Do you guys have enough patience to play flash games?

Out of interest, how many people here keep an eye on adver-games ( Such as at www.thefwa.com ) ?

I'm guessing very few.

In terms of gameplay the majority of adver-games are pretty poor, but there's so much to be learned in terms of presentation and overall love.
You can always tell people who release a personal project but actually do adver-games as their day job, the level of shine is a mile away from the majority of Flash games.

For me keeping an eye on games there is as important as browsing newground / kong etc.

Squize.

I played 2 of your games cadin you're very good and most of those games are very original.
you are going to tell me that "plant pong" is a rehashed idea.

loved your prodigy game squize only played it till level2 you could've been more forgiving,
I can't give any real feedback.

good luck to you all.

Im a casual player

I cant play a single game for more than 5 minutes, i need to be changing game, the great ones make me replay

Thats why i use to get demos for all the games i can, because i love to play one level, so i prefer games where all the action start at the begining

Squize: Totally agree about advergames.

Never_land: Thanks.
Inspirations for Plant Pong include: Peggle, Breakout, Bauns, Plantasia, and Feed Me.

There's a big difference between being inspired by a game and making a clone of a game. Maybe that's the point we're getting hung up on.

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Originally Posted by Squize

As a game dev there's nothing I hate more than killing myself on a game only to post it somewhere and just get pointless glib replies, usually on 1 line. From my peers I find it so dismissive, it's like "You guys know the pain that goes into making something like this, so either play it properly and post something worth while, or don't".


Squize.

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Thats really good. I'm guilty of doing that myself, and hate it when its done to me. My games still kinda suck, but have (i'd like to think) good gameplay and the "fun" factor. Just sucks when someone says, its good.

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Originally Posted by cadin

I have to say I'm surprised at the number of people here (who are presumably making games) who claim to not like them and/or not play them.
Could that has something to do with the glut of crappy games out there?

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I don't think the crappy games leave a bad taste in my mouth, since I usually can spot one before clicking on one. But if you ask me the last time I went on a game website and played a game, it would have to be a few months back. I think thats a bad thing since I don't know what the latest crazes are, but the people who made the latest crazes didn't know it was gonna be a craze...craze..
I have just enough patience for games that end in less than a minute. Games that I can compete with others as if to say, you can't beat my score!. Like helicopter. I like that Adrenaline Challenge thing by Crazy Monkey. Or that one tire game. I actually even enjoy playing one of my games (bias lol) since it's that exact type of game. (Jubble). It didn't get great reviews, but some people loved it like me.
I'm working on another unfinished project that follows the same mold.

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Originally Posted by cadin

If you make games you should also play games.
Even if nothing out there inspires you (really?), it's helpful to take a look at other games and think about specifically what it is you don't like about them. Then make sure you don't do any of those things in your games.

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I don't think this is entirely true. What if you try to make a new type of game that hasn't been made yet? New type of art that isn't popular yet? It's happened many times. Music has changed, art, games, etc. They didn't look to others and say, I should do that!

I'm not saying you shouldn't look at other games, but I'm just saying it isn't a requisite to make a great/popular game. (although great and popular shouldn't be in the same sentence)

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Originally Posted by cadin

Never_land:
It's naive to think you will produce good work by working in a vacuum.

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That was good too. For one you wouldn't be able to breathe. But back to what i said earlier, its possible. Just not to the extent NL was mentioning.




This thread is shocking lol. I knew I wasn't alone, but it seems like we all have different reasons as to why we play and don't play flash games as often as we should or shouldn't.

cadin, I do se the peggle inspiration,

I like to inspire my self from toys, yes I said it toys, I still have my old toys and play with them to make game ideas out of them. I once had a game idea marathon all ideas where from my old toy box.

The only games that have been inspiring to me are:
Bioshock, Super Mario Galaxy, resident evil 4, LittleBigPlanet, Metal Gear Solid 4, Super Mario 64, Paper mario: the thousand year door, World of Goo and some other games.

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Originally Posted by Never_land:(

cadin, I do se the peggle inspiration,

I like to inspire my self from toys, yes I said it toys, I still have my old toys and play with them to make game ideas out of them. I once had a game idea marathon all ideas where from my old toy box.

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I do the same, also i like to go to blockbuster to see covers or toy stores

Wow Never Land you sound like a harsher game critic than me?! o.O

I find a good mix of the spectrums of inspiration,
There is looking at crap inspiration to go, oh i can make a game much better than that.
and then looking at the few games that are good inspiration and going WOW it would be great if I could make a game even half that good, im going to try!

""I like to inspire my self from toys, yes I said it toys, I still have my old toys "
I did that up to the age of about 16, then i fealt very childish and stopped. no offense. But maybe I should get back into it? :D LOL

Alillm dont just go to newgrounds for the newest games,, i cant believe how outdated that site is, there are much better, and newer games to be found on other sites.

And maybe I should check out this advergames?

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Originally Posted by cadin

If you make games you should also play games.
Even if nothing out there inspires you (really?), it's helpful to take a look at other games and think about specifically what it is you don't like about them. Then make sure you don't do any of those things in your games.

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I sort of agree and on some way dont. Its one thing to look at new games or just games in general, like the ones you liked a lot when you were younger. And think about what makes them good or what parts you dont like. Its completely other thing to really play them through, to enjoy the game, to play it so much that you see dreams about it. To know every item and memorize every move and find every secret.

I dont think such players can make good games for 2 basic reasons, first they dont have enough time. They dont have enough time to even eat properly, when are they going to find time to create a game? Secondly, if they make a game, it will be poor remake of the original thing because thats the best thing they know of. To return back on writing books example (which to me is pretty similar to creating a game), huge fan of LoTR probably only manages to write pretty poor fan fiction on the same theme. To me its same as seeing "remake of 1984 Amiga game with original ripped graphics and even carefully included all the bugs", thats not creating anything new, just taking something already made and repackaging it.

Of course I look at Flash games and I try them but as inspiration I dont find them very good. Watching a TV show, listening a piece of music or wondering how bicycle works may give you better game idea. Taking an idea and playing with it is most fun for me. Once I know the idea can become a game, a completely new game, something that does not exist yet, everything else is just matter or learning how to write code and sparkling it up with graphics and sound so it looks and feels pleasant.

that is part of the problem tonypa, too many people just try to recreate a copy of what they like, instead of being original.

thats why 99% of all RPG's are either a final fantasy, or everquest knockoff.

Thats why every shooter is the same,

Etc Etc.

Darn Ive always wanted to make an RPG.

Tonypa, you prove that as game developers, we need to be sure to play lots of games, not just get stuck with one game or genre. As you said, if someone who just reads Lord of the Rings, they'll simply write a copy of it, which is why someone should read some Lord of the Rings, some Shakespeare, and then Animal Farm, to get the full picture of writing books, and incorporate something new from each type of book, and in turn get inspiration.

Playing a Flash game is just as inspirational to me as taking a walk in the woods, listening to some music, looking through a bookstore, chilling with friends (not so much actually...hell they'd all give me a funny look if I mentioned making games with Flash...but I'm sure that for some people it gives them ideas depending on what types of games they like to make). My absolute favourite time to think up ideas and think of new ways to do things in code etc. is walking my dog or going out mountain biking by myself, late in the afternoon. In the sunset, just sitting down in a field or whatever, I can think a lot, and the landscape gives me lots of ideas. Nature does that...

When I get the chance/will to play internet Flash games, and if I play several of them, sometimes some of my ideas will bounce off each other while I'm playing the different games, and each one will give me something new and original, except of course absolute garbage that sometimes pops up on Newgrounds.

Also, seeing all those RPG/Shooter clones doesn't bother me (as a developer), because it only encourages me to keep going with my current project. Everytime someone creates a good shooter, it shoots a jab of worry through me in case they took my ideas :P

I personally try not to play lots of games, and in the end making them is more interesting to me, but I usually end up just checking out Newgrounds hits every week or so...Or if a friend shows me a game once in a while (Last month or so he showed me Ski Runner (google it). It's nuts! )...

And my last, great inspirational source is here, on Flashkit. I like seeing new threads, especially the ones about AI, 3d, or...hell, which ever one's got some serious depth into it.

lol. I sometimes find myself in physics class coding in my head on how to incorporate it in flash lol. funny stuff. I doze off and daydream about flash...

I don't think you need to read books to make a great book. You don't need to take anything as inspiration. It's probably better if you do, yes, but you don't NEED to. Who showed the first person who wrote a book how to write? First SciFi book. First romance novel. First.... ya.

Who did mosaic take as inspiration (I think that was the first search engine).

You can make beautiful games and stuff with no inspiration.

I try to find some pretty abstract concepts when I look into games for inspiration. I think it's better to only look at the good parts, as I would find laying down rules about what NOT a creativity killer. I saw someone play Black and there was this part where mines would explode in sequence if you would trigger one of them. Looking at that part made me scribble down: "Chain explosions. Lots and lots of chain explosions".

Also my dormmates provide the necessary insights in gamers. Once in a while we raid the 2nd hand sections of the local gamestores for PS2 games. I like the tactical shooter kind, so I once bought Freedom Fighters (which could be punishing if you didn't think before you would act). One of my dormmates was immediatly turned off and said: "I can't run and gun?" We did have a lot of fun playing splitscreen Battlefront2 though. That made me scribble down: "Run and gun", and "Hectic: battle is fought all around".

I combined those three in the basic concept for a shooter. If I got those main concepts I lock it. I don't look for inspiration anymore as I want to stay true to the concept and not pollute it with all kinds of stuff. So from there on out I build on it using my own creativity.

To apply this to the top 10. I was impressed by the two sidescrolling strategy games, especially the World War I themed game. With so little to work with they still managed to make strategy matter. Great inspiration on how to balance your game.

I don't think anyone here has said something untrue.

Personally, I don't play a lot of flash games. I don't actually play many games at all, anymore. However, I do admire games and their ability to convey either a story or an idea through interactive content. Action games (God of War, for example) tell a story while allowing the player to control the action. Puzzle games (World of Goo) tell a story while allowing the player to solve puzzles. Every game tells a story somehow. It reminds me of those "Choose your own adventure" books from the 90's.

So, while I don't play many games and I don't publish many games, I have many IDEAS for games. I think up some sort of gameplay or interaction dynamic that I think would be entertaining and I fall in love with this idea for a time. Sometimes I have the strength and passion to bring it to fruition (whether I do a good job of it or not) and sometimes I start a little prototype and wander off, never to finish, and ultimately to forget.

So, personally, my philosophy is not to create games for sale, but rather for myself. If I wouldn't play it, why should I make it? If it's not fun while I'm making it, why keep on?

I'm neither a gamer or really a producer. My ideas for games are more sentiments of things I would want to do. It just so happens that I have some of the knowledge to make a simulation of what might be impossible for me in real life.

I play many games but not deeply, I just analyse them, try to understand how they work, and how they coded this thing, I try to get some inspiration from the game mechanics. Very rarely a game catch my attention and I get addicted. "Magic pen", "Splitter", the first "Tower defense", "Suicide salary man".

Definitely. Partly for enjoyment, partly to find good games for my nascent games portal, and partly to see the general state of flash games.

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Originally Posted by samvillian

I don't think you need to read books to make a great book. You don't need to take anything as inspiration. It's probably better if you do, yes, but you don't NEED to. Who showed the first person who wrote a book how to write? First SciFi book. First romance novel. First.... ya.

Who did mosaic take as inspiration (I think that was the first search engine).

You can make beautiful games and stuff with no inspiration.

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That's a huge overstatement. No inspiration?

None of that stuff came into existence from nothing, it's all evolved from previous work.
Before the first book there was the first letter, first note, first alphabet, first language, first story.. everything goes way back.

Flash games are very experimental compared to most stuff out there. I try to play on Xbox, PC and Flash to keep up with what's going on and get inspiration. Inspiration can be abstract also, not just "hey I'll copy this thing A to my game".
I think I probably get more inspiration outside the games but still it's a very important part to know what has been done before your game.

I know that all my games were inspired by other games, I am just saying that a game can be created with no outside inspiration...

w/e i may be wrong...

I think Ali made a good point about Flash games never quite feeling right in the way downloadable games do. Flash games do feel more disposable in some way. Maybe it's because you're usually surfing other things at the same time you're playing them, you never feel completely engaged...it's not like you have to quit the app or minimize the window to get out of the game. Maybe it's the advertising around them, the fact that the UI/colors/typography of the site they're sitting on bears no resemblance to the interface of the game, or just the fact that they're in a browser window and rarely run larger than 640x480, let alone full-screen. That's partially the fault of the Flash team for their idiotic refusal to enable all key listeners in fullscreen mode...any game more sophisticated than something you could play with an original Nintendo controller is pretty much out, so you don't see full-screen gaming platforms that keep the user in Flash and allow for sophisticated kinds of user input. Simply having a chat room in your game means you can't go full-screen.

And maybe there's something to be said for coding to the standards and best practices of a particular OS. As a Mac user, I'm always kind of let down by games ported from PC that run their own Windows-looking or otherwise nonstandard preference boxes, menus, open dialogs, etc. rather than implementing OS X's. It's fine if you're working in Maya or something; you expect to be looking at a platform within a platform, if only because it's always been that way. But playing a lousy port can undermine the whole game experience, and in a lot of cases, a flash version even with a nice interface looks like a lousy port because it's on a website that has no aesthetic relationship to it.