[F8] Orthographic engine with node based pathfinding

@ Captain_404: thanks for your kind words,- keeps me motivated

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my browsers told me something about security

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dunno about safari its propably the java script (the only one I used) from adobe that prevents the 'click to activate plugin' issue that came in lately with Opera and IE. Ever had the same issue on other sides aswell?

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i dont have any money....)

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then having a mac is the worst thing to do,- besides ever heard of open Source? Blender, PovRay, Wings3d, OpenFX, k3d are all freeware and opensource wich means they should be available for mac aswell.
I myself here have a very good university wich has most of the software I need (adobe,maya,max,zbrush,rhino,alias,...) in the pools I have access to.

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...a game that complex

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well I found a way myself avoiding the complexity. Use groups or objects for all the variables and have strict policies on how to name anything (e.g movieClips instance names always start with 'mc_'). Also I stored all the categories into seperate *.as files so that I dont need any code within flash. That way I only have a few MovieClips & fonts in flash (character, elevator menu, GUI,...) and the rest as code into splitted code files.

If you are interested I could show the very beginning on how I even came up with all 3d thingy- becaues at the beginning I was just daydreaming, never thought I could accomplish something like this.

little news ^^:
soon I´ll have to finish a project for my game & learn psychology subject wich will be a sub- part of my website. I already discussed it roughly with the professor and he really likes the idea.
I dont want to tell to much right now but here are some ideas/ concepts:
http://www.renderhjs.net/bbs/flashki...nv_concept.jpg
been working on an inventory sheme (will look like a bag once final) that works with the rest of my site. Right now I am designing a database for objects and characters that contain all kind of information and actions triggered by those objects/ characters.
All objects will have unique properties that will act on other properties or actions- pretty much like the good old point & click adventures.


so besides the new interactive elements and fixing lots of bugs I´ve been fixing several levels and I just wanted to post some screens of my development environment:
http://www.renderhjs.net/bbs/flashki...l_work_thb.jpg
image shows path/-editor, SciTE level edit, engine and level textures

so propably there will be some more updates within the next few weeks

I'm so glad this engine is becoming it's own game, it's just so amazing and cool!

I'm sure it's been done before, but this is still great for a flash game.

I'm really really hoping it's some kind of puzzlish make-your-brain-explode (kind of like those old text based games, but 3D instead..."you are in a room. there is a door. what wouldst thou do?") game, but I'm sure anything is going to work great!

@renderhjs:

sent you a PM.....please check your inbox :)

Looks very nice, as usual ! - personnaly, I'm not sure if the objects in the bag should be treated in a photorealistic manner ?!? - or is it just a mockup ?

it´s a very fast solution,- (they are acutally grabbed google images resized)
will make them prettier or redo them complete as soon as the more important stuff is done.
not online yet,- but fixed:
- Included multiple entry points for the levels (leaving/ entering from different doors within the same room)
- preloader: I hated those fade effects in the preloader- runs now way faster & optimized again
- added news board: displaying the newest drawing
- reduced engine filesize

3 screenshots for now (the main hall):

update board reads automaticly from my images DB
http://www.renderhjs.net/bbs/flashki...ogress2_01.jpg

there will be a functional vending machine serving coffee, coke or chips. It´s just that you´ll have to find, borrow or steal some money :P
http://www.renderhjs.net/bbs/flashki...ogress2_02.jpg

sliding doors in the hall are working now as well
http://www.renderhjs.net/bbs/flashki...ogress2_03.jpg

other:
- almost all levels I have so far a logical connected with each other (e.g leaving door B will get you to room x) and you´ll be placed after each loading right after the door you so have passed- it already has some adventure feeling

right now I am about creating the GUI for the context- sensitive actions. Because most objects will be interactive.
I already have a raw XML sheme that can script logical actions with chain effects- what follows is trying to write a parser that understands my syntax- hopefully that will work out in time

So, does the game have a story yet?

well lets not forget that it´s main purpose is to show/off my work but I try to sweet those sometimes boring things with some entertaining factor and some flash technology.

As for entertaining I won´t have a main quest or a big epic story- just some little puzzles & jokes letting you explore more and more artworks, scenes & jokes. I had though in mind a female character (the opposite of the controllable one) that would react on your actions (like stealing her underwear from the locker room will give you a pissed of person, while serving her coffee will make her a nice person. But I dont know if I´ll make that into the psychologic subject deadline.

From the technology point it is very important for me to easy add/ change or update art that I created maybe even daily. Also I try to create something new (at least for me) that will be hopefully way more easy to navigate for the majority and mooore fun. I want a website I really can show important people & friends so that they can see what I do and how I evolve.

:yikes: Its beautiful

new preview

http://www.burg-halle.de/~st2520/link/preview_b6.jpg
objects are now available through the engine, though clicking on their actions wont do anything yet. The objects that have pink squares around them are listed in the object-DB und thus have actions already but like I said clicking on them wont do anything yet.

here is a floormap to know what you can access in this demo:
http://www.burg-halle.de/~st2520/link/mapview.jpg
I added this floor map as there are missing some GUI elements that better visualize exit spots of a map,
- in the hall just click on that WC door to enter the toilet room
- in the elevator menu (big board in the elevator) the first item should be labeld "Top floor"- the font is somewhat bad there.

online demo

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have strict policies on how to name anything (e.g movieClips instance names always start with 'mc_')

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Inst that what strict data type is suposed to tell you?
Anyway, wonderfull work, renderthis!

@ Cimmerian:
it´s a way mainly to tell my brain what what was/ is intended to, like a rule to myself. The example with the 'mc_' for example tells me imediently whenever I access a movieclip from the stage- so I dont get confused with a variable that has literaly the same label or name. This and other patterns help me getting around with this more and more becomming complex piece.

btw. my 500th post, yay :)

It looks fantastic, it's truly an amazing flash.

I'm just curious. are you going to keep the pink squares? IMHO they really
destroy the suspension of disbelief. I don't think it will be a problem for players
to find what they can and what they can't interact with.

Another thing, I know you have solved the pathfinding by using predefined
"vector"-paths, how will this work when you have moving objects (such as
the statues (and in the future - npcs?), or are you supposed to be able
to walk through them?)

Also, you couldn't zoom in on the "2 dirty girls"-poster, you must have
forgotten to enable that ;)

You are my god.

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Originally Posted by renderhjs

The example with the 'mc_' for example tells me imediently whenever I access a movieclip from the stage- so I dont get confused with a variable that has literaly the same label or name. T

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Thats ok, but strict data typing is the oop standart way to do this same thing, you can go
myFunction(car:MovieClip, wheels:MovieClip, bullets:Array);
and so on, its just a matter of put a : and the kind of object your object is after the :
Its a good practice because it will also gives more speed in as3,for the day in the future when you move to as3

@ Kianis:
the pink sqaure are just temporarly because I didn´t maneged yet in time the square bound box effect on them (just like the 2 dirty girls poster does right now). I just need to know now what objects are already registered in the DB- that´s why the color.

about the changeable pathfinding:
for the pathfinding I have pathfinding nodes and areas that define walkable and not walkable zones. If the nodes are setup smart enough i´d only have to change the restricted area part (propably a square). I haven´t thought to much yet about it because if it would be an issue it would be one that ´ll comue later for me- but thanks for the thought I can use that.

the 2 dirty girls poster will be fixed as soon as possible ;)


@ 691175002: :hubba:

@ Cimmerian:
yes I need to do that more often, though only some objects are done that way right now.
but even with that my pattern I guess won´t change that much in the future- I really think it helped me getting it this far as now. Maybe it only gets better for me with AS3

Did you create all the skins and textures your self?

i can't agree with that.



===========================
Card games is my nature,
Can you tell me the game for me?
Reveal your future, tarot reading

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Originally Posted by Evaman

Did you create all the skins and textures your self?

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from the design sketches to the meshes to the textures to the code: everything myself

i´ll try to finish as soon as possible the inventory system so that one can pick up the itmes, manage them,...

current object inspector debugger:
http://www.renderhjs.net/bbs/flashki...b6_objedit.jpg
shows me the current registered objects, their icons (if any) and their actions)

smal update:

3d statues (mapped the previous images on 3d- meshes)
http://www.renderhjs.net/bbs/flashki...b6_statues.jpg
exit icons & notifycations:
http://www.renderhjs.net/bbs/flashki...b_b6_exits.jpg
icons on pickup- able objects (the one you can store later)
http://www.renderhjs.net/bbs/flashki...6_iconmenu.jpg

http://www.burg-halle.de/~st2520/

this seems to be becoming more than what it was meant too
it's like a coffee lounge where you can relax, no baddies to shoot at
but there is no one there

this seems really familiar, you have to do stuff to get somewhere
what a shame, i used to be able to view this place, now it wont let me anymore (added it to my trusted site too)

The updated version isn't working for me...it's just the previous version. Perhaps my computer is just messed up.

stupid me forgot to upload, then uploaded the wrong thing,-... will be online soon

yep, it seems updated now, I don't know if your supposed to be able to pick up items in this version, or look at the ones you currently have, but I can do neither.

The angel statues look a lot better now though.

EDIT: I think you may have replaced a lamp graphic with a coca-cola can. The art-deco room now looks like m. night shyamalan got sponsored by coca cola...

no inventory yet,- that´s next up. And I need to add a speech/baloon engine to it to actually let the player talk or say something (some actions will trigger that). The inventory will be pretty solid though I need to store special actions in the levels in the shared object of flash to reproduce with each new loading of what some did before in that room (e.g picked up the can, so let that one disappear,...)

My friend has a question, what version of 3DS Max are you using?

r8 but honestly all the iso- rendering stuff can be done with max 2.5+ as well. Just the texture baking was introduced in the version 6 or 7,
why he want´s to know?

He uses 3DS Max, along with myself very often. He's currently using Max 9 the, latest. I showed him the link to your game, and he is very interested in how your making the whole thing work with models using XML scripting.

that is a most fantastic thread.

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Originally Posted by renderhjs

(...) I need to add a speech/baloon engine to it to actually let the player talk or say something (some actions will trigger that). (...)

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FANTASTIC work. You should consider introducing sound.

in the future they will hand out little renderhjs, instead of sdk`s, you just have to tell them about your gameidea, feed them and give`em shiny things.

great work fella, Im utterly impressed by your drive and the results.

C.M.

thought I´d post it here as well,- been working again on this project,- been working on this knight the last few days. He´s not yet in the right pose,- but he´s supposed to pose next to doors and in hallways with a sword in his hands.
http://board.flashkit.com/board/
once he´s done I setup again a orthographic camera and render him from 16 - 24 angles so he turns smoothly in my engine

wow, nice work, that looks amazing

i would love to see that in the engine.

thx malee

almost done (just leather and other little details left out):
http://www.renderhjs.net/bbs/mmvr/knight_3ds_2k7_13.jpg
the knight texture is 4k (4096²) and the sword 2k. At this dimension some spots get blurry because of the texture size - guess that´s about the limit I can render with this texture without blurry details.

Just... Totally amazing.. I have no other words..!

How on earth do you build/design this stuff? It looks absolutely stunning!

You seem to combine design with programming just fine, wheras most people aren't even half skilled in either one as you are. Keep this up!

/me sticks two thumbs up!

You mentioned early on the importance of fast line segment intersection tests because they get called so often. I thought I could share another way to compute it which might be of some use - maybe it's faster (but maybe not who knows).

Figure 1 shows line segments (A,B) and (C,D). Start off by computing vectors AB and, AC and AD (6 subtracts). Then compute z1 = AC cross AB and z2 = AD cross AB (4 mults and 2 subtracts). In 2D these are just scalar quantities that represent the magnitude of a z-componnent "out of the page". AB cuts the page into two halfspaces, the sign of these cross products indicate which halfspace the points C and D lie within. For (A,B) to intersect (C,D) the signs of z1 and z2 MUST be different - C and D "straddle" the infinite line passing through (A,B).

If the signs of z1 and z2 are the same, return "no intersection". Otherwise...

(Figure 2) Repeat the check using CD as the cutting line, let z3 = CB cross CD and z4 = CA cross CD. Note that for z4, you already have CA computed, it's -AC, reuse it by computing z4' = AC cross CD, and z4= -z4' ). To get all this done takes 4 subtracts (to make CD and CB - we don't make CA), then 4 mults and 2 subtracts to do the cross products.

Again, for the line segments (A,B) and (C,D) to intersect, the signs of z3 and z4 must be different. If they are different, return "yes, intersection".

Figure 3 shows a non-intersecting case - C and D lie to the same side of AB, so the sign of z1 = sign of z2. This is the fast failure case.

Figure 4 shows another non-intersecting case. C and D straddle AB, but A and B don't straddle CD. This is the slower failure case.

Figure 5 shows a degenerate case - all four points are collinear to within machine precision. When these kinds of cases pop up, your cross products will be extemely small in size (like less than 10^-6 or so) and their signs shouldn't be trusted as accurate. Bounding boxes can still bail you out for cases like this.

There are additional degeneracies where the lines overlap and intersect at infinitely many points, or intersect right at their endpoints. These are all characterized by (near) zero cross products popping out - it's tough to say what correct behaviour is in these cases, that's more up to you as the application designer. For these degeneracies I would just flag the result as uncertain (through the return value) and then leave it up to the caller to figure out what to do (usually this means calling another, more certain, checking function).

As an implementation remark, I would do this all "in-place" just using doubles allocated off the stack (variables local to the function) instead of new-ing a bunch of vector2D classes and calling .cross and .dot member functions. As a line intersection predicate, I would think this is generally cheaper than computing the intersection (which takes 2 vector subtracts, 2 normalizes, 3 vector dots and various scalar subs/mults/divides - at least the way I do it. It's those normalizes that hurt the most, but maybe you have a faster way). Of course if you actually NEED to compute that intersection and use it later, this tidbit might be of limited use.

Hey render, how much time did you take to reach this level of perfection?
And, is there any book/online tutorials about 3d max that you recomend the most?

I love the model. I guess when I think of armor like that, I think more shinny and polished. But the textures are well done. Wish I could remember how to unwrap. What dimesions are those maps?