Too bad KM cannot handle 2D character animation

KoolMoves can do pro-level character animation and the like. It just can't do what you specifically are looking for directly. I've beta tested Moho and own it. And I rarely use it. The bone system isn't that great, and its a bit odd workflow. I'd rather draw each frame by hand, or use premade parts and swap them out (ie mouth movement)

As to your comment about Koolmoves and a nickel, well KoolMoves allowed me to get about 2k out of using it for the broadcast quality video. I'll have to scrounge up the video if it will get you to quit babbling. Koolmoves since it is vector based can output to as large of a size as you want, and easily do broadcast resolution. Email suggestions to Bob. And work with the program. Don't start a thread bashing a program its rude, and newbish.

I'm telling you. Kids these days. tisk tisk. I remember back when Flash could barely do text, much less animate.

Brian

Now THAT is hilarious!!!!

Well,..your true colors came out...Need I say anymore? Thin skins!!

My goodness,...it's pretty bad when you cannot even express your honest opinion about something without getting slam dunked. Oh well,..I need not honor the comments with any further reply. That would be "newbish". LOL!

td

True colors? Thin skin? I'm confused.

Really I do think starting a thread that states "Too bad KM cannot handle 2D character animation" is a bit rude. And acting very childish. I have no problems with people stating issues with a program, but usually it involves use issues, not a thread that bashes a program. If I have a problem with functionality in a program generally I email or contact the developer with suggestions rather then posting a thread about how the software can't do something and its "too bad" But maybe its just me. I do hope that you email Bob with a complete list of functionality that Koolmoves should have, with examples on how it could be implemented. Please if you gather up the information email it to me as well. I'd love to hear specifics.

email: Nicholas8681 "at" hotmail.com

Brian

Quite honestly,..I was corresponding with Bob long before Kool Moves had even reached 2 customers. He is a great guy, but was going at it alone with this KoolMoves project in its infancy. (he may still be solo now)

I think (as I CLEARLY stated in my previous threads) KoolMoves is indeed a KOOL program and many people have done some wonderful things with it. I never BASHED the program but merely stated what I perceived as fact that it couldn't honestly do. As a matter of fact, I even went into specifics as to where I felt it was lacking. But I have YET to see ANYTHING with professional 2D character animation with KoolMoves. I'm still waiting. It's been over 2 years.

Ahh,..we do agree on one thing. Moho does have bones,...but it is indeed awkward. It didn't seem natural to me,..how about you?

Vectors are great,..but there are some drawing features that KM lacks. I already mentioned them to Bob and he stated that it would most likely be too difficult to implement them. So,..yes,..I already reached out to him long before this.

The most frustrating thing about all of this is that KM is just a few features away from being a full featured 2D character animation tool that could blow away Flash. Not to mention waaaaay cheaper!

That being said,..I have read a few threads where some program saavy folks are trying to create some workarounds and tools to make KM do some cool things.

You made $2K off of KM. That's great! Let me ask you, what was your work around for the lip synching process in KoolMoves? How'd you handle the 3D camera movements? Did you use a variable width line? If so,..how'd you pull it off? Did you scan each drawing in and then colorize it? Were you able to use an auto gap close tool for any lines that didn't meet when coloring, or did you do do that manually before the scans or in the drawing phase?

Did you build a library in KM of various walking positions for each of your characters so that you could re-use them indefinately in the future? Were you able to scrub the soundtrack while working on the timing?

I would surely appreciate your insight since you have already completed a broadcast quality 2D animation project with Kool Moves.

I wouldn't say what KM is not able to, as with what all flash tools lack in. Flash is geared towards web-animation and design. But I also wouldn't say, it couldn't go beyond that. Look what mdm has done. http://www.multidmedia.com/ Along with other flash tools and programs.

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I already mentioned them to Bob and he stated that it would most likely be too difficult to implement them.

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I think this has more to do with time and how many KM users would benefit from it. Bob's already created a full flash program, so I don't think creating the extra stuff would be hard for him to do but more of importing it into KM, as he would have to recode some things just to put them in.

I'm still thinking about the best way to make a lip-sync program for KM. Once I get it all figured out in my head, it won't take long to program it. Actually, I have most of it figured out, I just need to figure out the actionscript end and then finish building the software for it. Hope to have something before long.

Here's a tip on getting good quality if you plan to convert your flash to an avi. Create your flash width and height twice the size you plan on using it as an avi. (here's some programs to convert flash to avi)
http://www.lencom.com/VideoConverte...;OVMTC=advanced
http://www.avi-swf-convert.com/
http://www.effectmatrix.com/swf2gif/index.htm
http://www.zealot-soft.com/index.htm
http://www.geovid.com/
http://www.mysupersoft.com/
http://www.flash-on-tv.com/
http://www.flashants.com/root/index.shtml
http://www.winmpg.com/SWF-to-AVI.html
http://www.pizzinini.net/?language=...y=8&item=37
http://www.winavi.com/video-converter.htm
Open it in VirtualDub and resize it to half the size. http://www.virtualdub.org/ Now you'll have less pixelated edges. It Just gives it a little better look if you plan to put it on dvd or vhs.

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I'm still thinking about the best way to make a lip-sync program for KM.

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I think the best solution would be to extend the sound object with a function to set a list of events and a function to set the sync accuracy. That way it can be used for more than only lip syncing.

One event could for example have three parameters. The first one the sound position the event takes place, the second one the object the action has to be applied to and the third one the action to perform.

It would make lip syncing possible but also syncing other motions or actionscript functions to sounds.

TDolce, I thought your name was familiar. If I remember correctly, you prodded me to add onion-skinning which I did.

I do listen to what people want but sometimes it takes a while for me to figure out how to implement it. I have not figured out how to implement a variable line width tool that could be pad driven.

I do have a simpler form which I would call a tappered line tool:
You draw with the tool like a pencil. On releasing the mouse, the line (actually a shape) appears with a taper to 1 pixel on each end and going to a constant width some distance from each end. In the properties box, you will be able to set the length of the taper and widest width. I could maybe figure out a transform tool which would allow selective squishing or expanding of the line shape. Is this useful?

I am obviously interested in holes in functionality which if added would appeal to a lot people.

I like Wilbert's idea.

Yeah TDolce your name looks familiar. Still can't pin it down though.

Moho bones don't seem natural probally because it is 2D. I am used to 3D work. So its a bit odd.

I do agree Koolmoves could reach better heights with just a few more features. I hope Bob adds them. Suggestions I think are welcome by Bob, just think you went the wrong way about it with this thread. Yes, I do think its mostly just Bob still. I think I was customer number 3 when it was first released. I'm sure Bob and John both remember me back when there was only 3 threads on this forum:)

As to your questions about the project. I used Adobe Streamline to convert drawings to vector format, and imported them into KM. Lipsync was simplified as it was a music video, but that was accomplished via swapping of shapes and some good timing. I synced the sound by playing it back externally while using KM.

Some of the more simpler CA was accomplished with the bones. But a lot was simple rotation. I did create a simple set of libraries for dancing and some walking. I've attached a non-colored version of an early test still. And the colored version in the next post.

I used Poser and Carrara to create templates for movement of the characters that I used as guides that I placed in as traceable images. If you have more questions let me know.

Brian

And the colored version. I apologize for the low rez. I'm trying to find better ones. But I have such a big collection of burned CD's takes me awhile to go through them. Need to organize things a bit more. Some of you old timers may recognize this a bit, I was playing with the character concept, and ended up using it as part of the film. There were about 4 characters. 2 were recognizeable. And 2 were background and were duplicated and randomized.

Brian

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Originally posted by Bob Hartzell
TDolce, I thought your name was familiar. If I remember correctly, you prodded me to add onion-skinning which I did.

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Yep,..you did! Yeah, we were talking looong before KM was in this forum!

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I do have a simpler form which I would call a tappered line tool:You draw with the tool like a pencil. On releasing the mouse, the line (actually a shape) appears with a taper to 1 pixel on each end and going to a constant width some distance from each end. In the properties box, you will be able to set the length of the taper and widest width.

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Bob,..this could be very nice!!! I use a similar type function in XaraX all of the time!! It takes a bit more time at times,..but it does the job well!!! Very well!!! Do you already have that tool or is it something that's in the works? Regardless,..yes, that would be a definate nice alternative.

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I could maybe figure out a transform tool which would allow selective squishing or expanding of the line shape. Is this useful?

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YES!! That would also be very Kool and useful!!(well to me at least)

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I am obviously interested in holes in functionality which if added would appeal to a lot people.

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I understand,...and I know that although I may not be "alot" of people, I probably do have the biggest mouth! I know Brian's shaking his head yes right now!!

I'm really getting high hopes for this app and maybe even Flashpulse will get a lip synching feature integrated!

Also,..Brian,..I like the image you shared! Thanks. Very cool style.