My right click menu FK tute is finally done. Would you try to break it for me?

[Sem]

Originally posted by Stickman
bvgroote is right about the menu pop-up problem.

This means you might have to apply this script to each and every mc on the fla????? maybe???

It won't work, because Flash can't trap for right-click. I suspect it's only working at all because the background of the .swf is transparent -- so you're effectively clicking on the HTML (which can trap for right-click), not the Flash (which can't).

The more I look into the JavaScript error the more I'm convinced it's a timing issue. Perhaps you need to create some sort of check to make sure the main flash document is loaded before trying to execute the setpage() script.

Good call on the right capture, I can't believe I didn't notice before (denial ). Well, I suppose this could still be useful with certain designs...

Sem.

[johnie]

I've broken it:

I removed the Source Code on Sems request-
If you really want to see it you can either click on the gray areas, hit the IE edit button on IE (Which makes any attempt to use a right click protection scheme null), Use the sweet spot- the very upper left hand corner of the SWF, Pointing Notepad to the file in the Cache, Loading the URL in a Dynamic Text Box from a flash movie, ECT ECT ECT.

Remember IDG nets Advice-  If its on the World Wibe Web its not secure.

The location of your SWF is here: http://www.networksplus.net/sem/Back...pennerBack.swf

Do you really want me to go on and tell you what you scripted in your SWF??

Anyhow it took me less than 1/2 second to break it- in fact it was alsmost a no brainer.




[Edited by johnie on 10-19-2001 at 04:20 PM]

[Stickman]

Anyhow it took me less than 1/2 second to break it- in fact it was alsmost a no brainer.

Er...johnie...I think you're missing the point here: when Sem said 'see if you can break it' he meant 'see if you can find any bugs in it', not 'see if you can hack into it'. Hence all the talk above about javascript errors and such.

[johnie]

No obvious errors JS Errors IE 5.5 minus the standard Sweat Spot and third mouse click shenanigans- although I question its usefullness if not for security- which it obviously isn't secure???


Since you make no claims or instructions on how to use the Right Click Menu on the main Page Nielson would argue that this is nothing more than a toy.

See why do users right click???

They right click to get the defualt menu so they can navigate, aqdd the page to Favorites, copy from the HTML, Select from the HTML, Create shortcuts, Print, Refresh the Documenty, ETC

- You have taken that away from them without telling them or providing a good reason why- so you have actually decreased usability instead of increasing it. Not only have you decreased Usability but This Type of Navigation is the Ultimate Mystery Meat, outlined by Vincent Flanders, as most users will not right click for no reason. In fact I would say about 1/4 of computer users don't even know they can right click or that it pulls up a menu.
[Edited by johnie on 10-18-2001 at 06:23 PM]

[Sem]

Originally posted by johnie
No obvious errors JS Errors IE 5.5 minus the standard Sweat Spot and third mouse click shenanigans- although I question its usefullness if not for security- which it obviously isn't secure???

I wasn't really concerned with security at the time of development. I was primarily concerned with the right-clicking element (getting it to work, that is). Security measures can be introduced at the whim of the developer (although anyone can view the original frameset source and follow the script until they find all references to all of the the HTML pages, and the SWF) - if security is a user's concern than they should investigate a method that suits their needs.

Since you make no claims or instructions on how to use the Right Click Menu on the main Page Nielson would argue that this is nothing more than a toy.

There is a reference to the right-click context menu on the right hand side of the nav bar. I quickly threw that page together. Placing a more obvious visual cue is quite possible, i just didn't bother for my experimentation. The "site" was for me - and I knew the right click was there. As this isn't a normal navigational concept, I would definitely make it more clear on an actual project.

See why do users right click???

They right click to get the defualt menu so they can navigate, aqdd the page to Favorites, copy from the HTML, Select from the HTML, Create shortcuts, Print, Refresh the Documenty, ETC

- You have taken that away from them without telling them or providing a good reason why- so you have actually decreased usability instead of increasing it. Not only have you decreased Usability but This Type of Navigation is the Ultimate Mystery Meat, outlined by Vincent Flanders, as most users will not right click for no reason. In fact I would say about 1/4 of computer users don't even know they can right click or that it pulls up a menu.

You make some good points. However, I never claimed this to be a cure-all for the arguments that Flash is a useablility nightmare. I just thought it would improve useability slightly. Right clicking on a SWF typically brings up the fairly useless Macromedia context menu which I doubt is very beneficial to the end user (I've witnessed people accidentally zooming in, getting lost, and closing the browser window). The customized menu was an attempt to use this dead tool as a supplementary aid for navigating main sections of a web site -- many user complain that some flash sites confuse them with experimental navigation. I figured introducing an alternative right-click menu would provide the end user with an alternative option for navigation. <although there are definite bugs to work out, as mentioned in previous posts >

As far as the people that don't know about right-clicking, I doubt the customized menu's existance will disrupt their surfing lives. For the people who do utilize the right-click menu, perhaps they will enjoy the added supplementary function. Maybe not. (I suppose it is possible a user might enjoy zooming in or reading 'About Macromedia Flash Player 5').

Anyway, it was just a little experiment. It wasn't made to bring the Flash world crashing to it's knees, or on the flip-side, be a useability wünderkind. If you like it, use it. If you don't, well, don't

Whoa, I just proof-read and I hope I didn't sound pissy up there - some of my arguments come off that way. Wasn't my intention, just providing my perspective. If this thing doesn't work out, no biggie -- it was fun to do.

Cheers and thanks for the feedback,
Sem.
[Edited by Sem on 10-18-2001 at 07:58 PM]

[johnie]

I can think of 1 good use for this-

Online productivity apps and CBT simulated Windows Environments.



As far as the MM Menu being useless I have to disagree- I use the back and forward and zoom ques all the time from the MM context menu, that is when designers don't kill it.

Anyhow- it is a good toy as is and will probably help someone.

I suspect the errors you are getting are from people using IE 5.0 who didn't update their Jscript.

[johnie]

FK is broken again so I'm going to try to fix this.

[mbenney]

Originally posted by johnie
FK is broken again so I'm going to try to fix this.

broken?

[Sem]

Originally posted by mbenney

Originally posted by johnie
FK is broken again so I'm going to try to fix this.

broken?

Yep, I can't even post

Sem.

[mbenney]

Originally posted by Sem

Originally posted by mbenney

Originally posted by johnie
FK is broken again so I'm going to try to fix this.

broken?

Yep, I can't even post

Sem.

oh, that happens to me sometimes, what is it that actually happens?

[Sem]

Originally posted by mbenney

Originally posted by Sem

Originally posted by mbenney

Originally posted by johnie
FK is broken again so I'm going to try to fix this.

broken?

Yep, I can't even post

Sem.

oh, that happens to me sometimes, what is it that actually happens?

Nah, I was just messing around - posting about not being able to post. I was trying to make a funny. It doesn't work out sometimes

Sem.

P.S. Now that you mention it, it happens to me sometimes. It sometimes will go to a SQL error page. I usually just press back and drill the post button again. If it puts up duplicates, I just delete one. I don't find it to be a big deal.


[Edited by Sem on 10-18-2001 at 08:48 PM]

[mbenney]

Originally posted by Sem

Originally posted by mbenney

Originally posted by Sem

Originally posted by mbenney

Originally posted by johnie
FK is broken again so I'm going to try to fix this.

broken?

Yep, I can't even post

Sem.

oh, that happens to me sometimes, what is it that actually happens?

Nah, I was just messing around - posting about not being able to post. I was trying to make a funny. It doesn't work out sometimes

Sem.

P.S. Now that you mention it, it happens to me sometimes. It sometimes will go to a SQL error page. I usually just press back and drill the post button again. If it puts up duplicates, I just delete one. I don't find it to be a big deal.


[Edited by Sem on 10-18-2001 at 08:48 PM]

lol, im tired and drunk! make your jokes more obvious!

[Sem]

Originally posted by mbenney
lol, im tired and drunk!
[/B]

Well, I'm tired of not being drunk, especially after all this. Wing a Guinness my way...

make your jokes more obvious!

I'll start using [humor] tags.

Sem

[gerbick]

hey, I did not read through all of this... but I can still get the flash popup and your popup... is that normal?

[Sem]

Originally posted by gerbick
hey, I did not read through all of this... but I can still get the flash popup and your popup... is that normal?

Yeah, Stickman found out that if you click on the gray areas (the part of the flash movie that actually has graphics), the Flash context appears, and if you click on the transparent background the custom menu appears. It kinda takes away from the functionality of this thing, eh? You'd have to design a movie with most of the background transparent (no heavy graphical backgrounds). It would be good for minimalist sites, but graphics hogs would be SOL. Oh, well, I tried

Sem.

[Ekostudios]

Originally posted by johnie
No obvious errors JS Errors IE 5.5 minus the standard Sweat Spot and third mouse click shenanigans- although I question its usefullness if not for security- which it obviously isn't secure???


Since you make no claims or instructions on how to use the Right Click Menu on the main Page Nielson would argue that this is nothing more than a toy.

See why do users right click???

They right click to get the defualt menu so they can navigate, aqdd the page to Favorites, copy from the HTML, Select from the HTML, Create shortcuts, Print, Refresh the Documenty, ETC

- You have taken that away from them without telling them or providing a good reason why- so you have actually decreased usability instead of increasing it. Not only have you decreased Usability but This Type of Navigation is the Ultimate Mystery Meat, outlined by Vincent Flanders, as most users will not right click for no reason. In fact I would say about 1/4 of computer users don't even know they can right click or that it pulls up a menu.
[Edited by johnie on 10-18-2001 at 06:23 PM]

Normally, when right clicking an .swf you get a one line conext menu. 'About Macromedia Flash 5' or some gibbrish like that.

Sem, this is an awesome tool.

I did find a slight delay in the menu popup (1/2 secondish)

Error on page load:
line: 10
error: object doesnt support this property or method

Tips:
If the context window ONLY popped up when right clicking on the .swf and not when clicking elsewhere it would solve Johnie's issue with loosing the normal context window.

Looks great tho.

"In fact I would say about 1/4 of computer users don't even know they can right click or that it pulls up a menu."

So true!! I figured that out the hard way when trying to tell people how to print an swf on a page.

The site had said: "right click here to print" so many people were confused (thought is was a typo for 'click right here to print')and i had to end up fixing the guys work to include flash print functions.

I always hafta make fun of the peopl who didn't know they could right-click "didn't you ever wonder what that other button on the mouse was?!"

[eko]

[Sem]

[QUOTE
I always hafta make fun of the people who didn't know they could right-click "didn't you ever wonder what that other button on the mouse was?!"

[eko] [/QUOTE]

Yeah, I worked in tech support for longer than I cared to, and I actually had some lady say "Oh! I thought that was for people who are left-handed". I had to put her on mute and ROFL. Ah, those moments just made the day.

If you know javascript and want to help me figure this out, go to town. Johnie was, er, considerate enough to "hack" into and post the code I used for the whole world to see.

Sem.

P.S. Whoa, I am gettin outta control with these smilies...


.
[Edited by Sem on 10-18-2001 at 11:05 PM]

[gerbick]

hmmmm... SEM, I may have some code at the office that may be able to help you...

in fact, go here:

http://www.15seconds.com/issue/010927.htm

extremely similar method to a project I am working on at the moment. think it will work with flash too?

...hmmmm, part of my site is planned to be XML, maybe, just maybe......

Originally posted by Sem
Yeah, Stickman found out that if you click on the gray areas (the part of the flash movie that actually has graphics), the Flash context appears, and if you click on the transparent background the custom menu appears. It kinda takes away from the functionality of this thing, eh? You'd have to design a movie with most of the background transparent (no heavy graphical backgrounds). It would be good for minimalist sites, but graphics hogs would be SOL. Oh, well, I tried

[Sem]

Originally posted by gerbick
hmmmm... SEM, I may have some code at the office that may be able to help you...

in fact, go here:

http://www.15seconds.com/issue/010927.htm

extremely similar method to a project I am working on at the moment. think it will work with flash too?

<spraying current beverage all over screen> OMG! Let's find a way!! This is über-cool. When I am less buzzed (consumption due to a long day at work), I plan on devouring this idea. You don't mind do you (your idea, after all)? I just want to see it happen. I believe the context menu should live up to it's adjective - it should provide additional options for the currently selected item, which should include web pages. No one seems to get angry with context menu changes when they right-click over an icon, or on an application's window, right? Why should it be different for a web site? As long as the developer uses it responsibly, and designs the context menu to make the user's surfing experience easier for the particular page, what is wrong with that? The web is bound to go through some growing pains - why be stuck in the early-mid 90's? Erm, time to step off my soap box What do you think, gerbick?

Sem.



[Edited by Sem on 10-19-2001 at 12:48 AM]

[Sem]

BTW, would a mod mind editing the post in the thread that displays this source code? It's not that I want to keep it a secret or anything, it's just that the version posted is a hybrid version of robert penner's code. I'd like permission from him before it gets posted on a public forum. It's the polite thing to do

Sem.