I am not joking, this is incredible

[theallan]

You really must check this out. It is not a flash site I know, but the DHTML kicks serious ass.

http://www.bratta.com

Allan

[Gambini]

Hmmm....the problem is his best dhtml work just looks like bad flash.....don't get me wrong he's obviously very talented and worked hard but it all seems a little pointless....

What does everyone else think?

[afovar]

It may be incredible dhtml, but the design is pathetically simple, and the colors are mundane. I have to agree that it just looks like a bad flash site and not that great for html either.

I'd rather have an amazing static site that went into greath depth in it's style and layout, and was still great to interact with.

If you wanna check out dhtml, go look at the site, otherwise, I'd pass on this one.

That's it, i'm out.
Andrew

[geoyip]

Agreed Also,

...... with the amount of effort put into the site, might as well do up a static HTML site and spend time learning flash instead .... !!

[gnuwine94]

instead of spending all that time scripting with dhtml.. he should have just went with flash. Besides - I believe netscape 6 is having major problems with dhtml and that's a huge audience he just lost there! Might as well hit up the 90% of browsers that support flash!

[Xerobot]

case and point on DHTML

I wanted to start adding sounds to my html pages with rollovers and such and learned it really wasn't feasible given the size of wavs and the fact that those behaviour effects like in Dreamweaver and Beatnik never even worked. They crashed every browser. I decided flash is it. Until they get Maya up to speed that's the way to go. Samething could be said of that ozone site that uses dhtml to move those layers back and forth. Kind of lame compared to flash.

[aversion]

flash is superior and is at least as widely compatible as dhtml is currently, if not more...

[monkeypants]

I agree that Flash has dHTML beat for animation any day, but if you use the two together you get some pretty interesting results. I'm working on a dHTML version of my site now. The text and images in the small windows will eventually be replaced with Flash content.

http://jcmultimedia.hypermart.net/ht...ml/ltindex.htm

[TheOriginalFlashDavo]

Still can't quite write off those without the Flash plugin. I'm still a little wary of the 90% figure oft quoted by Macromedia and their flunkies.

Also, this Bratta site is over a year old, so don't dis the boy too much. Twelve months ago there were still doubts in certain areas of the web development community that Flash was going to become "it". It's almost there, but not quite.

Sooner the better for me, believe me.

And you will also find that most Flash developers that also know HTML/Javascript so they can combine the two are usually the better Flash developers (and I did say "usually" since there are always exceptions).

Cheers

[Eyenovation]

While granted, this site is nothing all that special relative to what Flash can do, I think its important to recognize the skill and effort involved. Put it this way.. I can drive my car 26 miles a hell of alot faster than I can run it, but I still admire people who run marathons.

I just look at this site as an exploration into multi dimensions of web building. I give it a thumbs up. Just my opinion.

[flipsideguy]

It's no Flash, but it's still pretty clever. I like it!

[alberto sejas]

... this is the wrong place for a non-flash site. By the way, it has enough design errors not to be cool. Do you need help? Start with the typography:

http://www.i-mago.de/Typography.html

Conception and other techniques (colors for example), are easier to learn at the university. Talent is only 1% of the whole work.

[styrix]

Flash is not God's gift to earth. Most designers shun flash, and laugh about sites like FlashKit. Trust me, I visit the boards. While I don't share that opinion, I still feel like some comments are unnecessary. It isn't as much about the effect as it is about the what went into that effect. Anybody with a keyboard and a mouse can make a flash site, but it takes true insight to make something like bratta.

If you still don't agree, visit vitaflo's site: http://www.assembler.org
Pure bliss.

[aversion]

Originally posted by styrix
Flash is not God's gift to earth. Most designers shun flash, and laugh about sites like FlashKit. Trust me, I visit the boards. While I don't share that opinion, I still feel like some comments are unnecessary. It isn't as much about the effect as it is about the what went into that effect. Anybody with a keyboard and a mouse can make a flash site, but it takes true insight to make something like bratta.

If you still don't agree, visit vitaflo's site: http://www.assembler.org
Pure bliss.

yeah, assembler is a cool site but i disagree with your comments, flash is no different to any other application, the results are as good as what you put in it.

flash may be easy to use (not a bad thing!) and the majority of stuff made with it sucks, but so do the majority of all websites. There are truely great and inspirational flash sites out there, once upon a forest for example, there is nothing else like that out there in any format.

i work in webdesign and far from most designers giggling about flash i find it basically splits into two camps.. people who have programmer's backgrounds don't like it, people who have design backgrounds do.. the reasons are obvious.

It's just a different format and it is capable of many things no amount of hard coding can do, one of them being the fact that it will work on 90% of browsers and look exactly the same on all of them!!

there's no point in knocking flash, it's the old adage, garbage in, garbage out. That applies to dhtml as well, it's just that it's a lot harder to learn.

for every inpirational, insightful dhtml site there are flash sites that will match them, and more.


[Edited by aversion on 05-28-2001 at 10:11 PM]

[squink]

Originally posted by styrix
Flash is not God's gift to earth. Most designers shun flash, and laugh about sites like FlashKit. Trust me, I visit the boards. While I don't share that opinion, I still feel like some comments are unnecessary. It isn't as much about the effect as it is about the what went into that effect. Anybody with a keyboard and a mouse can make a flash site, but it takes true insight to make something like bratta.

If you still don't agree, visit vitaflo's site: http://www.assembler.org
Pure bliss.

i'm not even gonna dignify that post with a decent reply.


but I will say one thing, why would you post that at flashkit?

[karnak]

"Anybody with a keyboard and a mouse can make a flash site"
huh?

styrix. come on buddy


and what boards do you visit? I mean, I 'visit other boards' too haha, I mean, I think most people do..



anyway.. "flash vs. dhtml" ranks about as low as a "mac vs. pc" argument, as far as intelligence and maturity goes.

so if this turns into a "flash sux! no it doesn't! yes it does!" thread, it's as good as closed.

have a nice day

[styrix]

Woah folks, don't get me wrong here. I like flash, I feel it adds something that HTML can't. My comments do seem a bit harsh when I look back on them. My point is that Flash may be able to create some eyecandy, yet it takes true skill to be able to recreate some of those effects in DHTML. And as for the other boards, well I've just seen other boards saying "I'll just post my site at FK and get grovled" Probably because Flashkit is the largest, most known site out there. I just have more respect for someone who spends hours creating "art from code" than I do for someone who recreates those effects in 5 minutes. And yes, their are many amazing flash sites out there.

Man do I sound like a jackass
I just couldn't let people insult bratta like that

[dumb-dumb]

it all comes down to content. bratta is kinda lacking, unless you consider the code to be the actual content (which is admissible).

simple|pal|www.dumb-dumb.com

[Jaszpurr]

Originally posted by styrix
My point is that Flash may be able to create some eyecandy, yet it takes true skill to be able to recreate some of those effects in DHTML. <snip> I just have more respect for someone who spends hours creating "art from code" than I do for someone who recreates those effects in 5 minutes. And yes, their are many amazing flash sites out there.

Man do I sound like a jackass
I just couldn't let people insult bratta like that

Art from code...hmmm.... advanced actionscripting???

Really though. HTML, DHTML, XML, ASP, Flash..... there all just tools. Any good designer is gonna get off there ass and learn to program, at least enough to handle the basics and understand what the programmer on their team is doing (just try designing the front end of an ASP site without understanding coding at all).

I really like flash, and I like this board. However, I am tending to find that there are a lot of ppl here that are only interested in the bells and whistles of flash and not how it can be used in combination with other tools to create very nice sites.

HTML pages still have one real advantage over flash... and until that is fixed, many of my clients arent gonna want to move over completely. You can keyword every HTML page and it will be crawled by the search engines. With flash - you get one and only one chance (unless you are using multiple HTML pages for your movies - which is just bad flash design).

OK... nuff said. Wasnt real impressed with bratta from a design standpoint - but admire the work and code that went into it.

Jasz
[Edited by Jaszpurr on 05-29-2001 at 03:06 PM]

[aversion]

Originally posted by styrix
Woah folks, don't get me wrong here. I like flash, I feel it adds something that HTML can't. My comments do seem a bit harsh when I look back on them. My point is that Flash may be able to create some eyecandy, yet it takes true skill to be able to recreate some of those effects in DHTML. And as for the other boards, well I've just seen other boards saying "I'll just post my site at FK and get grovled" Probably because Flashkit is the largest, most known site out there. I just have more respect for someone who spends hours creating "art from code" than I do for someone who recreates those effects in 5 minutes. And yes, their are many amazing flash sites out there.

Man do I sound like a jackass
I just couldn't let people insult bratta like that

i agree that bratta is cool, it's a good resource. Jazzpurr has it right, flash is just a tool like anything else.. you may admire someone that spends hours coding something that you could do in flash in 10 minutes but why bother?? Why not do it flash and then use advanced actionscript to improve your site further with your coding skills, push the boundries??

i know what you mean though.. i think swish was one of the worst things to happen to flash from a design point of view, as soon as anyone could produce text effects so easily (i mean it's a great program) but without regard for design, typography, etc we were swamped with awful intros and 'skipintro.com' type sites. There are certainly rewards to be had from coding at the edge but i think the edge has moved, and it's moved to flash. Actionscript is the future of interactive design on the web, at least for now. Dhtml is too buggy and has all these compatibility problems... guys like josh davis are expressing themselves as artists through the use of hard coded actionscript.

flashkit is huge and lots of people here seem to like the crappy intros and all that which i think is bad about flash design.. look at the de baurer thread in this forum, people fawning over their intro (which doesn't even seem to contain any flash). This isn't where the future of flash is. In my opinion this isn't even good web design, assembler kicks de baurer's ass (and yes i know it isn't spelt properly) but not because it's dhtml, just because it's good, expressive design.

that's all it comes down to... good or bad design