Seems like Macromedia will be releasing Flash Player 8.5, which will have a new Flash Virtual Machine and AS 3.0. Could this be good news for us?
Direct link here: http://forums.ultrashock.com/forums/...threadid=74469
Printable View
Seems like Macromedia will be releasing Flash Player 8.5, which will have a new Flash Virtual Machine and AS 3.0. Could this be good news for us?
Direct link here: http://forums.ultrashock.com/forums/...threadid=74469
"It includes binary socket support, allowing developers to extend the player to work with any binary protocol."
What the heck is binary protocol? How important is this feature?
Man, i just got Flash 8 and now there gonna do another update. Maybe there saving the release of AS 3 until they release a version with adobe. Not sure what Binary Protocols are, probably something to do with external data.
It refers to the XMLSocket object and to the way Flash can handle data coming from a socket connection.Quote:
Originally Posted by andross_88
Up to now the XMLSocket object could transfer string data terminated by a byte zero (0x00). This is great for transferring text but if you need to transfer binary data it can be limiting because the 0x00 byte has a special meaning (the end of the message)
XMLSocket are mainly used in multiuser / multiplayer applications and the fact that we'll be able to use a full-binary protocol is a cool news, because it will allow higher data compression (faster interaction) and the ability to transfer file data etc...
:)
okies some more interesting facts on the news:
Soon (no dates for now,but believe me,really soon,i can only speak about what´s been publicly announced here ;) ) the flash player 8.5 and the flex builder 2.0 will be released as public alpha versions.
The Flash Player 8.5 has a second Virtual Machine (~Player Engine) added which has been written newly from the ground up. It also has the old VM added so that it can still also play back "old" flash content.
Next to XML Handling improvements Lapo explained it features runtime error handling,regular expressions,heavily improved performance and some other juicy stuff.
It also executes actionscript 3 (that´s one of the things the VM2 is for).
Actionscript 3 is based on the newest Ecmascript Specification and is closer to other languages like Java and C#.
Flex Builder 2 is the second version of Macromedia´s Pro Application Development Environment. Initially you will "only"be able to create actionscript 3 featuring content with Flex Builder 2.
I´ve heard strong rumors about this already a few months before flash 8 was released.
I think some of the reasons why Macromedia is doing such an in between Major Versions introduction of such big changes is on the one side to make a blast introduction for Flex Builder 2 and on the other side to have a soft introduction for the new Player which will surely dramatically change things.
It could have been not that ideal to release the completely new Language and Engine to the mass of Flash developers right away without prior "smaller circle" testing of lots of new content.
So we will see content making use of the new player features step by step in small piles in the next months and also people who are into getting and trying the new player can do so with the public alpha soon.
All of this will change many things boys :D ;)
Yeah!
... and on the XML front iw till be able to easily manipulate XML data structures using the E4X (Ecma-For-XML) extensions, which are really interesting.
I've posted a couple of resources and examples here >> http://www.gotoandplay.it/_forums/viewtopic.php?t=1506
Lapo
But flash can upload stuff now, isnt that using binary data? An image is binary and not ascii, unless I'm very mistaken.
If they really introduce binary sockets we would be able to do nice things like ftp clients, pop3 clients etc.
This would be so lovely :o)
I would like to know if there are also other protocols (not just TCP/IP) and listening sockets (because of P2P multiplayer games).
yep, but it's done using the HTTP protocol, while multiplayer games/apps don't use HTTP because it's a state-less protocol. Every time you send or receive data in HTTP you establish a socket connection, send your request, receive the data and close the connection.
This continuos open/close connection thing is too slow for multiplayer stuff, where you usually establish a persistent connection. (Actually you might also use UDP which is connection less, but that's another story and FLash does not support it)
:)
so that means you can send images and files with sockets? that would be cool!
so lapo would you say using these new protocols, it could be possible to create close to or realtime flash games. I've heard that it can be quite frustrating to code an in sync multiplayer game with current flash technologies.
this is pretty much a pre-requisite of "industrial strength" web-apps. No more loop limiting for crash timeouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomsamson
string pattern recognition, in laymans terms *.* wildcards!Quote:
..regular expressions.
Heck, no complaints from me. By the time we get to F10 we'll need that redundant engine just to play todays games at "normal speed" on 10Ghz machines. It'll be like a built in emulator that'll still play everything down to SPL files.Quote:
It also has the old VM added so that it can still also play back "old" flash content.
how close can you get without "being" that other language? :^|Quote:
Actionscript 3 is based on the newest Ecmascript Specification and is closer to other languages like Java and C#.
[i]~had to be![i] Fate is bugging me mad it doesn't report we're trying to assign values to "non-existant" variables.Quote:
full runtime error reporting, improved debugging
oh boy! Another early Christmas!!! :angel:Quote:
Alpha of Flash Player 8.5 are expected to be available for download on October 17
humm... actually there's no problem with creating realtime stuff even today with a good socket server :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_malee
The problem of keeping the sync between clients is not too much related with the technology itself or a specific protocol. It has more to due with the nature of networked games.
Binary sockets won't help too much in this department, but they will surely make socket flash applications more versatile and flexible.
Lapo
maybe you were talking about UDP support in Flash? Ah! in that case I don't know. UDP might help for realtime games, but nobody mentioned it... so I don't think it will be part of the new release
After reading through the press release I still dont understand why would it be good idea to spend another 1000USD on the "Flex 2.0". I dont see how it will help to make better games.
Plus I think its disappointing to see all the new stuff appearing Flex-only. That makes the not-so-old Flash8 look bad, having latest Flash which can not produce content for latest Flash player is nonsense.
And adobe f***s up.
Well, actually Flex isn't really targeted at games. It is a specialized application server for flash based apps... the so called RIAs (rich internet applications)Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypa
I guess it's very good that MM is pushing the flash player towards better performance and making it a powerful tool for deploying web apps. We'll all benefit from this whether we use the very expensive Flex thingy or if we go the open source way, with MTASC and eclipse without tossing a single penny.
It looks like we'll see a lot of new stuff happening in the next months ...
Lapo :)
Quote from here http://www.andersblog.com/archives/2...uilder_2.html:Quote:
Originally Posted by lapo73
"So when I refer to the Flex Framework, I'm talking about the client side portion of Flex. This will ship with Flex Builder 2, and you can use Flex Builder's built in compiler to produce SWFs that can deployed without the server."
It is not server anymore. It is application which you run in your computer to create swf. How exactly is this any different from Flash8? Except of course Flash8 can not make swf files which would benefit from new Flash player 8.5.
Games are applications too you know :) They may call them RIAs, but its still same thing - user clicks, something happens.
P.S. Flash has never been targeted at games either and so far this hasnt prevented us making games with it.
Nay... we're talking about 2 different things here.Quote:
Games are applications too you know They may call them RIAs, but its still same thing - user clicks, something happens
Flex was born as an enterprise level application server for those "boring" data-driven web applications, full of datagrids and combo boxes ... no fancy colorful sprites moving on a fast parallax scrolling :D
The Flex framework was thought for making it easier to bind data to visual components, handle the businness logic and connect it to the server side (usually large web apps based on J2EE or .Net)
The fact that now the client part of the framework can be used to develop client-only applications doesn't change anything in particular. We're always talking about a specialised set of classes and components that won't capture the interest of any game developer.
Rather, I'd be more interested in knowing when the AS 3.0 and the other flash player 8.5 features will be accessible from the Flash8 IDE. Maybe a Flash 8.5 will be released? Sort of a patch like the previous MX 2004 7.2?
yep...same here.....Quote:
Originally Posted by lapo73
although I have to say it would've been a better move from MM to incorporate the new features of code handling in the F8 player....so that devs could've start deploying apps with some of the new improvements already in the player.....it just all seems a bit backwards to me.....
hope there will be a patch soon....since they seem to consider this 8.5 player a large improvement over the 8 player....only a month old...LOL :rolleyes:
paul.
"Sorry but your brand spanking new Flash 8 isn't patched and cannot import the file"
not gonna happen. there won't be a patch for Fate unless it's a security patch. Apart from AS3 scripting, all these changes happen in the player. And there's nothing stopping the compiler accepting slightly varient AS3 code. We just don't know what the specification is. This announcement is just so close behind Fates release not to be anticipated ie. already partially implemented.
Edit: actually we do know; "based on the newest Ecmascript Specification"
notice the number 8.5! what happened to 8.1?? This is a development long in planning and implementation. Should have been included in the Fate launch imho.
hmm....I'm not sure what you mean by all this......if the player has been updated, why wouldn't they release a patch for the flash IDE to be able to use and export SWFs that take advantage of the new capabilities (code speed/error handling...whatever else) of the 8.5 player?....Quote:
Originally Posted by kidoo
paul.
There wont be Flash 8.5 update, they are including AS3 in Flash9 which comes out next summer.
The way I understood whole player 8.5 idea was that it includes 2 completely different players: 1 good, new, fast, AS3 machine for the Flex based content and another old, crappy, buggy, slow to play all swf files made with Flash.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidoo
I am quite sure the hacks appear for Flash based swfs as soon as 8.5 player is out. Before Flash8 was released you were also able to convert your Flash7 swf in version 8. It surely is possible to convert ver8 swf to 8.5 too.
Yeah! LOL!Quote:
hope there will be a patch soon....since they seem to consider this 8.5 player a large improvement over the 8 player....only a month old...LOL
Found a few more info here >> http://www.andersblog.com/archives/2...builder_2.html
A little excerpt (about fp 8.5):
Wow! JIT compilation in Flash?! This one's really nice :thumbsup:Quote:
It features just-in-time compilation to native code and its object system is much more compact and optimized. This means that not only will your code run faster (between 5-10x) but it will use less memory.
Still... I don't understand why the player 8 got released a few months ago and in a few weeks it will be already obsolete!! :eek:
now that's what i'm talking about!Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
(between 5-10x)
that's why we've been m4d supporters of Fla$h and ..just WOW!! finally!!! :grouphug:
you know what? I think I may just go back to making games in flash5 again, version chasing flash is becoming a real bore....
i'll sell you my copy, but i think the price just went up.
i heard they're working on Flash9, but it'll only work in Vista :P
of course they are working on flash9,as any software company they start working on the next version as soon as the current one is released.
Kidoo, i´d like to know your information source for the statement you gave regarding that it will only work on Vista because that doesn´t fit together with anything i heard.
and to all:
calm down mates,one can only assume why macromedia is doing such a soft release,but no need to worry before getting real facts.
As game developers we´ve been begging for ages for real overall performance boost,no?
So sit down and enjoy the facts of the good news for a while instead of getting mad because of pseudo info which isn´t set in stone yet.
yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomsamson
i was at the Macromedia UCON 2000 in Tokyo. They show'd some amazing demo stuff like a hotwheels track on a virtual bedroom floor, and flying around on this rollercoaster ride so fast the car jumped out the window. Amazing!!!
@.@
..just, well i guess that was a Director10 demo, kuz it's been a while.. to say the least!
re: Vista :p :doughnut:
Thats my point. If player 8.5 plays only Flex content faster then I am mad. I want it to play my Flash8 games faster too.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomsamson
yeah,sure,but the speed increase is mainly because of the new vm and the jit compiler.
JIT Compiler improves execution time of (all) native code.
Its less than two weeks now till the public alpha is released,so we can enjoy it soon :)
Couple of points:
1. Flex Builder 2 (AKA Zorn) will have support for ActionScript only projects. So, you will be able to use Flash Authoring and Zorn together to create ANY type of Flash content (games, apps, etc...).
2. As the Flash Platform has grown the player is no longer driven by just one product / technology. Because of this, there will be times when some of the tools won't be in sync completely with the player. You can see this today as current Flex users cannot take advantage of all of the cool stuff in Flash Player 8, and won't be able to for quite some time.
However, we know this can be frustrating, so we are going to have a public alpha of Flash 9 (or whatever we call it) in the spring that will have full support for ActionScript 3.
3. Binary sockets basically allow you to connect to anything, and create custom protocols. want to connect to an email, ftp or irc server directly? Go ahead. Don't like Flash Remoting? Make your own binary protocal. Want to send images to and from the server via a socket? sure thing.
4. All of this will be available to play with in about a week. We are having a public alpha with complete docs, so you can start to mess around with it. Again though, even if you don't care at all about Flex or building apps, you can still take advantage of the new language and player.
hope that helps clarify some things....
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Now thats really good news to me. Thanks for the statement here.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeChambers
Will there also be listening sockets?
And ... is there a native function which returns ASCII representation of binary data?
Thanks for posting here Mike and also for the wicked News.
Think this should clear some things up and make everyone even more excited about the upcoming blasts (at least it does so for me :D )
No listening socks (we have to save something for the release after 8.5!).Quote:
Originally Posted by joa__
Not sure about the binary to ASCII, but if we dont have something, I imagine someone will quickly write a library to do it.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
A Lib is not a Problem - using str += chr( byte ); - but a native function would make sense in this case beacuse the ASCII representation is needed very often.
It's too bad about the listening sockets :o)
Wow, this all sounds amazing. I don't know how useful binary sockets will be to me mainly because I don't know what they are and how to use them? But it could just be the solution I was looking to for.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeChambers
I have been developing a Flash application for a client, and one of the features it needs is to be able to save graphics modified in Flash onto the user's computer. Because of security issues, Flash can't do this (save files to the computer), but I was wondering if binary sockets could help me here?
Could I have Flash send the image (I don't know how this will be done, maybe convert the image into byte code or something) via a binary socket to the client's server and then have that server send back a response asking the user if he/she wishes to download the image onto his computer. Someone with more knowledge on this know if this is possible with binary sockets? Thanks.
Yes. Actually, you could this this today with Player 8. (we are looking at making it easier in 8.5).Quote:
Originally Posted by andross_88
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Just came across it at your place Mike:
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mesh/a...o_of_kevin.cfm
Rather neat things coming.