Community or Just A Computer

[agent vivid]

having just read through mark's section of the newsletter, i was wondering what everyone else had to think about the doctor's sentiments on community... here's the excerpt:
=============

A good friend of mine was in town, a doctor with more then just one thoughtful
insight, so he scratched together a little paragraph for me to include, it's below!
Let him know what you think!

Community or Just A Computer

It seems we are all yearning for a sense of community
today. Never before have we been more distant from the
people we pass on the street, or the neighbours with
whom we share a street or apartment block. The forces
of the market and its worship of the individual have
left many of us alienated and disconnected. In short,
we are lonelier than we have ever been.

Perhaps this helps the economy. When we don.t have the
security of an extended family or tight community, it
is easier to search for security via material goods.
Matching curtains can offer some people a hope that a
friendly neighbour may have once fulfilled. It is much
easier to sell the trendy car to an insecure
population. The subtler forces of capitalism are to
weaken ties between people, in favour of greater
efficiency and productivity.

It is no accident that the internet has surfaced to
attempt to fill some of this gap. Instead of warm
bodies brushing against each other, it is raw
consciousness that mingles on wires dressed
alternately in digital and analog.

But is it a poor substitute? Can it really provide a
genuine sense of belonging? Or does it just underline
our increasingly mechanical natures, where humans
become more like the machines we are continually tied
to? Tanny Ahmed, tahmed88@yahoo.com.au
============

i personally agree that we are more isolated than ever before... i'm a bit unsure as to how computers affect the situation...

on one side, i think about communities like this and recognize that we ARE a good community... in fact, we're a wonderful community that is unlike anything else on the net...

on the other side, this exact same place has taught me that many people out there in the world just want to be selfish, and computers do nothing but add fuel to their fire (i.e. last night's episode with the flamer .::IGI::.solidSNAKE)

so what are your thoughts?

[aversion]

ahh the modern world, full of scary things going by very fast... or is it just me?

i don't think this is a matter of the internet community replacing the 'local' community, it is an expansion, it is something that allows us to focus on a community of like-minded people with core interests. I don't think we would be in good shape if we ignored our habitual community but a place like this allows us to explore our interests in a way just not possible before.

i like to think of e-bay as a great example of what the internet has to offer people looking for a sense of solidarity they just can't find in their local community. Think about all the people out there who collect all these unusual things, people who collect french revolution era hot water bottles for example.. imagine how different it is now for those people, how they have gone from being isolated individuals to part of a community across the world. They weren't necessarily lonely people before but their hobbies would be private, maybe a few newsletters a year from some hot water bottle association.. now they are in daily contact with like minded people all over the world.

i don't blame the diminishing role of the local community on computers either, not that the good doctor seems to be, but the 'community' has been less and less important as our standard of living crossed that threshold where an individual could look after himself, afford to travel freely, etc.

if anything, i think communities like this are bringing back values that belong to a by-gone era in a thoroughly modern way.

with the age of information well underway it is becoming harder and harder to have a well rounded grip on what's going on, everyone talks about filtering information, so we only deal with what is relevant or interesting to us because there is too much of it. Internet communities foster this attitude by allowing us to communicate with people within our 'sphere' of interest, thus avoiding those tiresome encounters with 'irrelevant' people...

is the weight of information going to crush the human experience? is filtering information another way for us to avoid the unknown, the accidental discoveries that delight and propel us in new, unforeseen directions? I guess that's another subject...

[kaska]

there can be no question that there indeed exist online "communities", even in the most basic sense of the word. And keep in mind, that these are not just things like our beloved FK, but also often present a chance for those people living outside of their original community to keep in touch with known values, language, religions, and just general news... something that is becomming more and more necessary in our "global village"

And just like all communities, you will have your village idiots, your sages, those that you would like to pretend don't exist, and those that you wish would appear out in public more often... but just because you're not in physical proximity to a person doesn't make them less human.

(Indeed, some should be thankful that they're out of whapping range sometimes! )


What interests me even more, though, is not whether or not this community exists, but what effect it has on its members?

Who do you become when you join a cyber community? more "you", less "you"... are you a different person here than when you unplug yourself from the screen?
(Maybe you'd fall in love with markp if you met OFFLINE ?!)

Started writing the intro to a thesis on this very topic (community and culture online, not markp's love life)... Lemme know if anyone wants to proof it, and I'll give the URL.

your new neighbour,
-Kaska

[capty99]

very nice quote. i agree with parts and parts i may not. i think technology is connecting people in a way that never before could have been reached. the internet, television and whatever else you would like to use are all a way for us to get things out. some, may be alienated because of this if they seem 2 stay secluded in their own cubby's w/ their tvs and computers (like some of us here) but im sure that some of you guys , and me, rave about how were computer junkies when we really do go out and play football w/ our friends and stuff. i mean, it may sometimes seem that were in more, but were also in even more constant contact. i know that all the time im connected to something bigger and that part of the quote is incredibly true, but i also feel that in the outside world. im connected w/ the "non-techies" also and believe i am staying on a middle road. well , anyways, i gtg. and thats all i got to say about that.

[evan224]

There is no doubt that ours is a world of alienation, and that the internet increases that lonliness. The i-revolution has meant that people can live in complete seclusion without any interaction with the real world. But the up side to this is the increase in possabilities for those waiting and willing to grasp them. Communication has become the world's currency. If you can provide more effective and efficient communication in the modern world, your's will not be a poor lonliness. It is a mind blowing dichotomy that advancements in communications can be the cause of greater desolation to the detriment of society and the individual.

E.

[agent vivid]

Originally posted by aversion
anything, i think communities like this are bringing back values that belong to a by-gone era in a thoroughly modern way.

great thoughts, aversion

it's interesting to think how different the value set is from 50 years ago compared to today...

i like to think that belonging to FK has made me a better person... and i think that many other members would agree that FK has changed their lives in some way... usually for the better

above all else, i've learned that i'm not alone and that, regardless of where other folks may live or what language they natively speak, they STILL share many of the same hopes, dreams, and fears that i do... and they encounter many of the same situations that i do, albeit in a different physical place

-- which is really nice, imho, because i understand that i can come in here and share my situations, thoughts, and emotions and know that others will be able to speak from a common ground

[superchump]

This is such an intersting topic.. and kaska I'd really like to read your thoughts on this as it is something I'm very interested in. I think there are a wide range of issues which have influenced the way society interacts today. People have a desire to feel comfortable, once you approcah new people it puts you in an uncomfortable position. From the safety of your computer you are able to make contact from a distant and comfortable position and interact with people whom have a common interest which once again is a comfort zone. The world has changed so dramatically in the past 50 years and the current level of community interaction can not be compared, people have new ways of interacting and collecting information, but when you are able to go directly to a source where you know your interests will be discussed, why not.

[D4Demon]

why are all these replies so long
i suffer from atd and cannot read more than two lines
too many already

[aversion]

Originally posted by D4Demon
why are all these replies so long
i suffer from atd and cannot read more than two lines
too many already

just read two at a time then

[kaska]

For D:
1) communities = good
2) internet = communities
3) therefore, internet = good

and for chump, I've got the paper at http://briefcase.yahoo.com/kasienko

(keep in mind, this is just a rough draft- I'll let you know if it ever gets finished!)

-Kaska

[JabezStone]

I think that sometimes we can get so wrapped up in the "onlin" community that we neglect the real, flesh and blood commuity... often to our own hurt. In the Boardroom forum, there was a discussion titled "how many of you have spouses who think you spend way too much time on your computer?" It was shocking how many people would rather be stuck in their office chair in fron of a 19" monitor than on the floor playing with their kids. This was a response I made...

Our priorities can get so screwed up that we place superficial things like work and "Flash" (and any other escape) before things that should really matter the most.

When our children are begging us to get off the computer to play with them... there's a problem. When our wife/girlfriend is begging for a little time to share because we're more interested in analog and digital than emotion and conversation, there's a problem.

The fact is, when the power goes out in your office, the computer changes to a lifeless box of plastic and metal, the Information Superhighway is nothing but a dead-end dirt trail and what was once a mode of escaping reality is instantly transformed back into a place where people breath, bleed, feel emotion and show affection... a place that too many people forget about nowadays.

If someone feels like you're spending too much time on your computer, take a hint. Reach down and push in that little power button and give your kids a hug. Give your wife a kiss.

I would much rather be a poor man with a healthy, loving relationship than a guy who's struggling to keep everything together and can't be happy about anything else but a motion tween or actionscript.

I'm going home now. I really miss my wife and little girl.