i totally agree.Quote:
I have a gut feeling that the education system should prioritize students that aren't up to par before they prioritize students who are above average.
it is the teachers responsibility to get the highest percentage of children through their exams.
I like what virgo says about the types of students and why they fail/succeed.
And what lefteye says about the gaining the ability to listen to a teacher.
I geuss there are two dovetailing problems here. School from the point of view of the student, and from the teachers viewpoint.
From the point of view of the student, (as far as I'm concerned) school is mostly there to keep kids out of their parents way. A lot of what you learn in school is useless. But its up to the student to make the best of the situation and get what they can out of it. That way you will end up dealing with real life better too.
But its not good enough for the teachers to say the above - a teachers job is to find something that will satisfy those students who are willling to put in the effort.
Its got to be from both sides - the students cant just sit back and say " convince me this is relevant", and "make me want to do it" and the teachers should not just say " do it cause I tell you to" or " you will see when you get older..."
I really worry about my students who dont seem to get it - but there is only so much I can do to help them. Some people have no confidence, or no aptitude. And as others have said in this thread, it just does not work to lump all in the same class -its worst for everyone.
Also, I hate it when people call it "special class". Ugh. Its so dishonest. Like you are saying - "you guys dont measure up according to our rules so we think you are stupid but we cant call you stupid - so we will call you special. " What about the things these people are good at? Rather focus on that.
Statements like this only serve to demonstrate your complete lack of judgement, experience and maturity.Quote:
Originally posted by mike6888
The use of gerunds, participles, and infinitives in daily life is absolutely non-existant. The only people using these skills are teachers, passing them down generation to generation for the sole purpose to be passed down generation to generation.
I confronted my comp teacher about this and she agreed. She actually admitted that English teachers are the only one's who need this skill.
And your teacher, although obviously wishing you'd just f*** off, has absolutely no right to make such idiotic statements. After making such a crass comment, it would perhaps be in everyone's best interests for her to consider another profession, as she seems to have run out of the patience needed to be a teacher.
Kids of all learning levels should be encouraged to take as much as they can from any educational opportunity. Certainly there are no-hopers, but even they should be seriously kicked up the arse a few times before being thrown on the trash heap of life, given a clear idea of how crappy life can be when you fail out in 9th grade.
The prosepct of spending the next fifty years drinking warm, sh*tty beer in a stinking trailer with your toothless wife and bawling brats until your liver, heart and kidneys simulaneously explode should be enough to scare anyone into getting at least a high school diploma.
But if it's not, to hell with 'em. There's always someone who wants and deserves the time.
Yeah, even you, mike6888, deserve another chance.
You're wrong. Many of the higher-paying jobs require a fair amount of writing, and if you do not have a firm grasp of grammar and basic English, you will not be kept around for long.Quote:
Originally posted by mike6888
You can't possibly apply advandced English into your daily life.
And just to go back to one of your original points here, you said that if someone really cares about something they will put the effort into doing it right. I'd guess that you care about talking on Flashkit, as you are obviously here doing it, yet look at what you have written - poor grammar, spelling errors, etc. You care about communicating your ideas here, yet you do not have the tools to do so in a correct manner. Yes, you can get by (and we all more or less understand what you are trying to say, and many of us - including me - are guilty of the same infractions from time to time) but even the most sincere desire to do something will not overcome a lack of understanding of how to do it.
Truth is subjective, facts are not. Facts are open to review and revision. That's what makes them USEFUL, that when they are found to be in error, they are corrected. Why in the world would you want to learn something your parents have mistakenly believed their entire lives?Quote:
Funniest thing I ever heard one of my teachers say. I was in health class and the teacher was discussing something and interrupted himself and said, "wait that fact may have changed" and went and checked...
WHOOAH WAIT! Doesn't that make it the USELESS subject? The fact that what I'm being taught is different from my parents. And what they learnt was diffrent from their parents. ANd my children will learn something DIFFERENT. When will that class ever teach the TRUTH?
This is tantamount to lowering the bar, or scaling education to the lowest common denominator.Quote:
Originally posted by mike6888
I have a gut feeling that the education system should prioritize students that aren't up to par before they prioritize students who are above average. Afterall, educators are the one's complaining about the achievement gaps between different groups. Does anyone know of a philosophy or principle that furthur explains this in theory? Please post with any comments you may have.
If we can't afford both remediation and keeping up educational standards, we need to take a serious look at where our money is going, and what we can do to stretch our dollars. Standardized testing doesn't improve education, it just tells you how crappy it is.
My instincts tell me that if more parents did their jobs, this would be less of a problem.
My response to that is tough sh*t. You're too young to understand the importance of getting a well-rounded education.Quote:
Originally posted by mike6888
I do not have a problem passing these classes, but I have unbreakable objection to them. The use of gerunds, participles, and infinitives in daily life is absolutely non-existant.
...
Anyone would agree that a student, no matter how stubborn, can and has the potential to show effort if given the right course. Good example: My other friend fails every English class because he doesn't care. But when it comes time to math, physics, science, and COmputer Programming, he gets A's. What does that tell you? Personal interest is key to effort. This truly isn't that tough of a concept to understand.
Interest is important when it comes to motivation, which is why you should pick a job/career that dosn't bore you to death.
But if you only ever studied what's 'relevant' to you, you'd be a sad excuse for a modern, thinking, reasoning human being and would probably get taken advantage of a lot.
You're complaining about English, I had to take 2 years of Latin. Consididering how often I encounter the English language, I find it useful to be able to derive the meanings of words I've never seen before.
Next time some one says "too young"... ugh.
Face it, age has no importance. It's your level of maturity. Some will never get it.
I wish my school offered latin, I would definitly take it.
"basic English".. basic English? What about ADVANCED ENGLISH. Having a "firm grasp of grammar" isn't quite the same thing as being able to label and pickout a gerund from a participle. I still continue this challenge. ANYONE I dare anyone to tell me a time other than in a school setting that you had to use distinguish the difference between a gerund and something else.Quote:
You're wrong. Many of the higher-paying jobs require a fair amount of writing, and if you do not have a firm grasp of grammar and basic English, you will not be kept around for long.
So there's a secret? Ah, maybe they could let that on a little earlier. That is actually what I am requesting from my teacher. Is to tell me the "secret". Why is it important. If I knew the importance of these things, (assuming that their is, which i don't believe there is) I wouldn't complain.Quote:
My response to that is tough sh*t. You're too young to understand the importance of getting a well-rounded education.
Wow harsh statement. My teacher was actually sincere in her statement, not frustrated. I went after school, on off hours to discuss this. We had a long chat about. SHE SHOULD BE FIRED? because she actaully is honest? Wow. So honesty should be rewarded with firing people? Is that how the school system works?Quote:
Statements like this only serve to demonstrate your complete lack of judgement, experience and maturity.
And your teacher, although obviously wishing you'd just f*** off, has absolutely no right to make such idiotic statements. After making such a crass comment, it would perhaps be in everyone's best interests for her to consider another profession, as she seems to have run out of the patience needed to be a teacher.
Good try to knock me down. My grammar or spelling on here is poor because I do care only about getting my point across, and you seem to perceive it with out a problem. My grammar is not bad because I lack the ability to do so, but because I am typing this up on a one shot basis without looking back. Does that make me a moron? I don't know you tell me. But, the fact that you still understand what I am communicating even with poor grammar and misspellings only proves more that extensive focus on English is not neccessary.Quote:
And just to go back to one of your original points here, you said that if someone really cares about something they will put the effort into doing it right. I'd guess that you care about talking on Flashkit, as you are obviously here doing it, yet look at what you have written - poor grammar, spelling errors, etc. You care about communicating your ideas here, yet you do not have the tools to do so in a correct manner. Yes, you can get by (and we all more or less understand what you are trying to say, and many of us - including me - are guilty of the same infractions from time to time) but even the most sincere desire to do something will not overcome a lack of understanding of how to do it.
You must have missed the rest of my statement. My parents were taught something different than their grandparents. Why in the world would THEY want to learn something THEIR parents had mistakenly believed their entire lives. Why would I want to learn something that will change by the time my children and/or grandchildren are in school? They obviously aren't sure of what they're talking about, so why preach it as a truth, wasting tax dollars only to go back on your word and admit that your wrong. Why bother?Quote:
Truth is subjective, facts are not. Facts are open to review and revision. That's what makes them USEFUL, that when they are found to be in error, they are corrected. Why in the world would you want to learn something your parents have mistakenly believed their entire lives?
You're half-right there. You learn a lot just by living.Quote:
Originally posted by ViRGo_RK
Face it, age has no importance. It's your level of maturity. Some will never get it.
Pester them, or go find a class somewhere. If you have any Jesuit high schools in your area, they most certainly teach it, the professor might do some tutoring on the side.Quote:
I wish my school offered latin, I would definitly take it.
It's no 'secret' that people don't want to hire or be around people who wear blinders. No knowledge is wasted, and being a well-rounded individual enables you to understand others, as well as be understood. It makes you capable of learning the things you need or want to know.Quote:
Originally posted by mike6888
So there's a secret? Ah, maybe they could let that on a little earlier. That is actually what I am requesting from my teacher. Is to tell me the "secret". Why is it important. If I knew the importance of these things, (assuming that their is, which i don't believe there is) I wouldn't complain.
If you can't get that, then virgo was right, your problem is maturity, not age.
(PAlexC, 5 years of Latin here, and 2 each of French and Japanese in high school; nearly killed me...)
Mike6888, you missed my point - I admit quite clearly that spelling and grammar mistakes on this board are a frequent and unimportant occurrence (and that even I am guilty of them; an odd way to try to knock someone else...). The point was that your contention is that interest motivates performance; my point is performance will always come down to basics. If you blew off the basics because they weren't interesting, then you will not be able to perform to your fullest in any endeavor that draws on them.
Take advanced math, for example. Boring as all get out (for most), but if you don't take the time to learn the basic concepts, you will never be able to do something like program a video game (or at least not as well as someone who does have that knowledge). The knowledge of 'advanced' English (which is just the more complex basics of the language) can most definitely pay off in the future - the fact that you can't see how doesn't make it worthless.
See, here is where a little work on your writing style would come in handy - let me see if I follow what you are trying to say:Quote:
You must have missed the rest of my statement. My parents were taught something different than their grandparents. Why in the world would THEY want to learn something THEIR parents had mistakenly believed their entire lives. Why would I want to learn something that will change by the time my children and/or grandchildren are in school? They obviously aren't sure of what they're talking about, so why preach it as a truth, wasting tax dollars only to go back on your word and admit that your wrong. Why bother?
"My parents were taught something different than their grandparents."
Correct...
"Why in the world would THEY want to learn something THEIR parents had mistakenly believed their entire lives."
So, your point here is that they would have wanted to believe a mistake?
"Why would I want to learn something that will change by the time my children and/or grandchildren are in school?"
Because that's how the world works? We are constantly learning new things, making new discoveries, uncovering past mistakes. You should be horribly upset if your children learn the same things you did when you were their age.
"They obviously aren't sure of what they're talking about, so why preach it as a truth, wasting tax dollars only to go back on your word and admit that your wrong. Why bother?"
What is the alternative? Our understanding of the world changes every day, and most likely we will never understand it in its entirety. Each new discovery (and revision of what is known and taught) brings us closer to a fuller understanding; suggesting that it's pointless to learn because we never really know if what we are learning is the truth is like saying it's pointless to breathe because we will all die one day.
You think she was being honest?Quote:
Originally posted by mike6888
Wow harsh statement. My teacher was actually sincere in her statement, not frustrated. I went after school, on off hours to discuss this. We had a long chat about. SHE SHOULD BE FIRED? because she actaully is honest? Wow. So honesty should be rewarded with firing people? Is that how the school system works?
Yes.Quote:
Originally posted by mike6888
Does that make me a moron?
And I'll tell you why.
You completely fail to grasp any of the value included in the answering posts, any at all, and instead continue a worthless defense of your original thought.
Which was my point exactly. To repeat myself...
It is not what you learn. What you are learning now, far above the actual content, is part of the process of teaching you how to learn.
But if you fail to catch that most simple observation, if you are unable to see the forest for the trees and find yourself being dragged inexorably towards that happy trailer park existence, I bid you farewell and good luck.
hm... None at all? If you learn something that never has any effect on your life. How is it USEFUL? I don't understand how anyone could advocate ALL KNOWLEDGE is useful.Quote:
No knowledge is wasted
The doublewide in lot 136 should suit you nicely.Quote:
Originally posted by mike6888
hm... None at all? If you learn something that never has any effect on your life. How is it USEFUL? I don't understand how anyone could advocate ALL KNOWLEDGE is useful.
A gold fish has more chromosomes than a human.Quote:
Originally posted by mike6888
hm... None at all? If you learn something that never has any effect on your life. How is it USEFUL? I don't understand how anyone could advocate ALL KNOWLEDGE is useful.
Have I ever used that knowledge before? No. Have I now? Yes.
Better to have and not need, than to lack and be caught without.
Do you think it wise to put him right next to Mulletkid?Quote:
Originally posted by hurricaneone
The doublewide in lot 136 should suit you nicely.
I'm not so cruel as to ignore the fact that everyone needs a friend.Quote:
Originally posted by PAlexC
Do you think it wise to put him right next to Mulletkid?
BWAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA!!!!Quote:
Originally posted by hurricaneone
The doublewide in lot 136 should suit you nicely.
I love trailer jokes
I know both me and virgo's posts are now gone, so this might only make sense to him, but do you think I got that 30% by working? No, I had at least 15 zeros in that class, I (used to) fall asleep every day in class to the point that the teacher would say "make sure he doesn't fall over."
Now maybe I got attention because my favorite class was a core one, but all my friends who are doing bad have at least one class they get A+'s in. However they are electives like car repair or web page design. It's just that no one sees this as a future.
wow, where to start, where to start.
lets start with this quote:
simply because facts change does not make things irrelevant or signal a conspiracy or coverup.Quote:
Funniest thing I ever heard one of my teachers say. I was in health class and the teacher was discussing something and interrupted himself and said, "wait that fact may have changed" and went and checked...
WHOOAH WAIT! Doesn't that make it the USELESS subject? The fact that what I'm being taught is different from my parents. And what they learnt was diffrent from their parents. ANd my children will learn something DIFFERENT. When will that class ever teach the TRUTH?
guess what: everyone who passed social studies before 1990 learned about places called the USSR, Yugoslavia, and Czechoslavakia. Find them on a map now.
and let's talk about gerunds. True, you probably won't be held at gunpoint and told to define a gerund and provide an example, but it's safe to say that you'll be FLIP BURGERS if you can't use one the right way (sic).
I believe the point is that the process of gaining a more complete understanding of something is always useful toward being... smarter. Even if you don't some day use that knowledge to make money or save lives.Quote:
Originally posted by mike6888
hm... None at all? If you learn something that never has any effect on your life. How is it USEFUL? I don't understand how anyone could advocate ALL KNOWLEDGE is useful.
You always hear kids saying "I will never use this knowledge" and you always hear adults saying "I wish I would have paid better attention in such and such class."
Hmmm. :)