Piracy is good?

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Originally posted by uzerfrendly
i am saving this in a text file just in case i ever get the chance touse it however remote. i love it.

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Ah harr me heartie, I've copyrighted that, so to use it would make ye a scurvey pirate as well.

Send me gold dubloons and ye can use it all ye wants........




<piss take>
How has no-one pointed out that fospher, in pointing out uzerfriendly can't spell, has spelt his own name wrong!! Was phospher.com taken already dude??? (in actual fact it probably was, but thats not the point!!)

YaHarrrrrr. Pwned. ROPFLMPAO (roll on pirate floor laughing my pirate ass off)
</piss take>

Thanks guys for the thoughts

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Originally posted by iaskwhy
Piracy is good? Is that a serious question? Piracy is theft. There is no shade of gray. If you pirate software, your a thief.

Software is always getting better, it didn't get that way by itself. The best software takes a lot of people to make right, and that means a lot of money to research, design, produce and market it. Same for music. Today, we have the best music ever produced. It plays on the best equipment the world has ever seen. It's recorded on the best media ever. All that takes money to develop. To steal it hurts everyone.

It's a stupid question. The only ones who argue it seriously are looking for an excuse. :mad:

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I am fully aware that piracy is theft, I didn't say it wasn't. However I'm looking for different view points.

Here are some arguments that I've read for piracy

It could be argued that, it allows people, who other wise would not be designers to gain knowledge of a program (which they probably wouldn't have purchased due to the cost), they home their skills, get into a defign job, then pay out each year for the next version of the product to keep up with the industry.

Music, if for example I were to search for a track in my spare time, something from back in the day, I listen to it once and forget about it - I would never have gone to the shops to buy the track so who looses out?

Moral issues could be; we all know that we're being ripped off. If people want to sell masses of products, why have such a large price (I know that development costs is a large issue here). For example, a friend of mine is on a Microsoft approved networking course, and can get Microsorf products cheeper - £2 (a licence fee) for Windows XP Professional. Most versions of programs already have the majority of development done. Look at Flash we're up to version 7, now I'm sure that it doesn't take as much time or cost to throw out a new version, as the base is already there to build on, so why is the price constant? or in some cases increasing?

I'm not condining piracy, I'm simply to build a argument of both opinions (or excuses) as to why people do it - It's quite easy to condem those who illegally distribute software, and download mp3s, it's a little more difficult to say why piracy can be good in some cases

Mike

I also not supporting piracy when i said this.

remembering 3rd world country with currency value way lower than USD (for example), purchasing flash mx 04 equals to 3 months salary..., i really really believe, if there is no piracy, those 3rd world country could careless about this website talking about flash. and IT would not prosper in such country, and in the end WE will lose potential clients.

so i guess piracy == publicity for a very very weird reason.

what about deleted tracks that you can only now get on ilegal download ? is that ethically wrong? You could go and buy them second hand from record fairs but then the record company/ artist still wouldn't get any of the money from it's sale

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Originally posted by defuzz

<piss take>


YaHarrrrrr. Pwned. ROPFLMPAO (roll on pirate floor laughing my pirate ass off)
</piss take>

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I think you'll find it's ROGFLMPAO ... (roll on galleon floor laughing my pirate ass off)

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Originally posted by jamble7000
I think you'll find it's ROGFLMPAO ... (roll on galleon floor laughing my pirate ass off)

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I can't afford a galleon, and my pedallo doesn't have enough room to roll on. I could roll on the poop deck, but then I'd be covered in poop

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Originally posted by Trickman
Thanks guys for the thoughts

I am fully aware that piracy is theft, I didn't say it wasn't. However I'm looking for different view points.

Here are some arguments that I've read for piracy

It could be argued that, it allows people, who other wise would not be designers to gain knowledge of a program (which they probably wouldn't have purchased due to the cost), they home their skills, get into a design job, then pay out each year for the next version of the product to keep up with the industry.

Music, if for example I were to search for a track in my spare time, something from back in the day, I listen to it once and forget about it - I would never have gone to the shops to buy the track so who looses out?

Moral issues could be; we all know that we're being ripped off. If people want to sell masses of products, why have such a large price (I know that development costs is a large issue here). For example, a friend of mine is on a Microsoft approved networking course, and can get Microsorf products cheeper - £2 (a licence fee) for Windows XP Professional. Most versions of programs already have the majority of development done. Look at Flash we're up to version 7, now I'm sure that it doesn't take as much time or cost to throw out a new version, as the base is already there to build on, so why is the price constant? or in some cases increasing?

I'm not condining piracy, I'm simply to build a argument of both opinions (or excuses) as to why people do it - It's quite easy to condem those who illegally distribute software, and download mp3s, it's a little more difficult to say why piracy can be good in some cases

Mike

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Cool discussion Mike, don't mind some. Most of us realise that there's very little black and white in this world, and lots of grays... and that it's very wise to look at an issue from a more objective viewpoint to come to a better understanding of why something happens.

You make some very good points there, some of which I would have put forward myself. I really don't believe that the whole design/multimedia industry would have accelerated anywhere near as far as it did if it wasn't for pirated software, due purely and simply to the need to learn something before you can get employed to work with it. I really believe that software should be legal until you actually make any money from it.

The difficult thing, of course, is how to regulate that. Which is why the software companies have stuck with the much simpler process of just making it illegal, end of story. They tried the same with digital music, but have realised that's a lost cause so are now - belatedly - looking at how to work with that technology. Imagine if they'd embraced it from the start and been a part of it in the first place?

Also, pricing issues are a factor in looking at this subject, especially in less developed countries. For example, I read somewhere that if Microsoft was to get all the licence fees owed to them from people in the country of Burundi (a country in central east Africa for those a little geographically challenged... ;)) it would be something like 3 or 4 times that country's annual GDP. That's not something that exactly encourages these countries to develop does it?

Anyway, like I said, a few more grays to add to your discussion and understanding of the issue...

:D

There are poor countries that is very very difficult to buy a original program, and that people have to learn that programas for a living.


I know is illegal, but multiply the cost of that program x 11 and divide the sallary / 3.

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Cool discussion Mike, don't mind some. Most of us realise that there's very little black and white in this world, and lots of grays... and that it's very wise to look at an issue from a more objective viewpoint to come to a better understanding of why something happens.

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What an ass. What you really mean is to look at it from your point of view, right, cause you know all?

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It could be argued that, it allows people, who other wise would not be designers to gain knowledge of a program (which they probably wouldn't have purchased due to the cost), they home their skills, get into a design job, then pay out each year for the next version of the product to keep up with the industry.

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And it could be argued that those thieves are learning a skill from stolen software that they can then use to flood the market, lower the prices for the same work someone who bought the software would charge and then pocket the money. They aren't going to buy the next version. Once a thief, always a thief.

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Most versions of programs already have the majority of development done. Look at Flash we're up to version 7,

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That's pure crap. Look at Flash indeed. MX had twice the available actions choices alone, to say nothing of the drawing tool, library, timeline and tool panel changes that F5 had, and MX 04 is the same. And it's not up to you to decide what a company should charge for their labor. Maybe the price is so damn high because they know the world is full of you and people like Davo, who think there is nothing wrong with theft. I'd love to see you argue that in a court. See what happens when you tell a jury, "But I only did it cause I decided the company already has made enough money off fools who bought the program."

swampy
Good point, I never thought of that

TheOriginalFlashDavo
Never thought about the economy. Cheers

iaskwhy

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Maybe the price is so damn high because they know the world is full of you and people like Davo, who think there is nothing wrong with theft. I'd love to see you argue that in a court. See what happens when you tell a jury, "But I only did it cause I decided the company already has made enough money off fools who bought the program."

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did you read

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I am fully aware that piracy is theft, I didn't say it wasn't. However I'm looking for different view points.

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Mate, I'm not saying piracy is good, I'm merely trying to find possible reasons why people would use it (other than the financial aspect). You see, when you write a dissertation, as I am, you need to build a balanced argument, and I'm looking for viewpoints that I haven't considered. I'm fully aware of the legal aspects of copyright and all that sorrounds the issue of piracy, and why cracking groups began and it wasn't the intention to rip developers off - but it seems to have turned out that way now.
If you weren't too quick to get on your moral high-horse you would have noticed:

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Here are some arguments that I've read for piracy: 'bang, bang, bang' - a list of possible arguments, not my personal views

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They are all valid reasons that, in the eyes of a pirate may be used to try to explain their behaviour.

off topic
as part of my dissertation I'm writing on the effects of thew mobile (cell) phone, and how it is an antisocial medium - well I stumbled upon the social mobile http://www.ideo.com/portfolio/re.asp?x=50172 which is quite interesting

Well, all appearances and snide comments by Davo to the contrary, I'm not quick to get on any moral high horse, dude. I learned about theft when I was 10 years old, maybe younger. If you stole something then, you were considered a thief. Has something changed?

Hey, it's fine to write a disertation on theft, but to agrandize it or say there really is a scenario where it's OK, puts you on that side of the fence. Like biased news reporting, heh?

Anyway, that's my opinion.

The unauthorized use or reproduction of copyrighted or patented material: software piracy.


enough said.

no if's ands or buts.

Piracy = illegal.

those who do it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Does that mean when I was ten and recorded my favorite songs off the radio onto a tape, I was pirating music?

studio mx 2004 has proven to be a bit of an activation pain on my home system.

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Originally posted by Mystix
Does that mean when I was ten and recorded my favorite songs off the radio onto a tape, I was pirating music?

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Maybe. But probably not. You are allowed to tape programs off the TV, as long as you don't resell them and only use them for your own use. Even then, some shows have a verbal warning that says your not allowed to copy them for any reason, without written premission. You can hear that at the end of any NFL game shown on TV.

The industry isn't the bad guys here. They are as fair as they can be and still make a profit. For instance, the Made for TV movie, Shindlers List, has a blurb that encourages you to copy and distribute the whole movie as often as you want, free of charge. You are also allowed to make up to 4 copies of a music CD. It's build right into the CD and CD burners. No, it's not the little guy the companies want to screw, it's those who want to make a hundred copies, or ten thousand, print labels and sell them in stores as full retail versions.

and now for something completely different...

why can't software be free? radio is free. television is free. i would gladly accept a banner add built into the interface of 3D StudioMax if it meant i could actually own it. talk about targeting marketing - those ads would get to the exact demographic marketers want. it's even more accurate than radio/tv/web advertising.

as an employee of a large software company, i agree with iaskwhy. it's theft no matter what you do to rationalize it. i'm just saying, as with lots of other tech markets, the pricing/payment scheme is what's out of whack. give us what we want and make other (advertisers) pay for it!

i hope somday, some multi billionaire(read bill gates type character) decides to use his money to create a new nation and invents some super weapon of power unseen before and attacks us, with the reason being something stupid like you broke the anti airsmog law or something completly stupid.


there is good and there is bad. it all depends on which side you are on though. i hate terrorists they are the worst people in the world. but to them we are the bad guys. The riaa is the bad guys to me because now if i wanna hear the one good song ever made by nsync "gone" i have to spend $20 for the cd. im sorry thats lame. i dont wanna spend that m uch money for it.

now im not saying that everything should be free but there going a little bonkers. i mean i hope there not losing any sleep on that bed that cost more then my car.......

so again it all depends on whos point of view you are seeing.

im not selling things to people, i dont even give things to people, but im not costing american muscians millions of dollars, there contracts, agents, makeup crew, posse, bling, 5 cars, large house, 6 seadoos 4, ski doos, two yachts, and golden pimp cup are costing them millions of dollars. suck it up homie.

now im not condoning the real pirates who activly search out the newest of the new software, music, movies etc etc...
priacy = wrong.
sharing is caring
if your a pirate you well pirate things.
al gore invented the internet. is he the master pirate? he opened the door
can he bait a fishing pole?
if so is he a master baiter?


these are all relevant questions. there should be a set of rules or something. programs used in anyway for finacial gain in anyform. be it to make something to sell, or learn a skil to use to make money should be illegal to download illegaly. if ur downloading a song just so you can listen to it it should be fine. im so sick of musicians crying after i hear them being all like "its not about the money its about the music man, im an artist for the music." then "they are stealing all my bling" its Incrediably sad.

Dont steal.

this is the dumbest post iv ever posted and if your still reading at this point im sorry.

how about them bosox.



ooo what about the 10 second rule where you can play only 10 seconds of a song before you have the pay the artist. what if i downloaded teh song in 10 second intervals then manualy put them back to gether, is that being a pirate? what if there is a song on tv and i record it with my mike and then burn it to a cd is that being a pirate? both of those things TAKE way more effort then those being called pirates?

*gets radio and blank tape
*finds favorite song and starts recording.
*hooks up handy dandy computer to tape player thingy and converts tape to mp3
*burns mp3 to cd

is that being a pirate? cause its just taking the tape deck copy 2 steps further. did the music industry not know you could record from radio ??? why were they not crying then?



again sorry

well very interesting.

Software is free to an extent in that their are demo copies available. Some last to a month.

by this time you can get to know if you want to purchase this copy.

The only way software will become free is if it is included in a bundled package with other things.

even then it is not free.

Mike, some software is free. Linux for example.

which does not require activation that wont work with raid hard drives because the people that wrote the activation are mindless nerfherders!

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what if there is a song on tv and i record it with my mike and then burn it to a cd is that being a pirate?

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No, read the fine print. You can record from a tv or radio and save a copy for your own use. You've always been able to do that. But you can't record it from any source and resell it. Go back and find some archived artivcles about why CD's took so damn long to hit the market. It's because the recording industry said, and rightly, that people would buy one copy, then just make copies and give them to all their friends. So they compromised with the CD burner builders and put a code in the CD that the burners can read and tell how many copies have been made. Your allowed 4, legally, after that, you can't make any more copies from that CD.

CD quality is a far cry from radio recorded quality and there is no fear of anyone copying from the radio and selling copies of a song.