Well, the pictures you get by ultrasound aren't of that good quality. Normally, doctors do a great job, but they're human and everybody makes mistakes sometimes...
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Well, the pictures you get by ultrasound aren't of that good quality. Normally, doctors do a great job, but they're human and everybody makes mistakes sometimes...
Have you not seen an ultrasound? You can clearly make out the face, count fingers and toes, tell the sex. If a face was missing, you'd see it.
I have seen an ultrasound yes. I'll ask my parents about it.
I've seen ultrasounds for both my own kids, 20 years ago and more. Even then, what you could see was very clearly a face, fingers and toes, etc. There absolutely could not be any mistake. If you saw this poor childs face in an ultrasound, you would not mistake it for anything other than what it is.
There was some talk about using science to help people with disabilities, and I'm all for that. But this is not even in the same ballpark with needing glasses or a cane. If anybody thinks this girl is going to have any change at even a remote approximation of what could be considered a normal life, they are only fooling themselves.
The sad fact is that occasionally, something like this comes along, and using science to keep it alive is just a bad use of science, IMO. For that matter, any use of science to keep something alive that can't live past a few hours on it's own, is a bad use of science. In the end, it just weakens the race overall. Natural selection is a process that's been going for billions of years. Science has been going of what, a hundred years? Incredible folly that men can think we know more than nature about what should live and what shouldn't.
OMG!
I have a 3 year old daughter, and i couldnt imagine...
Im... speachless,
think im gonna go throw up now
I asked my parents and they said that even though it's visible in ultrasound, it's not very unusual to find out that a child has more disabilities than what the doctors had thought before.
You think that girl "weakens our race"? She won't even be able to get children. I have a friend. One day, her father suddenly had a stroke, and he was in hospital, unconsious for a long time, for around 20 days. But he's a really good guy, and is back on his feet now. Do you think he "weakens our race" our race and shouldn't be kept alive when he unconsious for more than "a few hours"?
"random25": I agree with you.
This isn't 20 questions. And don't read anything into what I said that wasn't there. A good example is the alarming rise in premie babies. Extraordinary measures are taken tio keep these one pound miracles alive, and eventually, whatever their sex, they probably will reproduce. Imagine a couple hundred years in the future when say half the population can only be kept alive in incubaters for the first 6 months of their lives. Then all of a sudden the power goes out cause there is no more oil to run the generators. You get the picture? When more and more people only survive because of extraordinary scientific medical practices, yes, it does weaken the race.Quote:
You think that girl "weakens our race"? She won't even be able to get children.
when my baby girl was being born i prayed she come out healthy as possible and with no birth defects, I as a parent applaude the parents for raising that child and have no idea how i would handle it if it was my own, with those on here saying pull the tube, or smother her at birth, do you have children? i couldn't imagine having to make that kind of descision...
vamps
Yes, I have 2. On the other hand, I am from an earlier generation than most of you here, and stillbirths or premies didn't live when I was a kid, because the science wasn't there. My dad had 2 brothers that lived. And 3 that didn't. Do you think it was any easier for my grandmother to live with that than it is for you? But the thing is, she did. And so would you. The only difference is, now it's harder for you because the decision is yours, not natures.Quote:
with those on here saying pull the tube, or smother her at birth, do you have children?
Which still doesn't change a thing. The fact is, when a species needs something other than a natural birth and normal parental care, the race overall is weakened.
We won't even talk about the rest of the developing world, where we have the advantage of our medical science, and they still do not.
I have kids as well and see your point vamps.
It's just that this particular case is so extreme to put my kid through a life of constant torture than to end it. I would choose the latter.
But no one can say looking in from the outside here.
PS the downs syndrome thing isn't a good comparison imho.
It is ridiculous to think that we weakens the human races by letting this girl lived. I can understand that she would pass some gene that we may not need but that will never weaken the human races as much has all that we do with the air water and soil. In fact if we follow this reasoning the human kind should be put to death to have weaken the planet and a large part of it's animal life.
Agreed, that logic follows a dangerous line of reasoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by trionik
"premie babies"? You mean those who's born to early? Cause i doubt that is just genetically and will "weaken our race". You gotta look at the surroundings, whether the mother uses drugs/smoke/alcohol. It depends alot more on the surroundings than the genetical.
Believe it or not, there are a fair number of people who believe that. And in fact, the human race has done more to ruin it's nest than any species that ever lived on this planet. We invented gods to fool ourselves into thinking we have a god given right to do anything we want, because we are the "chosen". If you can't see what's wrong with that picture, then I suggest you take a closer look at it.Quote:
In fact if we follow this reasoning the human kind should be put to death to have weaken the planet and a large part of it's animal life.
If you want a quick snapshot of what the human race is doing to a "finite" world, then go out to your yard and grab a handfull of grass, put it in a small jar, fill it half full of water and watch it for a couple weeks. It will start to grow all kinds of bugs who will thrive and take over their "finite" domain. Then they will overbreed themselves into extinction by using up all their resources in a reletively short period of time and your jar full of grass will end up being a jar full of rotted, dead, crap that you will have to throw away cause it stinks so bad you can't ever clean it up.
In my lifetime alone, the worlds population of humans has doubled, thousands of species have gone extinct and many thousands more are on the verge of disappearing forever. all because we as humans have no more brains than the bugs in that jar.
In your lifetime, the population of the planet will double again in the next 12 years, then double again and maybe once more before the rot sets in. And here we are, going to the very limits of science to keep even the defective bugs alive. You think we as humans have any right to do that? And it's not all defectives we are keeping alive, it's only the ones who can pay for it. And that's even worse.
i only meant it was a good example, by the way that some parents terminate these pregnancies because they feel the quality of life is too poor, whereas others bring up children with downs syndrome who apparently live a full and happy life (obviously with some limitiations).Quote:
Originally Posted by admedia
Well i agree. I was just pointing to the fact that you cannot kill one individual saying they weaken the human races since the all human races is weakening the world we live in . My point was we most first stop destroying the world we live in and maybe after we should think of purifying the race.Quote:
Originally Posted by iaskwhy
If you think that the solution is to kill everyone well you are more radical then i am. :)
No, of course not. But without knowing all the causes of this poor baby being born like she was, I'll make a guess and say that a lot of it was because of the pollution the rest of us have already done to our planet. Remove any emotional responses from the equation, and you see that her life is going to require 5 or 10 times the resources any other "normal" life will take in the course of her lifetime, just to give her what is bound to be a terrible existance.Quote:
If you think that the solution is to kill everyone well you are more radical then i am.
Instead, if this preganancy had been terminated early, and you took the millions of dollars it's going to cost in the future to just keep here barely alive, and spent it on feeding starving waifs in other parts of the world and educating their parents about the proper use of birth control, cleanliness and land management then you could go a long way towards turning around this downward spiral we seem to be trapped in.
I'm just saying that using science to keep extremely disadvantaged people like this alive when they couldn't survive on their own is nothing more than hubris on a grand scale. When the world is already so overpopulated, makes it even worse. IMO, these parents and doctors are only thinking of themselves, and not of this poor child. In fact, they are just showing off.
Hey, if you discover early that a child is so wounded that it will get a miserable life, you can choose abortion, and give life to a healthy baby instead later. But i get sick when i hear about "purifying the race". That's the kind of ideology that Hitler used, and ten thousands of people that wasn't like everyone else got gassed to death.
I'm out of this discussion.
simply put, I think iaskwhy is talking about "natural selection" and how artificially we're overriding that. it's not about "weakening races", it's about allowing the propagation of weaker genes. In the animal world, the elderly or weak are simply killed off. In our society, they're placed in incubators, iron lungs, and hooked up to machines to prolong their life which leads to a continuance of those genes.
however, back on topic... you never know what you'll do until you become a parent. as bad as things seem, this is still their child. they'll love it regardless. and that's being a parent.
Well the sad thing is we have everything we need to do this
and we are not doing it so i think that the money spent on that girl would never have go to this kind of humanity action. Probably that instead some insurance broker would have bought an other SUV.Quote:
Originally Posted by iaskwhy
I understand everything you are saying and i think it make sense but i would not kill someonne on the fact that she is weakenning the race. I'll kill my daugther if she has no quality of life and therefor no reason to live. But that is my opinion and probably not the opinion of that child parent's.
By the way where is the cold country :)