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Thread: To all newbies: forget flash, swish 2 is on the way

  1. #21
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    Originally posted by Ian424
    Ok.. i hate to tell u swish and probably everything that follows it can be remade in flash with a little scripting.

    Why would you remake it in flash with scripting when you could do it with out?

    Flash will still have scripting, which in 5 and up will probably count for what makes most sites work well.. swish wont have advanced scripting..

    Where did you get the info that Swish won't have advanced scripting.
    Maybe not in V2, but there are sure to be more versions.
    The list of new features from version 1 to 2 is amazing..
    The makers have a habit of putting in the odd surprise or two!...they origenally said that the 'tell Target' command won't appear in swish 2....low and behold...what do we get...tell target about a month ago in an alpha version along with masking.

    does swish export/import the same formats flash can? I doubt it highly.

    Please list the formats you're interested in..
    you may be surprised at what it can handle.

    Swish may be good for you to think you are doing something good, but it will not replace flash. Flash is still the leader in flash content for obvious reasons. The price is worth it if you plan to use it professionally, if you are trying to learn, you can get it for a little more than Swish at colleges.

    True, it will never replace flash. Flash will always be one step ahead....but at a high price. I have to ask myself can I justify the cost of flash when I can make a site with swish which cost a fraction of the cost of flash.
    I'm sure that David Michie, Roger Onslow & Hung-Hsin Chang (Swish Developers) will constantly bring in new features in swish..including some that are not in flash...only time will tell.

    Personally...I'll make do with swish and wait for the new versions..I have to ask myself do I need the features in flash that swish can't handle...and more importantly..am I prepared to spend the extra money on those features. In my case the answer (Surprise, surpise) is no. But that is just my opinion.
    Here is a list of the new features in SWiSH V2.0
    ------------------------------------------------
    What's New in Swish 2.0

    WYSIWYG display.

    SWiSH now displays objects exactly as they appear in the Flash Player. i.e. Text, graphics and images (including transparent images) are all rendered exactly as they appear in the Flash Player.

    Multiple-selection and grouping.
    Multiple objects can be selected using Shift+click and Control+click. These objects can then be grouped. Objects within a group can be selected (using Ctrl+Shift+Click or the Outline panel) and edited without breaking apart the group. Also, multiple effects and multiple actions can be selected.

    Complex Effects can be applied to any group of objects.
    Complex effects (such as explode, wave, squeeze) can be applied to any group of objects. For example, a group consisting of a Bezier shape, a text object and an image object can be "exploded"

    Resizing Handles.
    Object(s) can be resized (both uniformly and asymmetrically), rotated and skewed using resizing handles. You can also quickly rotate or flip and object using the commands on the modify menu.

    Reshaping Handles.
    Vector object(s) can be reshaped by add or removing corners, changing curvature of edges, and by dragging corners and edges using the reshaping handles.

    Visual Editing of Gradient Fills.
    You can visually edit gradient fills using resizing handles directly on the layout view.

    New user-interface.
    The Swish 2 user-interface consists of a collection of "panels". Each panel displays a different view of the Swish movie or properties of the selected object. Panels include: Layout, Outline, Timeline, Movie, Scene, Shape, Text, Image, Transform, Mixer, Actions, Content, Export and Html. Panels can be floating or docked and can be grouped together in a tabbed panel. Swish 2 also supports floating or docked toolbars. Both toolbars and menus are configurable by the user, and keyboard shortcut keys can be assigned for any menu command.

    Multiple document support.
    Swish 2 can have multiple swish documents open at the same time, each showing a different SWiSH document. You can choose whether to open document in the same window or in a new window.

    Scrollable/Zoomable Layout view.
    The layout view can be zoomed using zoom commands or the Zoom Tool. The layout can also be scrolled using scrollbars or the Pan Tool. The layout also includes an optional ruler and grid lines.

    Drawing Tools.
    Swish 2 includes tools for creating Lines, Rectangles, Ellipses, and Bezier shapes. Shapes can be open or filled. Both the outline and fill color can be partially transparent. Shapes can be filled with a flat color, a linear or radial gradient, or a clipped or tiled image.

    Four state (rollover) buttons.
    A button object has four states: Up, over, down and hit. When the movie is playing the over state is displayed when the mouse pointer is over the button, and the down state is displayed if the mouse is pressed inside the button, otherwise the up state is displayed. The hit state is never displayed while the movie is playing. Each button state is a special type of group and can contain any number of any type of object (including sprites, but not another button). The hit state can contain only one graphic object which defines what is inside, and what is outside the button. The 'eye' icon in the outline view can be used to display just the selected button state or all states at the same time.

    Sprite objects (Movie clips).
    A sprite is a movie within a movie. A sprite has its own timeline that plays independently of the main timeline. A sprite can contain any kind of object including another sprite. A sprite can also contain actions but these can apply only to itself, not other sprites or the main timeline. A sprite will always loop unless a stop action is inserted. A sprite always has a transparent background indicated by a checkerboard pattern.

    Import vector artwork and sprites.
    Swish 2 can import WMF, EMF, and SWF files as static vector artwork. The artwork is imported as a group which can then have a complex effect applied to it. For example, you can import a logo and explode it. SWF files and animated GIFs with more than one frame can be imported as a sprite.

    Frame Preview Mode and Motion Paths.
    Preview Frame mode previews how the movie will look at the current frame. If the current frame is a "keyframe" the resizing handles can be used to visually position/scale/rotate the object at that frame. Swish automatically "tweens" (interpolates) between the keyframes. In addition, a "motion path" is displayed which indicates the movement of the selected object over time. The motion path can have both sharp corners or smooth curves. While in Frame Preview Mode a double-click on the Layout window will add a new keyframe to the motion path. Or you can use the motion path tools to quickly draw a path.

    Playback controls.
    Swish 2 includes Play Movie, Play Scene and Play Effect commands. In Frame Preview mode there are commands to step thru the movie frame-by-frame (forward and backwards), rewind to start and cue to end. The playback head can also be dragged forwards and backwards to preview the animation.

    Make changes while movie is playing.
    Scenes, objects and effects can be modified on-the-fly while the movie is playing. You can also make changes while editing effect settings.

    SWF file size optimization.
    SWF export code now reuses font and shape definitions more efficiently, and optimizes character glyphs so they are not defined more than once in the SWF file.

    Insert/delete frames in the timeline.
    F5 inserts a frame at the current frame. Shift+F5 deletes the current frame.

    Frame labels.
    Any frame can be given a label and used as a target for Goto Frame actions.

    Alignment Grid.
    Any handle or alignment point (x) snaps to the alignment grid. Grid color and spacing are configurable.

    Snap-to-Object-Handles Mode.
    Any handle or alignment point (x) snaps any handle or alignment point of neighouring objects. This allows easy alignment of objects.

    Timeline enhancements.
    All effects now include a keyframe mark that can be activated for visual editing with a single click. The keyframe can also be dragged forward or backward and the durations of adjacent effects are adjusted automatically. Icons are used to differentiate actions, and single frame effects such as Place and Remove. The timeline also indicates the true length of the scene, and shows the frames where objects are actually visible. i.e. if the object is not visible, the frames are dimmed. The ruler of the timeline indicates actual time by special marks every second of time based on the frame rate. You can also change the scale of the timeline to fit more or less frames across, and more or less rows.

    Background color on a per-scene basis.
    The background color can be specified for each scene. If no color is specified, or the scene background is 100% transparent, the movie background is used.

    More effect options.
    All effects have easing controls to accelerate/decelerate the object at the start and end of the effect. Most effects now include cascading options, where the cascade can be in or out from the center, as well as forward and backward and can be interleaved. You can also specify cascading by delay, duration or overlap. The order of cascade can be characters by character, by x-position or by y-position . Effects such as squeeze, alternate, wave have many more options.

    Color transforms for all effects.
    All effects now include a 'color transform'. This allows the color of object to change over the course of the effect.

    Save/Load effect settings.
    Effect settings can be saved for re-use in the same movie or other movies. For example, save explode settings under the name "Slow explode with fade and zero gravity"

    New color picker.
    Vastly improved color picker displays a much larger range of web-safe colours. Alpha value can also be specified.

    FSCommand action for calling JavaScript.
    The FS command can be used to call a scripting language in the host application (typically JavaScript in a browser).

    Tell Target action for interactivity.
    Sprites and and main movie can contorl on another using the Tell Target action.
    Convert to Button.
    Any object (or group of objects) can be converted to a button. The object is duplicated in the three visible states and the bounding rectangle is inserted in the hit state.

    Convert to Sprite.
    Any object can be moved into its own sprite where effects can applied independently of the main time line.

    Group as Sprite.
    If any selected objects already have effects applied, these effects can be preserved by grouping the objects as a sprite.

    Convert Text to Shape or Letters.
    A text object can be broken apart and converted to a group of shapes. Complex effects applied to the text object are preserved. You can also convert to a group of letters. Each letter can then have its own settings for font and so on.

    Rename objects in Outline panel.
    Objects and Scenes can be renamed by clicking on the object name in the outline view.

    Object thumbnails in Outline, Timeline and Text panels.
    These panels can optionally show a thumbnail of image objects and actual font and color of text objects.

    Keyboard shortcuts for object-reordering.
    Pressing Ctrl+arrow keys in the Outline, Timeline or Layout panels move objects up and down the stacking order. You can also drag selected object up and down in the Outline and Timeline panels to reorder them.

    New effects
    Snake effect, Repeat frames, and Transform characters.

    Envelope (volume) control for play sound action.
    In this version envelope control is limited to simple fades. No envelope editor (yet).



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The following restrictions apply to Swish 2.0 Beta 1:
    No help file or tutorials.
    Export to SWF, Test in browser or player, and Publish HTML have been disabled.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [/B]

    Regards

    Rich...

  2. #22
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    I`ve got to be honest and say that I use SWiSH because MM Flash 5 was designed so that only people from the planet zargos could understand it. If I did understand the weird terminology like Stage, Instance and Symbol in MM Flash I would never need to look for an alternative. The reality is that MM Flash is not user-friendly, it is deliberately different and confusing from all other programs so that MM WANT to pull you in to their way of thinking and keep you as a life-long customer never using anything but MM products. I don`t buy it Macromedia!

    Don`t get sucked-in .. be honest and admit that MM Flash is over-complicated .. refuse to use MM Flash until they release a user-friendly version!

  3. #23
    Ian424
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    if you cant understand what a stage, symbol, or instance is, then go ahead, use swish.

    swish may have new features that make things easier, but my point is most people who have knowledge of scripting and graphic design can do things that are better. its satisfying to do something and say 'i created that from scratch', especially if it was something hard to do.

  4. #24
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    Smile Is that correct only 30$

    Why such a difference in price if it's nearly the same? How can they do it?

  5. #25
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    Thumbs up

    I have been using swish v 1.51 for some months now and I downloaded version 2.0 for review. It's cool. You can not do all the actionscripts that flash can, but you can still attach javascript to objects if you want. If you toy around A LOT with it and combine it with flash, you'll save a lot of time. It's really helped me to design stuff that otherwise would have cost me hours in flash.
    And yes, how about that price? What's the catch? will I have to donate a bodypart later?

    By the way, is there a way for swish-users to create new extensions for swish, like macromedia does with flash?

  6. #26
    Retired SCORM Guru PAlexC's Avatar
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    Re: Is that correct only 30$

    Originally posted by PLUMMER
    Why such a difference in price if it's nearly the same? How can they do it?
    - Flash 5 is more powerful

    - How long after Flash 5 did Swish 2 come out? By the time Swish catches up feature-wise, there will be newer features in Flash. StiffTools can never make Flash do new things, only simplify some of it and automate some normally time-consuming tasks (like text effects.)

    As long as Macromedia publishes the plug-in, they hold the keys. This isn't to belittle Swish, but it is definately not a replacement for Flash.

  7. #27
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    Flash 5 is more powerful?

    Flash 5 doesn't have the effects like SWISH does and so has no real 'power' in this area. Instead one has to create effects by hand or write action-script. The scripting lanugage, of course, is powerful, but as for effects themselves, Flash has none.

    On the other hand, Flash 5 has much more power in terms of form creation (because SWiSH doesn't yet have variables), shape tweening (another not-yet), and database support.

    If you need the things the only Flash 5 does, then obsiously Flash 5 is the (only) choice. If the things you need do NOT involve these (and that still leaves a LOT of scope), then there is no real reason to prefer Flash of SWiSH, when SWiSH has better ease of use.

    WRT the format, SWiSH is indeed still improving to handle more of the SWF format. The only thing Flash 5 added to the SWF format was more scripting byte-code commands (so it could support action-script).

    I don't thing that MM ownership of SWF format is going to mean that it will always be huge leaps and bounds ahead of SWiSH's support of it.

    SWiSH is very quickly (seeing it started later than Flash) catching up with Flash 4 functionality. Once we have variables and shape tweening (which shouldn't be long) it will not take much more to support the Flash 5 action-scripting features.

    Yes .. it will take a while to catch up, and certainly Flash will not be stnading still. But that does not mean SWiSH is not serious and useful tool. Just because Flash 5 came out, that didn't mean one could suddenly say that Flash 4 was never useful nor capable of serious work.

    Basically, it comes down to a price/performance/feature comparisons. And is SWiSH does all you need, it is certainly worth considering (especially as it is generally easier to use). If SWiSH does NOT have the features you need, then go for Flash. No SWiSH user (or SWiSH themselves) would criticse anyone who needed Flash's features from using it. No SWiSH users will say Flash isn't a powerful tool (although we would humbly suggest that it is not as easy to use as it could be). Flash users do tend to be a bit over-critical of SWiSH .. maybe they don't like the idea that there is a $30 product that does much of what the product they paid a large amount of money for and invested a lot of time in mastering does?

  8. #28
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    u say Flash is Confusing? not user freindly??? i dont believe it!!!! its the easiset of all softwares!!! i dont know why u find it difficult!! but still...i dont go in for the fact that "SWISH" will replace FLASH!!! no! not under any cricumstances!!!!
    cheers!

  9. #29
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    Originally posted by mustafapracha
    FlashGit
    u say Flash is Confusing? not user freindly??? i dont believe it!!!! its the easiset of all softwares!!! i dont know why u find it difficult!!
    cheers!
    you obviously haven't doewnloaded and played with the demo of swish if you think that Flash is "the easiest of all softwares".
    I also don't think that Swish will replace Flash. Read the post from Roger Onslow (one of swish creators), he doesn't think that swish will replace flash either.
    david p.

  10. #30
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    Originally posted by mustafapracha
    FlashGit
    u say Flash is Confusing? not user freindly??? i dont believe it!!!! its the easiset of all softwares!!! i dont know why u find it difficult!! but still...i dont go in for the fact that "SWISH" will replace FLASH!!! no! not under any cricumstances!!!!
    cheers!
    I've used a lot of software .. Flash is certainly not very intuitive. There is no bias in this .. when I first applied to work for SWiSH the job description said familiarity with flash would be an advantage. So I downloaded the trial to check it out. It was ery difficult to follow. For example, I found I could do a motion path if I followed the tutotial step by step .. but I had to do it several times to get it right .. and when I came back to try it again a few days later, I ahd to take the tutorial again.

    It may be 'easy' to do things, but it is not easy to work out how to do them or remember how tings are done becaue they either involve (usualy a number of) non-obvious steps.

    Sure .. use Flash for a few months everyday, and you'll get used to it and be able to do what you want. Loose the use of your legs, and you'll get used to that to, but that doesn't mean its easy or a pleasant experience

    Flash users always seem so defensive of the product from anything that even hints at being a competitor. They cannot stand LiveMotion, degrade SWiSH at every opportunity. Its quite sad really.

    The keep saying "what can I do in SWiSH that I cannot do in Flash" and the answer is (of course) nothing. SWiSH has never claimed to do more than Flash, nor to do everything that Flash does. But what it does do, it makes it easier and more obvious.

    If you're happy with Flash, and have put the resources into buying it and learning it, then good for you. But please don't get putting other products down for incorrect reasons.

  11. #31
    Ian424
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    Okay, swish may be good to do some things faster, but I need Flash's scripting and movie clip structuring.
    If I was just learning flash from the beginning, swish would probably be a good option, but since I am familiar with flash now and know enough to get into some more advanced scripting, I'll stick with flash.

  12. #32
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    Intuitiveness

    Most old-school Director folks I know picked up Flash in about a day. Depends on your background. The most confusing thing to me was just telling the movie to stop when I wanted it to stay at a single frame. After years of 'go to the frame' that just seemed wrong.

  13. #33
    Japanese l337 TRJNET's Avatar
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    Smile

    Fast, efficient, reliable and gets the job done = Swish V2

    There will always be argements between Swish and Flash 5 but for now we got to understand that Swish is for work that needs to get done while Flash 5 is for advanced Flash users that have years on their back and that have in this industry for a while now and preferably would rather use flash 5. Personnaly I would rather use Swish 1.51 or later in my own effects, and also the new Betas are going quite well so we'll all be looking forward to that when Swish V2 comes out. Can't wait! Mouse-over effects and the works! I love it, it's just great how Swish can be so easy and fun at the same time while the user-friendlyness using Flash 5 is actually pretty hard.

    While using swish, it only takes minutes to make text effects but when using Flash 5 it could take a while if you don't know what you're doing. Which makes Swish more better in some aspects of user-interface but I you know how to use Flash 5, hell use it !

  14. #34
    Ian424
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    years to learn flash that you can do with swish?

    geez..

  15. #35
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    Ian424....

    i am still with u...


    i should say that its not that "the things u can do in flash can be done in swish".
    this is certainly wrong...the stuff u can make in flash..using all those scripting.....i dont think that u can make that in Swish...ofcourse swish can be used to make some effects faster ......

    and probably people who are new in flash...i wouldnot say that swish is should be learn inchange of Flash!!...Swish can be used as a "Side Dish" and not the "Main Dish"...

    And i dont know why u people seems to think(most of you) that Flash is not user firendly.....??? those small panels are the easiest of all...

    cheers

  16. #36
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    i care to differ.. ive downloaded and tried there trial and still prefer flash

  17. #37
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    FsTheMadMan.......
    yup i am also in the list who care to differ!!!

  18. #38
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    If you prefer Flash (probaly becaues you know it well) then that is great. I certainly don't mind if someone can get there work done more effectively with one tool rather than another. To each there own.

    And, as was said before, we at SWiSH know that it does not do all the Flash does, and don't proprose that (in general) SWiSH can replace Flash .. at $30 I wouldn't think it would.

    If you have need for all Flash's scripting and database access etc, then by all means use Flash and expound how it is good for what you need. But SWiSH certainly has a place for SWF authoring as well.

    It is currently (with the release of V2) just a little behind Flash 4 in terms of SWF support (mostly needs shape tweening and variables) .. but way ahead wrt effects, button creation, etc. It is also behind Flash 5 wrt action scripting.

    But if those features the SWiSH V2 is currently lacking are not required, SWiSH does become a contendor for many people instead of the much more expensive Flash. For those that do need Flash, SWiSH can still be a useful partner program because its text effects etc are easy to use and flexible .. and as both Flash and SWiSH support the Load Movie action, one can mix and match to become more productive.

  19. #39
    Japanese l337 TRJNET's Avatar
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    Smile

    But if those features the SWiSH V2 is currently lacking are not required, SWiSH does become a contendor for many people instead of the much more expensive Flash. For those that do need Flash, SWiSH can still be a useful partner program because its text effects etc are easy to use and flexible .. and as both Flash and SWiSH support the Load Movie action, one can mix and match to become more productive.
    [/B][/QUOTE]

    Very true indeed...Swish has it's ownstyle, while Flash 5 has it's own too. But both are gonna be or actually are in fierce competition which makes all the much better. So we all can expect good things to happen in the SWF business and flash design in general. I also find that Flash 5 is good for very good for detailed back-ground effects which I love a lot and is what Swish lacks, but while Flash 5 is good in that sense, Swish is known more for quick flash creation effentientcy, great in simplicity and is the best in user-friendlyness wise for flash programs wise. And the most easiest by far...
    As far as we all know there are a lot of great flash programs coming out these days, so as it comes to my attention there's this new program that someone on one of my threads
    told me about that's really great when it comes down to the best flash animation program and it's called CHROM-OS which apparently comes from Germany and is in German which is a big problem. So I downloaded it anyways just to check it out and it honeslty looks really good so I sent them an e-mail asking them when they're gonna come out with an english version. So for who-ever checks this site out and likes what they see, please e-mail them asking about the english version. The more the response the more likely they'll make a version for english speaking people. Oh yeah if you check this site be sure to check out their "Galerie" for examples... Well gotta go for now, Cya!!

    http://www.ramraver.com

    P.S. This is just my opinion......
    [Edited by TRJNET on 05-13-2001 at 10:54 PM]

  20. #40
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    The pride you get from building something in Flash is infinately more rewarding than letting Swish do it for you. Plus the little imperfections that come with something created in Flash kinda add to the appeal of it all.

    Swish movies seem, well, plastic and fake in a way.

    Before Swish, Flash movies were a thing of wonder. Now the web's been flooded with 'quick and easy' pieces and it's definately taken that edge off the whole thing.

    What's the point of having designers if a program can do it all for you?



    [edit to change swift to swish ]
    [Edited by Psyduck on 05-15-2001 at 05:39 AM]

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