you jerks, wake up to yourselves.
Nothing good is ever achieved by burning books, but if you are looking to be well hated, and want a bit of notoriety, go ahead. Ideas and ideologies cannot be destroyed by fire.
As I said before ....jerks.
davidp
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you jerks, wake up to yourselves.
Nothing good is ever achieved by burning books, but if you are looking to be well hated, and want a bit of notoriety, go ahead. Ideas and ideologies cannot be destroyed by fire.
As I said before ....jerks.
davidp
id burn every twilite book i could get my hands on as long as someone provides those books for free
I reckon all these radical religious fruitcakes should have an annual international book-burning convention.
They could fleece their followers for the airfare, bring whatever books they want to burn, and get together in a stadium with worldwide media coverage, where they can see who can build the biggest book pyre and develop the most novel way of starting their fire.
Once they ran out of books, they could start on each other.
I agree. Anti-religious bigotry is wrong in all of its forms.
I assume that you have a similar message for the "artists" desecrating Christian symbols and other religion based insults as well (like those that have popped up on this board for example)?
Just let Triumph loose to poop on all of the religious icons regardless of faith and be done with it.
http://mynameisearlkress.com/weblog/triumph01.jpg
That's not my worry anymore, let the bosses here know and they can go and be censors.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
I used to care.
no. just people who burn books out of narrow-minded bigotry and hatred.Quote:
I assume that you have a similar message for the "artists" desecrating Christian symbols
<addendum> did you miss the topic title?
So, if someone wants to express themselves by burning a Qu'ran, they are jerks. But, if they want to express themselves by burning a bible, it's ok?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
You aren't getting it are you?
.Quote:
just people who burn books out of narrow-minded bigotry and hatred
In other words, that means anyone who burns books because of narrow-minded bigotry and hatred.
...oh, hold on, they are the same words.
dp
...reads like the latest book-burning event has been cancelled.
http://www.radioaustralianews.net.au...97.htm?desktop
Common sense prevails.
It just breeds hatred, and the world has enough already.
No. You haven't made it very clear what you mean since you seem to be distinguishing insults on some basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Ok. So, as long as it's book-burning in style, it's wrong against any religion. Burning a Qu'ran is wrong while displaying a crucifix in urine is ok?Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
I never quite got the whole concept of burning books. It's not like more cannot be printed.
Why not take it upon yourself to fly there, burn the books in front of the people you wish to offend/make a statement to, place yourself in harm's way as opposed to creating a situation where the unnecessarily created anger is displaced and innocent people that didn't burn the books take the brunt of that aggression.
Simple terms... want to make a statement, carry yourself into the middle of that quagmire and let the people that you wish to make a statement against see your face so they can accurately tell you how they feel... or show you.
Hiding behind a camera, sending a message and no fear of consequence is a rather complacent, lazy and fearful way to make a statement. Being around like minded people, surrounded by what makes you comfortable, and having no fear of any repercussions... it gets real easy to make a statement. Even an idiot can do it.
Rally, go deep into the belly of the beast, let your faces be seen. Make your statement in front of the people that you despise... hell. I'm starting to understand why the civil rights movement was so effective and left a long-lasting feeling. They marched in the middle of "enemy territory", had dogs, angry mobs, police, extreme organizations all threaten them, in some cases kill them and they still kept going.
Book burning is the coward version of that. You can burn a book in your backyard. Nobody would know. But televise it, put it on YouTube... you've done nothing more than film your cowardice.
</soapbox>
I disagree than any book should be burned. Be it the Holy Qu'ran, Bible, or even Reader's Digest or National Enquirer... make better "statements" through better means. This will cause an uproar that makes General Petraeus' job that much harder and nothing good will come out of it... other than the self-fulfilling satisfaction that somebody got their ego-driven whim out of the way.
Meh.
Sheesh dude. Which bit of anyone who burns books because of narrow-minded bigotry and hatred do you not understand?Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
Where in this topic have I not made my thoughts on book-burning very clear?
I choose not to get into the artistic merits, or lack theroeof, of someone doing something to the bible that does not relate to some religious narrow-minded, hating bigot setting fire to it.Quote:
Ok. So, as long as it's book-burning in style, it's wrong against any religion. Burning a Qu'ran is wrong while displaying a crucifix in urine is ok?
You want to discuss urine soaked bibles, start your own topic.
david
:thumbsup: for that post. Well typed.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
davidp
...and just to add to this, my objection to book-burning has nothing to do with insulting anyone. It has to do with destroying knowledge, and the deeper implications of what is going on.
As gerbick said, it is cowardice, and I believe it is about someone or someones, trying to control the emotional temperature of the weak of spirit, or stupid, and who thinks that destroying knowledge is OK, as long as it is someone else's knowledge and serves it inciteful purpose. Everyone likes a good bonfire.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
Isn't that similar to people making anti-religious insults on the internet?
Right here:Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Quote:
I assume that you have a similar message for the "artists" desecrating Christian symbols.
The basis for your original message appeared to be that it's wrong to be bigoted against religion and to make public displays of it.Quote:
no. just people who burn books out of narrow-minded bigotry and hatred.
However, you don't seem willing to apply that same basis toward other instances of anti-religious bigotry. It's not clear how or why you would distinguish different instances of it.
So, if this person who planned on burning the Qu'ran told everyone that it was just art, you wouldn't have a problem with it, regardless of how people responded to it?Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
What knowledge would be lost or destroyed if he carried this out?Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Nonsense. the basis of my original message is very clear and this is what it said "Nothing good is ever achieved by burning books, but if you are looking to be well hated, and want a bit of notoriety, go ahead. Ideas and ideologies cannot be destroyed by fire."Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
So tell me which bit of that actually saysQuote:
it's wrong to be bigoted against religion and to make public displays of it
Because my objection is about the symbolism of burning books. I don't care which books.Quote:
However, you don't seem willing to apply that same basis toward other instances of anti-religious bigotry. It's not clear how or why you would distinguish different instances of it.
I have no idea. I somehow doubt this person considers what he was going to do art. Can you confirm otherwise?Quote:
So, if this person who planned on burning the Qu'ran told everyone that it was just art, you wouldn't have a problem with it, regardless of how people responded to it?
you know, every time I bother to type a response at you I just wonder why. This was a symbolic book-burning action, and it's intent was inciteful, either to rally others to an evil cause, or to bring others together with a common purpose that is detrimental to humankind. A man with lies and hatred in his heart, and malice to those who are not like him.Quote:
What knowledge would be lost or destroyed if he carried this out?
He should crawl back under his rock, and there should be a special place in hell for those who burn books.
Isn't the specific intent of the symbolism the issue?Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
If a guy burns some books to make room in his attic, I assume that you don't take issue with it. If a guy burns his college books to symbolize that he wasn't happy with his education, does that make him a jerk?
I never wrote that he did. It was a hypothetical question.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
My position is that once something is made to be a public expression, it becomes a two-way equation. In other words, if it offends the group associated, it doesn't matter if the creator says it shouldn't, is art or whatever. Unless the person is genuinely unaware of how it would be received, it remains inciteful.
You confirm my impression in the same post that this sentence appears:Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
I agreed and asked you a question in response. Whether or not you have the same feelings about other symbolic acts, inciting anti-religious bigotry.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
...can't be bothered.
Anyone who is interested in a quick read -
http://www.helium.com/items/1946481-...f-book-burning
Thanks for the article.
Pretty much sums up exactly what I was getting at. Burning a holy book is bad because there are negative social implications. Same with desecrating other religious symbols. Whatever the person hopes to accomplish by it is "not nearly as important as what will surely happen."
Not sure why you would have such an issue "bothering" to agree with that.
Because I don't care that it was a holy book. I care about the impact and motives of such an act, regardless of what book is being burnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
The fact that it is a holy book for more than half of the world is bound to have more impact, but the evil and ignorance behind the act does not change, and that is what really bothers me ...NOT the fact that the book is holy.
Some German Jewish poet almost 200 years ago said it best with something like "first they burn books, then they burn people".
<addendum> actually, this was the line - Das war ein Vorspiel nur, dort wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen." ("That was but a prelude; where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people also.")
It's ok he already got all the media attention he wanted without even burning it. He "canceled" it due to pressure from political people from around the world.
Does anyone think he was actually going to burn it? I think it was just a big stunt and he wasn't actually going to do it from the start.
Right. And the exact same principle applies to other religious symbols that some have desecrated. It's the same result. The article you linked to points out that the result is what is important, not the item.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
I dunno, I kinda think they should prevent the mosque from being built until the non-extremists step up and police their own religion.
LOL with that line of thought no religious building will ever be built.Quote:
Originally Posted by jAQUAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
Are you still trying to prove a point about religion when I have made it very clear that I just don't care about religious stuff?
I did not start this topic to talk about religious stuff, and have tried to tell you so many times that this topic is NOT about religion.
It is about burning books. If it were a dictionary, and he were buring copies of it because he thought it came from the devil, I would still be typing my disgust.
...for Gods sake, give me a break here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jAQUAN
Does that mean that you might think more peaceful non-extremist christians should be down in Florida policing their own religion and making sure that this inciteful act of burning another religion's holy book does not occur?
And making sure the anti-abortionists do not break the law by killing doctors?
...and walking out on preachers who use their pulpit for political purposes?
...just wondering.
david
I haven't tried to prove a religious or any other point in this thread. I'm just trying to understand your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
That isn't true.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
You said that the problem with this act is that it is inciteful. You posted a link to an article that explains the same thing. I simply asked if you have the same position about all similarly inciteful acts.
Would you be disgusted with someone for burning Mein Kampf?Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Easy answer - Yes. I would find it very disturbing.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
...and stupid, and symbolic, and have nothing to do with the book. Thoughts can't be destroyed by fire.
This incident in Florida is theatre for the lowest common denominator and demonstrates how easy it is to live a free country, with free speech and justice for all, and yet use that free speech to demonstrate total intolerance of other points of view and promote hatred and fear.
As Gerbick indicated earlier, book burning is a coward's way of causing conflict.
would i be disturbed by someone burning Harry Potter books? ....sure. I was when I heard it had happened in New Mexico, along with ACDC records, Stephen King novels and Walt Disney's Snow White.
I think bookburners might all have one thing in common - evil, poisonous and hate-filled thoughts that they think everyone should share.
david
Point #1: People who burn books are jerks because it's ineffective at destroying thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Point #2: People who burn books are jerks because it promotes intolerance and hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
These are two separate points that you've switched between. My question is regarding point 2. Do you think that people who desecrate symbols that are important to a lot of people are jerks because it promotes intolerance and hate?
I have not switched between them but i have expressed both.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
Are you stalking me or something?
...go and start a thread about your feelings on the descration of symbols. I might come along and post ...but it is doubtful ...I don't like how you type, I never have.Quote:
Do you think that people who desecrate symbols that are important to a lot of people are jerks because it promotes intolerance and hate?
I want to talk about bookburners and say what i feel about them. If you want to agree, or disagree with me on that topic, then feel free to offer your opinion. But don't try to paint me into a corner with words, your games are old and stale and I hate doing repetitious stuff.
"Century after century, the book burners have lit the fearful, powerful, magical fire to reduce to ashes the fearful, powerful, magical books." - Haig Bosmajian
"books are the target because they are the embodiment of ideas, and if you hold extreme beliefs you cannot tolerate anything that contradicts those beliefs or is in competition with them" - Rebecca Knuth
No. I'm asking questions related to the thread you started. That's generally how internet forums are designed to work. It's a public, open discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
I'm not interested in expressing my feelings about that. I am curious what yours are on the subject you posted about. I've become more curious since you have been unwilling to answer simple questions, directly related to a subject you expressed a lot of emotion over.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
How can I agree or disagree when you can't be clear about your position?Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
You say you are against book burners. But, you are unclear about whether or not you are against the incentive of that act in principle. Is it because you think that there are exceptions when it is ok to be inciteful and hateful toward some groups? (Provided that the hate isn't expressed via burning books, of course.)
I think you are being obtuse and silly. I am in principal opposed to book burning. It is wrong in my eyes because it is an act of hatred.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
If you want to talk about urine-soaked bibles, feel free to do so. I won't comment. It is not the same act as burning books.
So, the pastor would have been ok in your eyes had he only said that he was going to pee on the Qu'ran?Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
And I'm the one being silly?
oh dear, you asked me about artists desecrating the bible as some sort of artistic statement and now you want me to respond to the pastor pissing on the Qu'ran?
you are being very silly...go and chat with casey.
People who burn books burn people (Heinrich Heine). It happened in Nazi Germany.
http://atheism.about.com/od/weeklyquotes/a/heine01.htm
It is really lucky that the Book burning in Florida cannot happen, because the Fire Department does not allow to burn paper with ink.
The world pays too much attention to the fanatics that scream the loudest and plot the hardest to shock their way into a headline.
That Florida pastor has a congregation of about 50 people in a country of almost 350 million yet he has the mindshare of damn near the world.
That's a very bad message to give to the radicals that represent a supreme minority of any area or ideal. Scream, shout, holler, threaten to desecrate something and you too will get on each and every news channel and media outlet out there. I can't help but feel disgusted.
And I'll tell you all about it in my upcoming book, "Pooping on Church Pews & Public Icons: The Getback"
I assume I get to write the forward...Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick