The Cardinal Sins of Web Design

[erova]

but unfortunately the site customers can use are the same ones their suppliers pay for...

[nocrapchurch]

Originally posted by erova
but unfortunately the site customers can use are the same ones their suppliers pay for...

What do you mean "usability sucks"? Do you like being unable to use things? Or do just mean useit.com sucks?

-scott
http://www.scottmanning.com/

[FairyJanis]

Originally posted by nocrapchurch

What do you mean "usability sucks"? Do you like being unable to use things? Or do just mean useit.com sucks?

-scott
http://www.scottmanning.com/

i think being able to use a site is good.
useit.com does suck. it is like living in an unfinished basement.

whatever happen to form follows function.

[Hannibal Smith]

Even though the guy is a tool, he has some good points.

http://useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html

[erova]

sorry about the confusion...

when i was saying *yeah usability sucks* i was being quite sarcastic, implying that a lot of designers think that their methods are so unique, so extraordinary, that users will defy convention and habit simply to figure out a particular site. i think all of us know this is not true.

funny thing is that i'm quite into usability. when i wrote that response i had just returned from boston from s. krug's seminar on usability...he's the guy who wrote *don't make me think*...needless to say i think usability is an issue everyone should consider, however, it continually appears as though it is an afterthought or only for huge projects...definitely not the case in my opinion.....

[jamiewi]

I'll say one thing for Jakob Nielsen. He never ceases to be thought-provoking.

It's always good to take on board such well-thought-out ideas. Even if you disagree with what's being said.

I personally try to take a common sense approach to usability. I hate getting bogged down in pedantic arguments about colour conventions and such. I think anyone who browses the web on a regular basis could give you an excellent list of what works and what sucks, and for the most part, people will agree on the bad things.

Good comment about useit.com being like an "unfinished basement". That's exactly right.

[elmwucko]

Originally posted by jamiewi
I'll say one thing for Jakob Nielsen. He never ceases to be thought-provoking.

To be honest, the site is so ugly I won't even bother to look at it.

What can I say? I'm an artist.

While it's true the site may have good content, I believe that if you present something in a hideous package, you can expect the viewer to be repulsed; the message will get lost.

Unless I had a specific item I needed on the website, I wouldn't bother. There is no thought to the design or usability.

By the way, I dislike popup windows, forcing the window to full screen mode, and frames, (with a couple exceptions). I also prefer external URLs to open a new window, while internal pages should open in the same window.

My $0.02

EM

[erova]

Originally posted by elmwucko

Unless I had a specific item I needed on the website, I wouldn't bother. There is no thought to the design or usability.

i think ideas like this one are the reason we think of the *starving artist* cliche.

My clients pay me to build sites that people use, and a gorgeous site that confuses, bewilders, or just plain annoys a potentially paying customer just doesn't quite pull the same dime on the freelance market.

Granted, there are the personal sites are not utilitarian; I don't think we're talking about usability when it comes to your own art that you create, rather, we're talking about usability's importance between developer-client, and client-customer.

[nocrapchurch]

Originally posted by erova
My clients pay me to build sites that people use, and a gorgeous site that confuses, bewilders, or just plain annoys a potentially paying customer just doesn't quite pull the same dime on the freelance market.

Granted, there are the personal sites are not utilitarian; I don't think we're talking about usability when it comes to your own art that you create, rather, we're talking about usability's importance between developer-client, and client-customer.

I hear what you're saying. I think a lot of people want to be "cutting edge" in web design, but they sacrifice usability to do so.

-scott
http://www.scottmanning.com/

[Markosef]

So then web designers are needed so much??

Originally posted by Eyenovation

Originally posted by OddDog
content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content,

Good point.

[OddDog]

i was waiting for someone to get back to the core issue ...

[todd.o.callen]

I just got my first piece of anonymous hate mail from a user of the corporate intranet site.

He/she/it attached a printout of the Top 10 reasons webpages suck, and on that list is the word Flash.

I have been hyping getting the viewer to our users because I am about to release a top-secret bonus calculator to them in Flash. It pretty much pissed me off to see gurus trashing Flash that much. My anonymous hate monger doesn't even know what Flash is, but now I am going to suck because I dare to use it.

I do agree that any tool can be abused. Flash is an artform, and I am just getting started as an artist.

I do believe that most of us know that Flash can be used very effectively as a low-bandwidth tool to give sites ulitarian functionality while adding some personalized pizzaz.

Any great ideas about how to stick it to the faceless idiot?
I am not the type to not let non-constructive criticism just bounce off. In fairness, there were actually some valid complaints (that I haven't been able to work out over the last months for various reasons.)

Thanks for the forum for venting.

[Negaiss]

mailbomb his e-mail with 2500 messages saying YOU LOVE FLASH

[todd.o.callen]

If I knew for sure who it was (I have suspicions), I wouldn't need help introducing the concept of consequences.

[OddDog]

i always thought that is part of the problem.

flash is an artform

NO NO NO NO.

but then in four pages of posts on what is hated about web sites, only I have talked about content.

Why ??

Is this forum dominated by artists and wannabe artists ???


as for the email. just ignore it. its just an idiot mailer.

[todd.o.callen]

What I meant by artform is that one can be technically competant and still miss the mark completely.

An artform is something that requires more than just technique to be successful. I believe that this is your point. Part of good Flash is knowing when to say no. The complete content message is the goal, but there are many ways of flavoring a message so that it communicates to more people more effectively. IF I WROTE EVERYTHING IN ALL CAPS, YOU WOULD PROBABLY HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION OF ME, AND YOU MIGHT EVEN IGNORE MY MESSAGE. even if you didn't, you still m i g h t h a v e d f f i c u l t y r e a d i n g i t. VISUALcOmMuNiCaTiOn IS an artform whose roots are in the science of perception. How well a designer works this scientific magic amounts to his/her level of artistry. The first task of message delivery is to get people to read the message.

[Jon Chapman]

Originally posted by todd.o.callen
What I meant by artform is that one can be technically competant and still miss the mark completely.

An artform is something that requires more than just technique to be successful. I believe that this is your point. Part of good Flash is knowing when to say no. The complete content message is the goal, but there are many ways of flavoring a message so that it communicates to more people more effectively. IF I WROTE EVERYTHING IN ALL CAPS, YOU WOULD PROBABLY HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION OF ME, AND YOU MIGHT EVEN IGNORE MY MESSAGE. even if you didn't, you still m i g h t h a v e d f f i c u l t y r e a d i n g i t. VISUALcOmMuNiCaTiOn IS an artform whose roots are in the science of perception. How well a designer works this scientific magic amounts to his/her level of artistry. The first task of message delivery is to get people to read the message.

[todd.o.callen]

?????????

[fishee]

I hAte iT wHEn PE0plE TYpE lIkE tHIs 0r sUbsTITute zERoEs f0R tHE LetTEr 0. Also, poorly translated websites that make the designer appear like a moron. And I hate sites that allow banners which flash in bright colors and at a rate of speed that may cause seizures.

As for content, I think the main reason there is insufficient content in many websites is due to the client's inability to provide it (or desire to provide as much as *you* think should be given).

I don't wanna start a flash-bash, but a friend's attitude summed it up for me pretty well when I asked her about flash stuff....she said "I don't like things popping open and wizzing around and distracting me from the reason I came to visit. I came seeking information, not a circus act."

I've since cut way back on my desires to flashturbate.

There's my .02 cents....that brings us up almost to a nickel now, right?

-fishee

[edperks]

Using someone eles work for your own. I hate that the most.