Explore thoroughly: http://www.submethod.com/
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Explore thoroughly: http://www.submethod.com/
hey creep. (that sounds bad, i mean it in a nice way :D)
that's definitely a great site. great sound and i always enjoy experimental flash. for future reference it helps to post the url in the subject of the thread. helps with the feedback.
thanks for the link.
check out:
http://www.designgraphik.com/
http://www.vir2l.com/
i believe some of the designers from submethod work for vir2l. :)
just hard 2 read some of the text.
There was some guy shaving on this site!
Its a nice site, the only thing I would recommend is that you deal with your issues. Wheres the love,,...man??
:)
no thanks.....
I thought "GREAT" when I saw the main screen.
But I gave up half way through those samples. It turns out these guys don't really have anything to say after all.
I think it's refreshing that there is a site with words and attempts to say something, but let us not forget, words mean nothing unless they are arranged into meaningful sentences which is not the case here , just like they say on the front page, before you speak better have something to say.
They should have stopped speaking at the first page because obviously they are just another bunch of designers who try to pass themselves off as artists.
Quote:
Originally posted by Taiyo
They should have stopped speaking at the first page because obviously they are just another bunch of designers who try to pass themselves off as artists.
Woah, that's harsh! Talk about letting someone have it. The funny thing is its absoultely true. Its like a group of people saw someone else's sensitive web site and said, "I can do that." I found the graphichal depiction and layout of the site much in the fashion as the two sites Mr. 8minus8 = ZERO posted. Anyway cheers and jeers all around.
I found it resembled volumeone.com alot but in a darker way. All the pictures were done the same and in the same type of order...I like volumeone.com better though
Yes I completely agree. Seems like most web designers think that because they are using flash that they need to look and act like artists.. many of these self-proclaimed experimentalist web designers don't have any real artistic background, and compared to most real artistic sentiments, their art + web design comes off very bad, rather silly actually. Why not just stick to designing things, if that's what you're good at???? :PQuote:
Originally posted by Taiyo
obviously they are just another bunch of designers who try to pass themselves off as artists.
:)
it's actually ms. 8minus8 to you. ;) the reason those sites are similar in 'fashion' is because those sites were designed by the same designers. i was just bringing in some of their work. alot of interesting points have been brought up. but i have to disagree with some of the comments posted here. i think submethod is a great combination of imagery, sound and text. this site eludes to the designers form of expression. some of the thoughts might be obvious but i find this site refreshing in its explaination and design overall. for those who haven't already - i would read their mission statement and check out the artists who designed the site. like i said i have to disagree, alot of these sites have made thier mark in the flash design arena. harsh indeed not to say they are not artists....'agree to disagree'. :)Quote:
Originally posted by Xerobot
much in the fashion as the two sites Mr. 8minus8 = ZERO posted. Anyway cheers and jeers all around.
[Edited by 8minus8 on 01-21-2001 at 02:44 PM]
I have to say I agree w/8minus8... the site is experimental in nature, and the artists/designers (let's not debate the difference - there is such a fine line which blurs the closer you inspect it) experimented not only with fun/interesting ways to present info (derivative only if they had not taken it farther), but w/the content itself. There is some beautiful imagery, and statement that goes beyond 'I know how to use Flash 5'. Nice audio, too.
-S
The line between design and art is only blurry from designers' side.
Artists see it very clearly.
enlighten us artist... where is your homepage link anyway?Quote:
Originally posted by Taiyo
The line between design and art is only blurry from designers' side.
Artists see it very clearly.
As both an artist and designer, I can say that if you do both art and design, the line is quite blurred -- each endeavor influences the other.
If you are looking for more concrete evidence that art and design are kissing cousins: Both art and design attempt to communicate a message to the viewer. Neither the artist nor the designer (if they have integrity) attempt to make something beautiful which isn't, or to make the ugliness of the world beautiful -- both are purveyors of truth. (When money becomes part of the equation, both the designer and artist might abandon this role... but that is not the fault of art or design).
The common ground of the artist and designer is vast -- the differences just lip service to the egos of a few.
IMHO
-S
defining the term "art" is mad redundant.
one could sprawl on to discuss if there is a difference between art and science and what an artist's purpose should be, blah blah blah. and that's why it's a fun subject!
i am an artist because i put an emphasis on expressing myself and communicating in a manner that stimulates [subjective] one or more of the senses. while i feel that art [and life] is about becoming and not about achieving, i also recognize that i'm completely dumb and i have no effect on anything of any major significance.
pshhh|pal|www.dumb-dumb.com
Hi 8-8, thanks for those links, really enjoyed them.Quote:
Originally posted by 8minus8
hey creep. (that sounds bad, i mean it in a nice way :D)
that's definitely a great site. great sound and i always enjoy experimental flash. for future reference it helps to post the url in the subject of the thread. helps with the feedback.
thanks for the link.
check out:
http://www.designgraphik.com/
http://www.vir2l.com/
i believe some of the designers from submethod work for vir2l. :)
I liked the links aswell - donka shey
If i were to say that most web programmers call themselves graphic designers this would probally be true? however that would be stereotyping. and that is not the case.
Taiyo i really disagree with you. you sound jaded. however if you can enlighten me go for it.
"They should have stopped speaking at the first page because obviously they are just another bunch of designers who try to pass themselves off as artists."
Please explain this line to me because I don't know where it is.
I'm really confused what is the line.
Hubie
Guess what guys?? You're proving this site has achieved its goal!! To provoke discussion, disagreement, controversy... and thought.
Yes, any site that can make a viewer think a little has done a great job, whether you like the design and what it says or not. This is a very effecting site (like that word?! :)). Plus, I love it. Hopefully my site coming soon will be of a similar ilk - a lot different from the sites I do on a professional basis.
As regards the artist v designer issue briefly mentioned...
Well, it isn't just a black and white issue, is it? Saying that though, unfortunately most of us here are designers, because we have to bend to the will of the client, whether it be over issues as simple as corporate colours. To be an artist is to have complete freedom of expression. Doesn't happen much when money's involved.
Cheers
Dave
Good things about the site:
- Cool background on the opening page
Bad things about the site:
- Too hard to navigate
- Too hard to read anything
- Takes up to much space vertically and I don't like scrolling
- Doesn't really make sense
Looks good but I don't understand it.
AGREE!
Quote:
Originally posted by a_slosh
Good things about the site:
- Cool background on the opening page
Bad things about the site:
- Too hard to navigate
- Too hard to read anything
- Takes up to much space vertically and I don't like scrolling
- Doesn't really make sense
Looks good but I don't understand it.
I was checking out the version 1 of this site and there is the option for gallery, there they have this bar sqares that repeats the path you took hilight the squares. how is this possible! VERY VERY VERY Cool!
I'd say the buttons are movie clips. When they're clicked, not only do they open the relevant project but the movie clip in which they're in advances forward to a new frame with the button in it's (visited) colour - just a guess.Quote:
Originally posted by Damicci
I was checking out the version 1 of this site and there is the option for gallery, there they have this bar sqares that repeats the path you took hilight the squares. how is this possible! VERY VERY VERY Cool!
As most people said, yeah the front page looks good, but once you are in their samples, the text is to fast, although I do appreciate the good quality graphics.
Not really a reply but a question,
In site's like http://www.vir2l.com/
how do they make the cool backround pics?
if you click enter no fullscreen the backround pic is awsome and i was wondering if anyone knew what program was used to make something like that or similiar, thanx
KhazzaM
what type of paint do you eat?
nice split screen effect throughout the site.
The text you call "to fast" is obviously not meant to be read easily. I'd put it down to artistic typography, there are some beautiful examples of it there.Quote:
Originally posted by cheif
As most people said, yeah the front page looks good, but once you are in their samples, the text is to fast, although I do appreciate the good quality graphics.
Dagrom - Non toxic of course. Slick bubbles by the way, kudos.
man some of you guys are looking to deep into the site. Mike Young is one of the founders of this I think. Check out his site too http://www.designgraphik.com
I think this site is really creative and I know they haven't updated it lately but just enjoy it cause i doubt they care if you rip on it anyways
just my opinion
i dont know what you guys are talking about. submethod has always been a source of inspiration for me. i thouroughly appreciate their style and use of motion and sound. its visual poetry that carries a message, not nessesarily a happy message but they have something to say and this is their way of expressing it. brilliant. but hey, thats my personal opinion, others obviosly dissagree or dont know art when they see it.
the toughest art to spot is when there is none. Lets call this VOID ART. Cheers! Jeers!Quote:
Originally posted by evade
others obviosly dissagree or dont know art when they see it.
OK. There is a discussion about vir2l crew. Are they artists or just a bunch of pseudo-hyper-cyber-intellectualls? Well, I have to say that their style is graphicly very atractiv, it inspired me a lot in my work with this wicky new tool(Flash) and i really have all the respect for people who invest so much time in learning this whole stuff, wich is really not simple!
But then again, i have to speak as someone educated in classic- and new Art: having know-how with some programing is far away from being an artist. I don't see myself as an artist yet, even though I had 10 years of artistic education. And I never try to force people to think of me as an artist, wich couldn't be said about the vir2l-s. Trying to give some banal message of "no message" is something people did in early 20-ies of this century. Also, the thing about design; it's new for internet but it's Jurassic Park comparing to Video & Filmdesign(not to mention painting). All the excitment about some flash animations is absurd; such ani's exist already on TV for a long time(think of comercialls).
As I mentioned before, they truly are great designers. If they are artists too, then I have to get some other input from their webs sites.
Discussion is open!
So right about art and design. Yes everything has been around before, long before. Such as Ancient Greeks purposely making the acropolis lopsided so it would appear visually correct. That's some major design! The thing that everyone posting forgets is the majority of the ppl making flash sites haven't taken any formal training on art or design. They dont know what you're talking about when you quote some bohemian nihilist-artist movement from 1920 or some 1800s French painting technique. You think some 14 year old kid is in a drafting class? Get real. S/He saw a cool effect on a web site and made his own. Plus he's at the mercy of the software. "Looks cool." "Yeah, I used a plug in."Quote:
Also, the thing about design; it's new for internet but it's Jurassic Park comparing to Video & Filmdesign(not to mention painting). [/B]
The other concept ppl take for granted is that print designs = web designs. They dont. While there is many universal parallels such as color, shape use of space et al, there are many things that go far beyond print . . . like different size monitors and resolutions. Print is static, it doesn't resize when you take it to grandma's house. How about color? How many ppl calibrate their monitor's color? Or how about links? Ever read a paper with navigation? Its called numbers and you dont find web pages numbered unless its in a data base query.
Flash is great because it adds life and movement to art. And its offordable so the amount of artist putting out their work (sites, graphics, photos, movies, games etc) on flash sites means we dont have to wait for the next Lucas-Speilberg movie to see a dinasaur morph into Babe the talking pig. OK now lets get out there an hit some balls!
Nice site man, but what does it do?
-vectorkid
Well, I have to say that i didn't think that way till You wrote it. Yes, you're wright about Flash as medium. But i wasn't talking about the power of flash but about people of vir2l. And it's not only them specifically. There's lot of things wich are sold as art in internet but if you take a look at this "art", you'll only find some well-skilled programmers. "vir2l" is definetily the best looking site i've seen because it's breaking those pragmatic rules of the custom and i supprot such things. But it's content is unfortunatly week! And i'm almost sure none of those guys made his/her work for some kid, who says: "Wow, cool effect!". They want to break conventionall rules and that's great! That's why i want to stimulate some people to create some strong-content-sites. I will definetily give a try to do it.
Cheers,
Khan
well conceptually what is the difference between flash today and computer art from the 60s? currently i'm in a mfa program in computer graphics. some of the training i have been receiving as of late is from the origination of programming to create the visual. my background is from photography so you can say i've taken a conceptual leap. what's the difference between performance art, installation work, and interactive flash design? yes they all grasp a different form and level of conceptual work. but the root of it is derived from interactivity. this is actually what my work has been dealing with for the last 2 years. the dynamic between user and medium. the role each party plays. personally i'm not trying to rely on the medium, i'm trying to bring my history of art and photography background into my current work. the computer art world right now is trying defend itself as a valid medium of the art world. photography struggled through that for almost 50 years. so you can say that digital art has a ways to go. photography has had to validate itself from the candid to the conceptual print. anyone can make/take a photograph, right? well i guess the same could be said about flash. there will be a line drawn eventually. i believe it currently is being drawn - by designers today that are using the program flash as their expressive medium; to manipulate flash to their conceptual eye.
"what's the difference between performance art, installation work, and interactive flash design?"
The main difference (wich I'm trying to explain all the time) is that design uses the methods & elements of the art and is not the art itself. Or let's put it tis way:
Flash is often used as a decoration- and not as an artistic tool, wich is really petty when you think of it's medial power.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe i haven't seen enough sites yet. Or maybe there isn't any real art in Flash yet. If so, let's make it! I'm ready to make something with people from our community. Let's put some ideas on the table and let's do something really good.
What do You(all) think?
Khan
hey khan. :)
i totally agree with you. my post wasn't necessarily directed to you but more of a statement to the public. being a photographer i've had to defend my medium to artists from other mediums. flash is one of the mediums i use to produce my work so i feel like i should defend it sometimes. i agree with you that most of the flash out there is used more as a surface area. i hope to accomplish more of a conceptual level in my work. i guess i'll have to wait and see how the public views it. i'm always into collaborations. :)
sometimes I wonder if all the guys that design those site's are depressed or something, in any case they are the best at what they do :)