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Thread: Zero Tolerance

  1. #1
    Earlier this week Killabry wrote of his runin with his school's zero tolerance policy and near suspension from school: http://board.flashkit.com/board/show...hreadid=145353

    Killabry doesn't know how fortunate he is to be in one of our more reasonable schools (yes I use the term reasonable loosely).

    Students are getting suspended for even mentioning or drawing guns or knives.

    Today we get a very large list of victoms of zero tolerance across the land:
    http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=95000486

    Interesting.....



  2. #2
    Undercover Puppy
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    Suspension for drawing real guns and knives seems quite alright to me though. But when you're drawing paper guns, you're round the twist though

    Ro

  3. #3
    Retired SCORM Guru PAlexC's Avatar
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    It's because Americans don't prevent problems, they react to them when it's too late.

  4. #4
    It's because the ACLU, which once stood for free speech, has made a mockery of it with the sides it takes.

    They have finally joined to help these students who are run out of school for saying the word gun, but are a little late in rejoining the spirit of the first ammendment.

    e


  5. #5
    Retired SCORM Guru PAlexC's Avatar
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    I agree with the ACLU comment. They're getting a bit out of hand. The reasons kids get disciplined and are given rules is becuase their kids. You're not born knowing that when you do certain things it can cause harm to other people. School isn't just about math and english. It's learning how to function in a society and cultire.

    I'm not saying kids are dumb. I was one once. But I like Henry Rollins's take on it. If you're a kid today, and you've got questions or your upset, who do you have to turn to? Mom and Dad are busy working, and don't want to be strict because they're afraid of being labeled as bad parents, and MTV isn't going to tell you anything worthwhile. (BTW - I thought it stood for Music Television, where's the damn music?) The media is just telling you to buy crap. Man, it's got to suck to be growing up today.

  6. #6
    I read a piece that basically said today's college students are much, much more pleasant than their parents were. However, if you ask them about what is right and what is wrong, they are clueless.

    Hence half the country didn't mind when Mr. Clinton committed sexual harassment upon a 20 year old person working in his office for primarily educational purposes.

    Schools have their priorities backwards, as the zero tolerance incidents all attest.

    e

  7. #7
    Retired *********
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    today at my school, the local law enforcement practiced a (fake) school shooting. They were training their (RAT) rapid resopnse team for the possibility of a future shooting...

    it was very intense...

  8. #8
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    The schools have to do something though- Teachers are getting shot, students are getting shot, and nobody wants to teach becuase they might get shot and aren't paid extra for combat duty... and its not like they are shooting up rat holes where you are likely to get shot for just standing on the corner. Look at where all the shootings have been hapening and you'll see that it is middle class kids with educated parents doing it.

    I don't agree with the schools over reaction though either?

    I think that is why I agree with Metal detectors and armed gaurds at all of the schools entrances. It is a simple way to make sure that kids aren't bringing guns into the school.

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by johnie
    The schools have to do something though- Teachers are getting shot, students are getting shot, and nobody wants to teach becuase they might get shot and aren't paid extra for combat duty... and its not like they are shooting up rat holes where you are likely to get shot for just standing on the corner. Look at where all the shootings have been hapening and you'll see that it is middle class kids with educated parents doing it.

    I don't agree with the schools over reaction though either?

    I think that is why I agree with Metal detectors and armed gaurds at all of the schools entrances. It is a simple way to make sure that kids aren't bringing guns into the school.
    my school was going to have id badges to prevent weapons. the principal gunned it down (figuratively speaking). he said that the teachers already know who the students are, and a studen with a gun would probably not be dumb enough to not wear their badge.

  10. #10
    FK Robot Wrangler

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    Originally posted by PAlexC
    I agree with the ACLU comment. They're getting a bit out of hand. The reasons kids get disciplined and are given rules is becuase their kids. You're not born knowing that when you do certain things it can cause harm to other people. School isn't just about math and english. It's learning how to function in a society and cultire.

    I'm not saying kids are dumb. I was one once. But I like Henry Rollins's take on it. If you're a kid today, and you've got questions or your upset, who do you have to turn to? Mom and Dad are busy working, and don't want to be strict because they're afraid of being labeled as bad parents, and MTV isn't going to tell you anything worthwhile. (BTW - I thought it stood for Music Television, where's the damn music?) The media is just telling you to buy crap. Man, it's got to suck to be growing up today.
    this is going to sound totally pious or something, but the one major social change i have observed in the world that has taken place in the last 15-20 years has been to dissolution of the traditional family unit. divorce has skyrocketed and even if the family isn't split, both parents are pursuing careers (whether it be for money, fame, or survival). lots of kids growing up today don't have the same grounding that, say, our parents did. sure, there's a proliferation of big-screen violence, sexual innuendo in toothpaste commercials , and drugs, but i believe that a person's strength comes from those formative years in a family. when that goes, anything can happen. kids need more attention. i see parents treat their kids as equals and say "baloney"! i'm glad my parents were tough on me. i have a very clear perception of what is right and wrong for it.

    yes, it must truly suck to be a kid today.

  11. #11
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    Republicans think kids are retarded

    Yeah sending the militia into our schools certainly sets the positive message that guns are not the answer. I know, lets stop spending more money on education and spend it on warfare, that will certainly teach our children that violence is not the right thing. All it takes to straighten everything out is a little prayer, right? Our schoolchildren are being treated like hardened criminals before they even graduate. And they will most certainly live up to our expectations.
    People point to the violence on TV and in our music and media as the cause, yet you look at countries like Japan where they have some of the most graphically violent media and yet one of the lowest crime rates, and the argument doesn't hold water. Our teenagers need creative outlets for their anger and frustrations, and trying to put a cork in the bottle is no solution.
    Yet our leaders are willing to ignore all statistical and scientific evidence in favor of a self-righteous pipe dream of a society where everyone eats the same food, drinks the same beer and prays to the same god.
    Our children are having more and more of their rights eroded away by insisting that teenagers be tried as adults, but not giving them any of the rights afforded to adults, such as the right to drink or drive a car.
    The insistence that our own children are stupid and cannot be given the right to think for themselves and must be assumed guilty until proven otherwise only serves to broaden the gap between us.
    In grandpa's time, people might reach the childbearing age at around 18-24, now it might be more like 11-14. Although todays kids may reach maturity at an even younger age, the amount of time expected for them to stay in school has increased. You have to add several years of schooling just to keep up with all the latest technological advances.
    Our leaders continue to brag about how we have the greatest country in the world, but it doesn't take more than a child to see that we have one of the poorest educational systems in the world. With all the B.S, being fed to our children it's no wonder they should feel frustrated and angry.
    I would be angry too, living in a society which force feeds you obvious misinformation and propaganda. We have over extended our children's education budget in favor of lining the pockets of Reagan's fat oil buddies. As if we weren't still bleeding badly from those wounds, now Bush wants to take the knife and plunge it straight up the ass of our kids.
    More prisons, more guns, more cops and, education?? We'll teach em how to pray. That'll just solve everything, won't it? It's that Dirty Harry mentality. If there ain't a great big explosion at the end you just don't feel complete somehow....

  12. #12
    FK Official Postman
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    how do i make sure that i don't blow my top? by playin a few rounds of Halflife and Oni. get rid of the anger by taking it out on some elctrons. games causing violence? i don't think so

  13. #13
    Senior Member
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    Originally posted by jaredigital
    Originally posted by PAlexC
    I agree with the ACLU comment. They're getting a bit out of hand. The reasons kids get disciplined and are given rules is becuase their kids. You're not born knowing that when you do certain things it can cause harm to other people. School isn't just about math and english. It's learning how to function in a society and cultire.

    I'm not saying kids are dumb. I was one once. But I like Henry Rollins's take on it. If you're a kid today, and you've got questions or your upset, who do you have to turn to? Mom and Dad are busy working, and don't want to be strict because they're afraid of being labeled as bad parents, and MTV isn't going to tell you anything worthwhile. (BTW - I thought it stood for Music Television, where's the damn music?) The media is just telling you to buy crap. Man, it's got to suck to be growing up today.
    this is going to sound totally pious or something, but the one major social change i have observed in the world that has taken place in the last 15-20 years has been to dissolution of the traditional family unit. divorce has skyrocketed and even if the family isn't split, both parents are pursuing careers (whether it be for money, fame, or survival). lots of kids growing up today don't have the same grounding that, say, our parents did. sure, there's a proliferation of big-screen violence, sexual innuendo in toothpaste commercials , and drugs, but i believe that a person's strength comes from those formative years in a family. when that goes, anything can happen. kids need more attention. i see parents treat their kids as equals and say "baloney"! i'm glad my parents were tough on me. i have a very clear perception of what is right and wrong for it.

    yes, it must truly suck to be a kid today.

    The thing is that it isn't kids from broken families that are shooting up the place. Almost all of the shootings have been by kids of middle class families with both parents. Look at the Columbine kids. That family looks like June and Ward Cleaver cept the kids shot up the place.


  14. #14

    Re: Republicans think kids are retarded

    Originally posted by thenewrules

    In grandpa's time, people might reach the childbearing age at around 18-24, now it might be more like 11-14. Although todays kids may reach maturity at an even younger age, the amount of time expected for them to stay in school has increased.
    Great Grandpa was likely to leave school after 6th or eighth grade to go to work in a mine or mill to provide for the family. When he got to have kids, he made sure they were protected even through college... you weren't allowed girls in your room, drinking, etc.

    After the sixties, they decided first college students, then high school, now Jr. High don't need protecting...except from evil things like pocket knives and discussion of what's happening at other schools.


    Originally posted by thenewrules

    We have over extended our children's education budget in favor of lining the pockets of Reagan's fat oil buddies. As if we weren't still bleeding badly from those wounds, now Bush wants to take the knife and plunge it straight up the ass of our kids.
    More prisons, more guns, more cops and, education?? We'll teach em how to pray. That'll just solve everything, won't it? It's that Dirty Harry mentality. If there ain't a great big explosion at the end you just don't feel complete somehow....
    If money were the solution, NYC schools, funded at twice the national average, would be the best schools in the country.

    e

  15. #15
    Super Dominator killabry's Avatar
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    ME!!!

    Look what I started, this is some good stuff...

    My school is a rich upper-class snotty place to be, and we are really tough on the gun thingy. Its a pain sometimes that we cant talk about these things openly in school. On friday in English we were talking about the Florida kid who shot his English teacher. My teacher said, "The guy should die. He was so dumb, he didn't hide the body or anything..." Paraphrased.... and I said "Thanks for the tips" and she said "That wasn't funny". We all know I'm not gonna kill anyone, I got Flash to do

    -Killabry out

  16. #16
    CapTy99.com Webmaster
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    i compare it to getting kicked off a plane for saying the word bomb.

  17. #17
    FK Official Postman
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    Originally posted by capty99
    i compare it to getting kicked off a plane for saying the word bomb.
    even if they are just saying "kb1827" is da bomb . Just kidding

  18. #18
    CapTy99.com Webmaster
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    Originally posted by kb1827
    Originally posted by capty99
    i compare it to getting kicked off a plane for saying the word bomb.
    even if they are just saying "kb1827" is da bomb . Just kidding
    you could say that, but the cops wouldnt do nothing cause they know you were lying. j/k. haha

  19. #19
    FK Official Postman
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    Our school is very lenient about the words, but not about the actions themslves. we can talk, but not perform.

  20. #20
    <img src="/graphics/junk/swirl.gif"><BR>Bodypaintin' Freak<BR>I ate my post count again
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    The problem is not kids who draw guns, or draw explosions. Kids are creative and if they want to draw a comic of a character shooting up someone then who cares.

    The problem is schools who do not want to teach kids and the more thye can get rid of , no matter the reason, the better. So This zero Tolerence comes in, anyone with a tooth pic and an imagination better watch out.

    Over population in the schools, and bad, and I mean BAD school board members along with administrative people take it on their own to "filter" out the "bad seeds" is why folks get kicked out. When that happens they say "Its part of our zero tolerence policy" and that justafies it.


    Im a perfectably normal guy, both parents, no run in with the law other than a speeding ticket or two.

    When I was in school I drew anything from b51s nuking the Gym, to Santa flying an f-15. I still draw volent things today and I personally believe that me doing that on paper kept me from being a violent person. Supressing the imagination of the kids will cut off theyre ability to vent in a positive way (yes blowing up a city or a school on paper is positive venting) and then whats gonna happen?


    The kids who DO snap and start killing folks didnt do it because mommy and daddy were bad, or they listened to Manson (which folks are blaming the Columbine thing on) or played violent video games.

    They did it for two reasons. Attention, and being tired of being picked on/bullied.

    And obviously theyres something wrong inside their heads, thats a given. We all have been bullied at one point and we didnt snap. But to try to analyze someone for doing what they did is a waste.


    Expelling little jonnie because he draws some guy blowing the ever loving hell out of someone else isnt the answer.

    Expelling the mean bastard who gets off on pushing little jonnie around everyday making him not WANT to go to school is the key.


    Schools pick and choose how they deal with/prevent problems.

    They are just picking and choosing wrong.
    D

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