Flash MX 2004 Released - TRIAL DOWNLOAD NOW AVAILABLE

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Originally posted by tonypa
MM has Central coming, why would they care about FK?

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hehe, this illustrates the problem to a degree, central isn't a community thing, it's a portal for flash apps/web services, if anything they should be fostering relations with communities so that more small developers understand the market potential and create product for central. If I was in MM marketing I'd be on the phone to to the FK webmaster explaining to him why FK needs a central dedicated forum to get people into this whoel idea, blah blah blah. As far as I know there has been no representation to FK at all. About anything. Ever...

oh well, when central fails to turn up enough product to sustain it they'll probably blame small developers for not getting on board...

bleh

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Originally posted by tonypa
MM has Central coming, why would they care about FK?

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Even without Central; Macromedia hasn't been here for ages.

I just got a mail about some new info ('new' obviously depends on your level of MM penetration) available about MX2004.

It included the following line:

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MX 2004 is indeed a pradigm shift for Flash. From being this nice little tool you'd use for animation, Flash has grown into a robust platform with many purposes.

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Now, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade (sure, right) but wasn't the original MX supposed to be this 'robust platform with many purposes'? If the guys who live by Flash can't come up with any new descriptives, what chances are there that MM will come up with anything decisively 'must have' in MX2004.

Could it be that MM is bumping out another version to simply bolster figures in the profit column, or is that just too easy a conclusion for a cynic to jump to?

Your thoughts are most appreciated.

merged your thread here, people have been discussing this amongst other things.

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Originally posted by aversion
central isn't a community thing, it's a portal for flash apps/web services, if anything they should be fostering relations with communities so that more small developers understand the market potential and create product for central.

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Its already a community thing, 4500 beta developers are creating applications for it. They do communicate, they do share their ideas and information, they are the new community.

From MM point of view there is no place for things like FK: you read your news from MM blogs, you buy your products from MM Contribute, you create something and distribute your creation with MM Central. FK? Whats that? they wonder.

Couple of items:

1. You don't have to use ActionScript 2.0 in Flash 2004. You can continue to use ActionScript 1.0.

2. ActionScript 2.0 is based on the latest ECMA specs / standards. It is not based directly on Java.

3. The EULA will allow you to install Flash 2004 on two machines for non-concurrent use. Previously, the license only allowed you to install it on one machine.

4. We are extremely active in the community, and constantly solicit feedback.

However, due to the size of the Flash community, we are not able to participate everywhere as much as we would like. This includes sites like FlashKit, were-here, but also mailing lists (such as FlashCoders) and our own forums.

There is nothing more in the world that I would like than to be able to read every thread / post made in the Flash community. However, it is simply not possible. By last count, there were approximately 15,000 posts a day made in the Flash community.

Finally, I suggest holding judgment on 2004 until you get a chance to check it out. A lot of the posts I have seen on this thread have had incorrect information.

Flash 2004 will have a 30 day trial, so you will be able to check it out then. Also, we will have a ton of technical information and documentation as soon as 2004 is released.

There is already a lot of information available from various Flash sites. For some examples see:

http://www.markme.com/mxna/search.cfm?searchTerm=2004

mike chambers

mesh@macromedia.com

Great, Mike Chambers posts once in 9 months and it has to be straight after I say they dont care about FK :D

Just my luck :)

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Originally posted by tonypa
Great, Mike Chambers posts once in 9 months and it has to be straight after I say they dont care about FK :D

Just my luck :)

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They call it "foot-in-mouth" disease :D


david p.

phew, that was one helluva long post to read. And I got a couple of comments from a Designers point of view which was briefly touched by mikepol

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also: the fact that MM ... AND the fact that it doesn't cater much for designers both pee me off -

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In many, MANY small companies Flash equals a Designers tool, that is they expect the Designer to be able to do all Flash related work including XML intergration with content management systems, actionscript etc.

In fact here where I work I am the only one who can do this kind of work. Now I am not saying I mind doing actionscript but it is a tool and not really what I like doing, but something I want to be able to do to achieve what I want to do.

But when I felt I had Flash 5 actionscript under control and could concentrate fully on design, MX came out, and now when I feel I have MX actionscript under control and can concentrate fully on design, MX2 comes out.

Why should I start learning all this new AS2 which is really just a tool for me and not what I really burn for?

Don't get me wrong I am looking forward to be able to use CSS dynamically, but I don't want to once again put design on the shelves to keep up with Macromedias newest thing.

I get the feeling Macromedia sees Designers as second rate people eventhough we brought Flash to where it is (yes we did!). I don't want to be as Macromedia and put Design second to Actionscripting, but that is the commitment they require each time they release a new version of Flash.

That leaves me (and a lot of other designers) with a problem: Eventhough bigger companies and MM themselves see Flash as a 2/3 Developer's tool, many smaller companies still see Flash as a Designers tool so they expect us to be able to do all the Flash stuff which really is a Developers job... maybe it is just because as long as they see it as a Designers job they don't have to pay a Developers salery, I don't know, but I don't think that is the case.

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who's gonna buy the standard version anyway?

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I'll probably buy one for home since I don't need all the data stuff which seems to be the only addition you get in the Professional version

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Originally posted by robhome
But when I felt I had Flash 5 actionscript under control and could concentrate fully on design, MX came out, and now when I feel I have MX actionscript under control and can concentrate fully on design, MX2 comes out.

Why should I start learning all this new AS2 which is really just a tool for me and not what I really burn for?

Don't get me wrong I am looking forward to be able to use CSS dynamically, but I don't want to once again put design on the shelves to keep up with Macromedias newest thing.

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Every 18 months or so, stuff has been changing (evolving)...

Are you designing for the web or for standalone? Is it imperative to your work that you use the latest features; or can you do without them (web users wont even have the latest plugin)...

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE/LEARN AS2

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Originally posted by robhome
I get the feeling Macromedia sees Designers as second rate people eventhough we brought Flash to where it is (yes we did!).

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Now the focus is on application development. What design features should be incorporated into Flash, without it becoming illustrator-freehand-fireworks-photoshop-xxx

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Originally posted by robhome
I'll probably buy one for home since I don't need all the data stuff which seems to be the only addition you get in the Professional version

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Take a look again... but still; the additional features included in pro may not be what you need. If you're buying one profesional version you can install it on two machines (same os); same for standard.

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YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE/LEARN AS2

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Ah, But that was my point, I DO have to learned and so do loads of us because Flash is still widely seen as a Designers tool so Designers worldwide is expected to be able to do everthing in Flash while Developers do the backend stuff

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web users wont even have the latest plugin

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That is not a valid argument because they will in time.

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Now the focus is on application development. What design features should be incorporated into Flash, without it becoming illustrator-freehand-fireworks-photoshop-xxx

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As I said I am looking forward to the CSS. My point is that macromedia seems to be running further and further ahead of most of the industry, changing things too fast. A few of us loves to learn new stuff, but we are finding it harder and hard to keep up, The rest is fell behind when MX was launched.

Yes in a perfect world there would ba a Flash Designer and a Flash Developer and in time I am sure that is how it will be, but for most of us that is not how it is now.

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Take a look again... but still; the additional features included in pro may not be what you need

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yes there are probably loads of other features in professional, but question is are they all geared towards Developers? - If so this might be a good time to draw the line and say I am a Designer.

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Originally posted by robhome
Ah, But that was my point, I DO have to learned and so do loads of us because Flash is still widely seen as a Designers tool so Designers worldwide is expected to be able to do everthing in Flash while Developers do the backend stuff

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I guess you're not clear as to what AS2 is. But you do not have to use it.

I'm not sure what industry you arr in or your audience; so I really cant comment on the flash player penetration in that sense.

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I guess you're not clear as to what AS2 is. But you do not have to use it.

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As I understand it AS2 are additional actionscript which in turn means you can do new stuff or old stuff easier, isn't that correct?

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I'm not sure what industry your in or your audience; so I really cant comment on the flash player penetration in that sense.

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Web Design for all sorts of clients, so Flash penetration varies from target-group to target-group but eventually it will get out to the masses, again the kind of work most of us do

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Originally posted by robhome
My point is that macromedia seems to be running further and further ahead of most of the industry, changing things too fast.

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From what I can tell; they are trying to catch up to things like css, xml and other standards and stuff. While on the other hand they are trying to be innovative as fas as application development / cross platform development is concerned. It isn't all bad; running ahead of the industry, creating standards and such.

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From what I can tell; they are trying to catch up to things like css, xml and other standards and stuff.

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CSS and XML are good things to catch up with I totally agree.

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It isn't all bad; running ahead of the industry, creating standards and such.

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Unless you run too far ahead so people give up trying to keep track.

I read this quote on http://www.newstoday.com/ today which I think really covers it:

The secret is to lead, not to follow, but never to lead to far.

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macromedia seems to be running further and further ahead of most of the industry, changing things too fast.

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right on!
Caching up with standards should therefore be taken care of using plugins of some kind, not a whole new version that costs big bucks!. stadards are gonna keep developing and we'll have to put up with MM's new and pricy releases as they try to keep up with it. :eek:
give us plugins MM!! (one for the flash8 wishlist - which won't be read by MM anyway! - i don't like the figures Mike Chambers is quoting here :( 15000 a day :crazy:)
as I said before -> MM should create a position for someone to cruze community feedback to improve application deveopment - research-type role (I'll do it :p )

MikeP

AAAARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!
Am I the only one going nuts??!! WHEN will they release it, I know its this month but Im going crazy, several times every day I go to the mm site to see if this time I can download the trial... not time for checking mail

Am I allso the only one that is dying for all those new features, not sure if I will use them, but Im sure as hell gonna play with them. Want to know what this whole HALO bussiness is about, and to make classes and behaivours and babbelfish webservice translated apps, and code the authoring environment, make my own tools. download others homewritten tools.... as I said Im going nuts, and I couldnt hold it back any longer

Mid september.

Now go take a Valium