be doing the graphics mainly, but have absolutely no objections to anyone elses input. As far as JavaScripting goes, I'm way behind everyone else(best if I step aside and try to learn as much as I can without being in the way). I have a good grasp on actionscripting though, as long as it's all straight forward at least.
Like you, I've been waiting for someone else to chime in with some ideas. I've got a good feeling about this, and am getting anxious to see where it will all head to.
Anyway, it's been a long day, gonna drink some coffee unwind and see what I can come up with for our insaneman.
One quick question first though......
Would it be better to use seperate frame animations(delayed at 0.125), or a single choose view containing all of the animations? Whichever everyone thinks is best is fine with me(I'm easy to get along with).
-Jason
I'm kinda of a concept man myself... Know a little about everything.
I woke up this morning thinking of choosers.
I think things like the flashman should be a chooser element with five views Up,Down,Left,Right,Still.
I hope we can get more than just the three of us but if not thats ok with me.
I plan on doing experiments to try some ideas.....
What if the entire board was one cloned array of choosers that had views of Wall,Open,Pill,PowerUp then we set them based on a map array.
[1 1 1 1 1 1 2]
[1 3 2 2 2 2 1]
[1 2 1 1 1 2 1]
[1 2 2 2 2 3 1]
[1 1 1 1 1 1 1]
etc.....
I'm not up to speed with choosers. Can't say I've ever used them.
If they can be accessed from within a javascript routine with access to their properties then cool. We'll need to be able to do this if we're going to use an array.
Bret, I think I understand a little about this concept. So we use Choosers to contain the animations for each character, power pill etc.?? And then we clone them to where we want them on the board? If this is what you mean then it sounds great and would mean less javascripting as well (I fairly certain - I think :) ). Also, each chooser would be the size of a tile???Quote:
What if the entire board was one cloned array of choosers that had views of Wall,Open,Pill,PowerUp then we set them based on a map array.
What areas of the game do you want to work on Bret? I'm trying to avoid doubling up on work efforts where-ever possible.
Cheers,
Ed
I like that idea, and I'm not all familiar with using arrays. It could come in handy on higher levels as well, for different maze patterns.Quote:
Originally posted by blanius
What if the entire board was one cloned array of choosers that had views of Wall,Open,Pill,PowerUp then we set them based on a map array.
[1 1 1 1 1 1 2]
[1 3 2 2 2 2 1]
[1 2 1 1 1 2 1]
[1 2 2 2 2 3 1]
[1 1 1 1 1 1 1]
etc.....
-Jason
rest right left up & down:
http://www.deadyeti.com/insaneman/motion_ani.html
Let me know what you think, 14 pixels is not alot of space to work in :) .
-Jason
Hey Guys!!
This it is a great idea CONGRATULATIONS!!!
They do not forget of my,I'm a bit removed for motives of my work, But my heart is here with 3DFA. I can help with some animations.
Only they say in that them I can help. I've available the nights and the weekends.
Joseph!
Jason,
That looks fine. I know that 14x14 is not a lot to work in so maybe this idea instead - use the 16x16 for the characters and 14x14 for the walls.
If you do this then remember to keep the butts of the walls right up against the edge so that they appear seamless when stack against each other.
Otherwise, this is fine.
Mr. Joseph,
This is a project for everyone, your contributions are most welcome as are anyone-elses. Perhaps yourself and Jason can work together with the animations??
Welcome aboard!!
I'll sit back a bit until some of the animations and wall graphics are ready before starting on some coding.
Does anyone have or know of a good source for sound effects?
Just a thought too, can we have the 'Insert Coin' prompt come up too :) just having some fun.
Cheers,
Ed
If no-one else has any I have a few laying round.Quote:
Originally posted by kusco
Does anyone have or know of a good source for sound effects?
Just a thought too, can we have the 'Insert Coin' prompt come up too :) just having some fun.
Cheers,
Ed
I like the insert coin idea, perhaps even have a drag and drop coin to start the game(or is that going too far???).
-Jason
Yeah, maybe I could make a loading movie. Also thinking (always dangerous for me), could we load the levels from named files (1.txt,2.txt,3.txt) and is there a way to something like eval(something) in a load from file? I have had some experience with creating loading movies, and like them much (I have a 56k modem).
I'd like to help in any way I can.
Let me know what you'll be animating so we're not duplicting efforts. If you want to do a 'power-up' or 'death' sequence for the main character feel free to use what I have as a starting point. There is a still of 'insaneman' in the chooser on the file titled "motion_ani", view=rest.Quote:
Originally posted by MrJoseph
I can help with some animations.
Only they say in that them I can help. I've available the nights and the weekends.
Joseph!
We also need the bad guys (traditionally ghosts, but if you have a more creative idea, then by all means go with it), power pellets, cherries, etc. ........
-Jason
Hi ajcompany,
I think that this is a good idea. I think we may need to consider how this would be done.
My thoughts are we need to develop the screen layouts first. This would mean having a predefined number of layouts that would be used throughout the game. I'm not aware of any methods for being able to use an eval expression which is why I think we need to decide on how many screens we want in the game.
Do we have any takers on designing some screens?
Ok, I'm going out on a limb here so bear with me. I'm about to go into detail about how I think the tiling system should work with arrays.
As Bret has already indicated we use a numbering system to identify which tile is being referenced in an array. The number used will also correspond to the position of the tile in an array of tiles.
Here's what I think is a good start:
[list=1][*] wall corner piece[*] wall end piece[*] wall straight piece[*] wall t-piece[*] our here - insaneman[*] ghost or bad guy #1[*] ghost or bad guy #2 (note this is the look of the ghost/bad guy when our here eats a Power Pill.[*] power pill[*] dot[*] cherrie[*] peach[*] strawberry[*] bananna[*] orange[/list=1]
We can add more to the end of the list as we need to.
Using the numbers corresponding to the tiles above we can then make our grid/tile system and easily reference it with indexes into the arrays.
Hopefully with the above information we'll be able to make a start on the development of playfields (screen layouts).
Is it showing that I've done a wee bit of game development before? ;)
Using the above list I'll put together the javascript code to setup the arrays we need.
Cheers,
Ed
Ed,
Don't forget the power-up and death sequence for insaneman.
I've got some work to catch up on this evening, and after that I'll start working on some more animations.
-Jason
Hi Jason,
Yep, quite correct.
15. Insaneman Power up
16. Insaneman Death
17. Ghost/Bad guy runaway at power up
Thanx,
Ed
alriiiiight!
you guys been busy! its all excellent progress. Where would you like assistance from here? I'll have a think about some methods of collision detection ? or something else? I'll review some of the suggested methods and get back to you.
insaneman. love it.
- Damien
Hi Damien,
See what happens when you leave us for too long! :D
Any assistance, suggestions, ideas, whatever is most welcome.
I'm quite excited about the current development and any future projects that are spawned as well.
Cheers,
Ed
Heres a basic Stanley to work with, I'll probably be making some changes to him, but it's late here, and I need sleep:
http://www.deadyeti.com/insaneman/stanley.html
If anyone has made(or is planning on making)a chooser template with the different positions for everything, please post it, and I will start adding the different animations to it as I go along. That way there only one file to update, as opposed to updating the different elements(within the chooser) one by one.
-Jason
Hi! JasonQuote:
Originally posted by zoranvedek
Heres a basic Stanley to work with, I'll probably be making some changes to him, but it's late here, and I need sleep:
http://www.deadyeti.com/insaneman/stanley.html
If anyone has made(or is planning on making)a chooser template with the different positions for everything, please post it, and I will start adding the different animations to it as I go along. That way there only one file to update, as opposed to updating the different elements(within the chooser) one by one.
-Jason
This is my sketch of insaneman, I've tried to give expression him, I cannot reduce the size, because I lose the expression when exporting.
I like the one that you did! the one that makes is single an exercise. Maybe an idea.
http://www.blender.island.3dup.net/IFA/movie_102.html
Thanks!
Joseph!
Ok, sounds great! I'm not quite sure about the insaneman sort of kar-ic-it-chure (phoneticly cause I don't know how to spell it) but everything else looks good to go!
Loading levels from a/an file(s) (DKerr, you may know) if there is some way to eval(levelon) in a load from file then we can do unlimited levels, or use the eval() function and just load as many levels as we want from 1 file and just have the syntax like:
Level-X-Y = Tile
or
1-1-1=12
Something like that. You could arrange the j-script to be like:
for loadx
for loady
level(loadx,loady) = levelon & "-" & loadx & "-" & loady
next loady
next loadx
of course the fors aren't right and I'm not sure if you can have multidimensional arrays (if you can't dkerr, that may be a feature I suggest) if you can't have multidimentional arrays, what I always use is something like
(loadx * 100) + loady
Hope it helps
oh, to have insaneman and the ghosts move smothly, you don't want them as a tile otherwise you may have some problems moving them smothly.
Hi ajcompany,
I've been giving your suggestion about using text files to load up the different levels. We could try to implement this using javascript in HTML. This would need to load a variable in the movie with the layout of the level which will then need to be converted into an array of sorts. I have a small reservation about using text files in that the game would become dependent on the text files being kept somewhere on a web server rather than have the game as a complete unit (just my thoughts).
About using tiles: This shouldn't posses any problems. What I'm currently developing is the code to handle all of this. It's not too difficult to do and should be ready for everyone's approval in a day or so.
However, I've hit upon a little problem with using either a Chooser or Animation element. Both of these elements properties are not accessible from within javascript which means I can't set the velocity or direction of them. I'm having to revert to using the individual frames of the animations directly.
If anyone has another idea then please let me know. In the meantime I'll continue developing the code to move and animate the characters.
Cheers,
Ed
Hi!Jason
Jason please reviews this bad guy, if there is some thing that is not considering, tell me I'm going to make others, to see as they work.
http://www.blender.island.3dup.net/IFA/movie_103.html
Thanks!
Joseph
Joseph thats great, can you squeeze him down to 16X16 with a 1 pixel border(i.e. 14x14)?
-Jason
interesting, but I think maybe a little smaller, except in title screens (if we have them). I understand the problems with text files, but hard-coded levels just wouldn't be any fun would they? If, as you suggested kusco, we can have it load from html. Gotta go.
Hi group,
I've not forgotten about this project so please don't panick! :)
What I have been doing is taking a very close look at the example movie that young Jason has posted earlier (movie 899 - I think). I'm interested in the use of layers in combination with a chooser element.
This caught my attention after I stated in an earlier post that choosers/animations couldn't be used easily with javascript. I'm not so sure about this now. So, I've been busy 'experimenting' (for lack of a better word) with this method of animation.
I had already done a fair amount of coding to get the animations to work but this method will cut that amount of coding down quite a lot.
Right now I'm making some adjustments to the code to incorporate the use of Layers and I should have something ready to show the group a little later.
My apologies for the delays.
Cheers,
Ed
Hi! JasonQuote:
Originally posted by MrJoseph
Hi!Jason
Jason please reviews this bad guy, if there is some thing that is not considering, tell me I'm going to make others, to see as they work.
http://www.blender.island.3dup.net/IFA/movie_103.html
Thanks!
Joseph
I've not been able to reduce the frame to 16x16 and to maintain the resolution of character.
Which is the reason to limit frame 16x16. Why not to handle a size of 50x50 like minimum and 100x100 as maximun by example.
Please I need its direction in order to see how I can solve.
Thanks!
Joseph
Hi MrJoseph,
We're keeping the size of the characters down to 16x16 as this is the size of the tiles we'll be using in the game.
A tile will hold a single graphic like the ghost, powerpill, wall, cherry etc.
If the tile is 50x50 then we have to increase the size of the movie to cater.
Think of it as a 'creative challenge' :)
Cheers,
Ed