I'm Norwegian and I have nothing against Islam

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Originally Posted by XU1

But then I would want one for anti Christians, and then one for Buddhists, then one for Calathumpians, Breatharians, the Nude club, Gomer Pyle, Hooters, etc.

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Roll it all into an international hate crime/anti-ethnic cleansing act... and you got something there.

there's nothing wrong with nude clubs.

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The atrocities commited on the Jews are to be abhorred and no race of people should ever go through what they did, that Anti Semitic Law is a must, since anti semitism is preached with absolute venom, and hatred similar to Hitlers era and most if not all comes out from predominanly Muslim countries.

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again, this is where I break rank. Jews lost 6 million in the holocaust. Africans lost over 10-12 million in the middle passage. so with that, I'm a bit apathetic because there's no law that addresses that atrocity other than the glancing blows by hate crime statutes.

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The situation with the cartoons is completely different.

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Enable the Anti-Garfield Act.

ok, I just don't like Garfield. Never have.

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Enacting laws against offending them is just giving in to them, doing so through the UN would be suicide for free speech.

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it's a step to shut up the mullahs saying that things are uneven. the same way that affirmative action is in place (unfortunately) in the US - they feel they're not on equal standing.

so give it to them. it's a necessary step to shut up the radicals. what can they say then? It's no longer equal? naw... it's all about how you act, react and treat the people around you. react like this again in the future... well then perhaps the situation needs to be looked at more closely.

I mean... the nigh-month long French riots proved how if things remain uneven for too long, that's a powder keg that's waiting to go off.

So this is a premptive solution. They don't accept it, then that's giving in. I see this as handing the people the rope. They hang themselves, who's the blame?

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Originally Posted by gerbick

naw, you're quite correct. I typed law, thought act. But don't think it's illegal. But it's a statute nonetheless.

why not go ahead and give the other side an equal? it truly takes a lot of the wind out the sails of those saying that it's one way. let an equal one exist for them. it's only fair.

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I think thats a good point. From a PR perspective, extremists use things like this to whip up hysteria about zionist america, etc. and it might be worthwhile to consider something like that just for the sake of taking that argument out.

But, I think the origin of the act was fair enough when Arab nations were justifying their proposals with anti-semitic arguments. I may be wrong about this, but I dont think that Israel or any other country participating in the UN has tried to justify their proposals with anti-islamic arguments?

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Originally Posted by XU1

Enacting laws against offending them is just giving in to them, doing so through the UN would be suicide for free speech.

iTony

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I dont think its really a law as much as official positioning so that the members of the UN aren't forced to allow a forum for anti-semitic rhetoric which is generally not recognized as being valid by most nations. It's saying "we are officially disregarding anything you bring up if it involves anti-semitism". Its not saying "we are making special protection for Jews because we feel bad for what happened to them and we dont think anyone else deserves to be protected".

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Originally Posted by emm_eye

we love our prophet more than anything else..

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then you aren't a very good muslim. God comes first.

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Originally Posted by XU1

But anti semitism is actualy a racial law not a religious law.


iTony

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then it should apply to Muslims as well, the Arabs at least are biologically semites

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God comes first.

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I agree...

Always...

Above everything else...

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Originally Posted by Visionray

I see your point that you were offended, but I don't see your point beyond that. Are you suggesting as well that the western world create a new set of laws surrounding free speech?

What I'm trying to say, and what I've said before, is that it will not happen.

Think of why the French, Germans, Italians reprinted the cartoons in the first place. It goes back to what Geezer said...you tell someone they can't have free speech and they will only go to the extreme to show you that they have the right.

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well.. the point is every muslim is offended by this. and which is why.. this has been getting a lot of media hype..

i and most muslims naturally condemn the attacks on the embassies and the other violent attrocities.. a few people do pull things to the extreme.. which is why cartoons like this get published in the first place..

however, it is the way the west is thinking of islam(because of this small group of people who again are given all the media hype in the west as the image of islam). that is wrong.

making cartoons of any human is prohibited in islam as is said here by a few members... but that isn't forced on non-muslims..

But when you make a cartoon that is offensive and creates a wrong image of islam... especially during a time when islam is not in the good books of most non-muslims in the west.. it is really disturbing for us..

@swampy.. god always comes first.. i was only speaking in context to the subject.. :)

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however, it is the way the west is thinking of islam(because of this small group of people who again are given all the media hype in the west as the image of islam). that is wrong.

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But what have the moderates like you done to improve the image of Islam ???
- get married 4 times
- triple Talaq to divorce a woman
- Opression of women (have to wear a veil)

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Originally Posted by swampy

then it should apply to Muslims as well, the Arabs at least are biologically semites

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That is a long stretch, how far do you want to break it down?......Any one can be a Muslim,....Besides ( going back to the Holocaust ) in Hitlers Germany they were dragged out and sent to the gas chambers simply for being jewish nothing else.

You cannot compare the two as the same.

iTony

[QUOTE=gerbick]Roll it all into an international hate crime/anti-ethnic cleansing act... and you got something there.

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there's nothing wrong with nude clubs.

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You pervet you....:D

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again, this is where I break rank. Jews lost 6 million in the holocaust. Africans lost over 10-12 million in the middle passage. so with that, I'm a bit apathetic because there's no law that addresses that atrocity other than the glancing blows by hate crime statutes.

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Both equaly abhorrent in their own times, But the Jews were singled out for genocide and were not to be preserved at all.

iTony

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Originally Posted by koolbabs2000

But what have the moderates like you done to improve the image of Islam ???
- get married 4 times
- triple Talaq to divorce a woman
- Opression of women (have to wear a veil)

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All this that you say have a valid and appopriate reasoning behind them.. Perhaps i unfortunately might not be able to explain it to you.

but all these points you bring forward related to women are not for the opression of women.


In Islam.. men and women are treated equal.. there are very strict rules for women as well as men which they must adhere to.

These three things you say are definetely in no means against the opposite sex. but it is also diverting from the subject here speaking about men and women rights in islam.

Lets get back on topic with those cartoons and the western mindset here..

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All this that you say have a valid and appopriate reasoning behind them...

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Exactly - but its the way the mullahs have twisted the rules to their benefit which shows the religion in bad light... For instance Marrying multiple times... This is allowed when your first wife cant bear you a child - so you can marry the second time round... But people take advantage of this rule by marrying multiple times... I know of Arabs marrying 100's of times...

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Originally Posted by XU1

That is a long stretch, how far do you want to break it down?......Any one can be a Muslim,....Besides ( going back to the Holocaust ) in Hitlers Germany they were dragged out and sent to the gas chambers simply for being jewish nothing else.

You cannot compare the two as the same.

iTony

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people whose great grandparents were jews, people who married jews etc were all classed as "jewish" in Nazi Germany, so no, it isn't a long stretch.

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Originally Posted by koolbabs2000

Exactly - but its the way the mullahs have twisted the rules to their benefit which shows the religion in bad light... For instance Marrying multiple times... This is allowed when your first wife cant bear you a child - so you can marry the second time round... But people take advantage of this rule by marrying multiple times... I know of Arabs marrying 100's of times...

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nope, you can marry as many wives as you want regardless. So long as you can treat them all with equal love and respect and show no favouritism to any of them.

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nope, you can marry as many wives as you want regardless. So long as you can treat them all with equal love and respect and show no favouritism to any of them.

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No wonder the Arabs go on a Marrying spree... Having 100's of wives 1/3rd thier age... Money talks Bull**** walks...

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Originally Posted by swampy

nope, you can marry as many wives as you want regardless. So long as you can treat them all with equal love and respect and show no favouritism to any of them.

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i heard this once on tv.. that the reason behind this is the fact that the female population is much more than the male counterpart and is one of the many reasons why men are allowed to marry upto 4 women.. so the women don't resort to prostitution.

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Originally Posted by emm_eye

i heard this once on tv.. that the reason behind this is the fact that the female population is much more than the male counterpart and is one of the many reasons why men are allowed to marry upto 4 women.. so the women don't resort to prostitution.

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So if a woman is not married her only other option is to resort to prostitution?

That's pretty sad.

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Originally Posted by admedia

So if a woman is not married her only other option is to resort to prostitution?

That's pretty sad.

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my bad.. let me rephrase that...



i heard this once on tv.. that the reason behind this is the fact that the female population is much more than the male counterpart and is one of the many reasons why men are allowed to marry upto 4 women.. so the women don't resort to prostitution or commit sins by having sex with other men. since every single human being has the desire to..

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Originally Posted by koolbabs2000

But what have the moderates like you done to improve the image of Islam ???

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i think this is an important question by itself (without the rest of that post).

i just wonder why there doesn't seem to be a strong feeling of responsibility for moderate muslims to take action against things like this. i mean, the thing that is supposed to be the most sacred in life is being hi-jacked by radicals at the expense of all muslims.

the rest of the world is scrambling around trying to figure it out and the only help they seem to get from the moderate muslims is a bit of head-scratching and q-and-a about the proper following of islam?

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Originally Posted by emm_eye

men are allowed to marry upto 4 women

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why 4?