cold fusion or asp?

[bsmuv]

First off

Cold Fusion pre-dates all of the PHP's, ASP's , and MySQL free mumbo jumbo out there.

FACT: ASP was developed in responce to Allaire's Cold Fusion which at the time was in ver 2.0 moving to 3.0

FACT: ASP is NOT user friendly nor is it easy to learn. Cold Fusion was developed as a powerful Tag based language aimed at HTML/ Javascript developers with a low learning curve in mind so as not to undermind it growth in the industry.

FACT: ASP can not be extended by simply writing a new tag. Cold Fusion has well over 150 tags to do just about anything you want. If there isn't a tag you can simply write a new one and place it on your server without having to re-compile the server service.

FACT: Cold Fusion natively supports tags written in C++ and will soon support Java with the new release of Cold Fusion MX.

FACT: Cold Fusion supports connectivity to dissimilar data systems though native support of WDDX and XML. Yes there is a tag for both.

FACT: Cold Fusion Enterprise has native Cluster Server/ Load Balancing/ Fail Loadover capablities since version 4.0. This feature was avabile LONG before Microsoft made it avaible in Windows 2000. This isn't even in ASP realm.

FACT: Cold Fusion will native support Actionscript in the new version.

Add all that up and throw in all the previously mentioned features and benifits..... well you can take your free BDS's and PHP's and put them in your pipe and smoke one.

-I'm a Cold Fusion/ Flash Developer for life!

[sotirov]

Somebody stated that he heard on a conference about new protocol called AMF (Action Message Format) is this official? Can any one of the senior members confirm at least that MM is working on such a thing and tell us the poor bastards which year it will be out on the market if ever.
This is probably the most important news after the one about the new parsing speed of XML in flash MX....

[gSOLO_01]

Originally posted by sotirov
Somebody stated that he heard on a conference about new protocol called AMF (Action Message Format) is this official? Can any one of the senior members confirm at least that MM is working on such a thing and tell us the poor bastards which year it will be out on the market if ever.
This is probably the most important news after the one about the new parsing speed of XML in flash MX....

what is CFScript? is there such a thing... i'm new to coldfusion but i know they use some sort of scripting in there. maybe we just need to stay tuned for ColdFusion MX. i don't think macromedia would go out and create a new script.

bsmuv
FACT: Cold Fusion will native support Actionscript in the new version.

how will actionscript/coldfusion/cfscript(?) link up. i mean... will i be able to use coldfusion code instead of action script in my flash movies and vice versa?

[bsmuv]

CFScript is not new.......

It's been around since version 3.5 and all it is is a different way of programing in Cold Fusion. Remember I said it was developed so that if you understood HTML coding Cold Fsion would be simple for you to learn. Well Allaire took it one step further. When it rolled out 3.5 one of the features was CFScript. CFScript mimics JavaScript in it's layout and syntax but it is NOT and I repeat NOT Javascript. Example:

Tag Based Cold Fusion:

'cfswitch'
'cfcase'code statments'/cfcase'
'cfcase'code statments'/cfcase'
'cfcase'code statments'/cfcase'
'cfdefaultcase'code statments'/cfdefaultcase'
'/cfswitch'

CFScript Based code that dose the exact same as above:

'cfscript'
switch(){
case0: code statments
case1: code statments
case2: code statments
defaultcase: code statments
}
'/cfscript'

*Note: replace the ' with the > or the <

If you want to be technical it boils down to keystrokes. Most programmers (myself included) want to develope a quality product without massive amounts of code. CFScript allows you to cut down on the amount of keystrokes you make in writting lines of code. There are a few features of Cold Fusion that are not accessable to CFScript but overall it comes down to a preference thing.
Example: If I'm working on a website that has Cold Fusion and Flash I'm using CFScript because it keeps my mind in the "Scripting" mode so when I'm programming the ActionScript portions I have less brain farts. Where as if it's all Cold Fusion Application then it's all tag based of me.

Anywho that's my $1.98 on the topic........ CFScript is not new and if anything in the new version of Cold Fusion MX it will most likely be enhanced with it's entergration with the Java components. GO to MM and peep the section of whitepapers on Neo/ Cold Fusion MX
[Edited by bsmuv on 03-14-2002 at 01:43 PM]

[smudge]

regarding AMF - nothing is official until Macromedia says it's official. There might be some more news I suspect after the launch of Flash MX.
However, the Flash MX seminar yesterday clearly mentioned AMF and the Application Server gateway. Also the Macromedia marketing documentation that was handed out also has it in it...

here's some related info from devx on server integration :
(note the line ... via a protocol - presumably AMF?)

One feature missing from this version of Flash MX is true server application integration, but that's coming. ColdFusion MX, which is expected this summer, is the first market evidence of the merger between Macromedia and Allaire. Consisting of a Flash Application Server Gateway and a Communications server, Flash authors will be able to integrate applications on J2EE and .NET servers, as well as the ColdFusion MX server via a protocol built into the Flash 6 player itself.

The application server gateway provides an interface between app servers and the Flash client that goes beyond the useful but inflexible HTTP Get/Post methodology Flash currently provides. Right now, Flash authors must build an intermediary interface to server applications that can accept requests via HTTP. Typically this entails an ASP, PHP, or JSP page that brokers requests to and from a server application. The application server promises to eliminate this middleman.

The communication server promises to broker direct inter-client connectivity for applications such as synchronous messaging. In addition, Macromedia will also release Dreamweaver MX, which will add support for additional server and connectivity technologies for Flash and application architects. If you've been creating middle-tier pages to connect Flash clients to servers dynamically, you will be glad to know that you won't have to do that much longer. Until then, Flash MX offers an abundance of new features.

[Benau]

Learn PHP...it is very simple and powerful.

If you need convincing...check this thing called Ming out;
from my limited understanding PHP can even generate .swf movies much like a master can tell a dog to roll over

http://www.opaque.net/ming/examples/index.html

[Ghostdance]

Originally posted by bsmuv
First off

Cold Fusion pre-dates all of the PHP's, ASP's , and MySQL free mumbo jumbo out there.

FACT: ASP is NOT user friendly nor is it easy to learn. Cold Fusion was developed as a powerful Tag based language aimed at HTML/ Javascript developers with a low learning curve in mind so as not to undermind it growth in the industry.

FACT: ASP can not be extended by simply writing a new tag. Cold Fusion has well over 150 tags to do just about anything you want. If there isn't a tag you can simply write a new one and place it on your server without having to re-compile the server service.

FACT: Cold Fusion natively supports tags written in C++ and will soon support Java with the new release of Cold Fusion MX.

FACT: Cold Fusion supports connectivity to dissimilar data systems though native support of WDDX and XML. Yes there is a tag for both.

Add all that up and throw in all the previously mentioned features and benifits..... well you can take your free BDS's and PHP's and put them in your pipe and smoke one.

-I'm a Cold Fusion/ Flash Developer for life!

Well I will respond to this sense you obviously know so much about ColdFusion <-- one word by the way I am sure you just mistyped that sense you in some ColdFusion gang for life. ASP just requires a brain to code with its bloated and lame but your Fact is wrong considering VB is probably the most widely used programming language out there. You talk about c++ programming if you can do that im sure PHP is no problem. The reason I quoted that fact is you can write CFX tags in any compiled language already Delphi, C++ ect so put that in your Pipe my friend (Also Java). Hate to burst your bubble on the XML but they will all do this. The greatest of your comment BDS's its BSD its a OS and well with a comment like that its easy to see Microsoft has your balls in a jar and you have no idea about anything.

Before you come with a mouth full of crap learn a thing or two maybe even learn about the others before you start posting stupid Facts. Try to start with learning ColdFusion first though.

[sotirov]

While waiting someone to answer the question about AMF (Action Message Format) , I became a witness to a such a stupid discussion that made me post this thread.
The use of a particular technology is only driven by the business requirements and prise a client is ready to pay. Yes all the technologies are competing with each other and in specific cases some has advantages over the others but as a manager of a web development team I'm telling you that I believe it is better to stay opened and tuned for every kind of technology, cause you do not know what client will come knocking on your door tomorrow. I hope you are not telling me that you are going to turn your back on somebody requiring from you to use certain technology, and showing you the money just because you are in love in any of them.

[bsmuv]

It really is just a matter of what you prefer.... however I just get sooooooo sick and tired of people whining about Cold Fusion (<ColdFusion> for you is the branded name if you want to get all technical and things....) is not better then ASP or PHP and it must lack power because "my ten year old sister and read the code."

As for your "ASP requires a brain to program" comment, no it requires that you use Microsofts bass ackword way of doing things and not making it user friendly. The fact that Microsoft developed VisualBasic and VBScript inorder to compete with ColdFusion speaks wonders to the insight that Allaire had and how much of a quality product it is. With ASP you need to know ASP, VB, VBScript and God knows what else to get the same level of power and functionality you get from just knowing ColdFusion. And like I said ColdFusion came first. It made the blueprint for others to follow and even Microsoft mucked it up and didn't get it right. I can tell you in the last 4 years I personnally have converted ASP web applications from ASP to ColdFusion at the request of clients because ASP is a bloated, highover-head, high maintaince, high learning curve solution that is just not as powerful and feature packed as ColdFusion.
And with the new release of ColdFusion do out this summer, it combines ColdFusion, Flash and Java all on one platform..... you tell me who's got the better application server Mircosoft or Macromedia? BTW you can run ColdFusion on Solaris, HP, Microsoft, Apache and Linux. What about ASP? So you want to run that line of BS by me again about which one is better.

[Ghostdance]

bsmuv

You should read my other posts in this thread before you talk more crap. That’s all I will say about this to you.

Oh yeah BTW. ColdFusion will run on Solaris and Linux. ASP will work on Linux as well do you just like copy and paste from others or something. I hope you’re not in charge of anything more technical than a ballpoint pen in life. As far as Apache that’s a web server. If you want to bring your real technical "BS" PHP will run on more OS's and more web servers than ASP or ColdFusion so shut your mouth with your lame facts.
[Edited by Ghostdance on 03-15-2002 at 05:15 PM]

[shutyagob]

I've decided to throw a spanner into the works, I've heard Macromedia are working with Microsoft on a new low level programming language that will wipe the floor with ASS-P, OHP, DSS, MOT etc, etc

It's a language even more basic than binary - its only written in 1's.

So you lot can all go and smoke a very large pipe and I'll pay for it with all the 2 cents on this thread.

Aah sod all this, I'm going to be a fireman.

[aashu.com]

interesting!!!

[MikeDowney]

Originally posted by shutyagob
It's a language even more basic than binary - its only written in 1's.

Actually, we switched it to 0's.

MD

[MXAlPhA]

After reading the first page, i stopped, so here's my suggestions:

ASP a very popular and very easy language. It's very very similar to javascript and vb (especially vbscript). It was a sinch for me to learn. If you're familiar with more object-oriented languages (ie. vb, c, c++ and etc.), this will probably be your best choice. ASP is more used on business sites cause it's a lot cheaper to maintain. Take this into consideration, the people who you will be creating sites for. Standard in IIS servers, only works with add-ons on other operating systems other than windows.

PHP is also very popular, but it's COMPLETELY functions. I'm not joking, it's function after function. Kind of puthetic on the programmers part cause you have to memorize all the functions (don't try to memorize, use the reference manual at first, then you'll settle in with the language and use it less and less. Don't be afraid to use the reference manual, EVERYONE uses them... hehe).
Though mainly functions, still very easy if you have a good reference manual. It's cheaper cause it's standard in APACHE web servers. It's free and is pretty much standard everywhere other than IIS.

CFM (coldfusion), i don't know a lot about it but this is what i know. It's easy to program because the scripts are about a quarter of the size of ASP and PHP. Not an understatement, it's simple open database, search, put results in table or whateve. Problem... i'm not sure, but i'm pretty sure you require a special coldfusion server for it which might in the end increase prices for your clients.

Important Factors: Clients... which will be more or less expensive for them.

P.S. about integration with Flash, i don't have any experience with that. But the loadvariables should work, i never tried it out, but using it, you can retrieve and send variables from ASP/PHP/CFM/JSP/PL/*2 many 2 say em all*.

Hope this helps!

[MXAlPhA]

Originally posted by bsmuv
First off

Cold Fusion pre-dates all of the PHP's, ASP's , and MySQL free mumbo jumbo out there.

FACT: ASP was developed in responce to Allaire's Cold Fusion which at the time was in ver 2.0 moving to 3.0

FACT: ASP is NOT user friendly nor is it easy to learn. Cold Fusion was developed as a powerful Tag based language aimed at HTML/ Javascript developers with a low learning curve in mind so as not to undermind it growth in the industry.

FACT: ASP is VERY easy to learn if you're experienced with object oriented languages. Coldfusion is tag based, which increases the amount you have to memorize. I'm more familiar with object-oriented languages so it's easier for me. PHP is constantly expanding and i think would look a lot better if it'd be object-oriented.

FACT: ASP can not be extended by simply writing a new tag. Cold Fusion has well over 150 tags to do just about anything you want. If there isn't a tag you can simply write a new one and place it on your server without having to re-compile the server service.

FACT: You can write relatively simple .dll's in VB that can do the same thing. Question... how does coldfusion know what you're talking about if you add a new tag? Does it somehow read your mind? PHP is open source so you can change whatever you want if you're an experienced C (i think it's written in C) programmer.

FACT: Cold Fusion natively supports tags written in C++ and will soon support Java with the new release of Cold Fusion MX.

FACT: Cold Fusion supports connectivity to dissimilar data systems though native support of WDDX and XML. Yes there is a tag for both.

FACT: Cold Fusion Enterprise has native Cluster Server/ Load Balancing/ Fail Loadover capablities since version 4.0. This feature was avabile LONG before Microsoft made it avaible in Windows 2000. This isn't even in ASP realm.

FACT: HUH? windows 2000 advanced server+/windows .net (Wateve) server's all support clustering web requests. MYSQL doesn't support clustering so you're screwed there. You might be able to get clustering out of that kit from redhat, forgot what it's called, but i have to get it on of these days.

FACT: ASP can be clustered!! not sure about PHP...

FACT: Cold Fusion will native support Actionscript in the new version.

COMMENT: that'll be pretty cool, but, what exactly do you mean by support?

Add all that up and throw in all the previously mentioned features and benifits..... well you can take your free BDS's and PHP's and put them in your pipe and smoke one.

-I'm a Cold Fusion/ Flash Developer for life!

I'm a very experienced/knowledagable microsoft programmer (ASP, vb, and etc.) so i can't exactly be very objective. I sadly have to go to m$ side. They produce inferior programs, but, their your best choice.

[NETbreed]

Hi Folks,

This is getting a little out of hand. I know that debates as to "which [anything] is the best" can run very high in the emotion stakes, but let's get a little perspective here.

If you're a happy ColdFusion developer, that's fine by me. ColdFusion isn't my bag but I accept that others absolutely love it. No doubt I'll have to revisit CF once the mighty M release their ColdFusion MX server technology.

If you're a happy ASP developer, that's fine too. Again, ASP isn't my favourite web scripting language, but that's more to do with the fact that it's based on VBScript than anything else. I've developed in ASP when a client had requested it specifically and it's not a particularly hard language to learn...it's just that it doesn't do anything special for me.

If you're a happy PHP developer, then I'm with you! I've been programming in PHP for 4 years now, and having come from a traditional C/C++ programming background I found this to be a *very* easy language to pick up. Yes, it's full of functions, but that's a good thing. It means that your turnaround time is significantly lower, but you also have the option of rolling your own code should you feel like it!

Whichever server-side language floats your boat, I'm truly happy for you. However, trying to convert another developer who is equally happy with *their* choice of language it nigh-on impossible! This thread started with a question as to which backend package gotDrums should use, and it's degenerated into a "my language is better than your language" pissing contest! For a more healthy thread, try to list the advantages/disadvantages of the languages you know about without making subjective comparisons!

Right, now play nicely!

Regards,

Steve

[bennybravo]

Dude- if you're just starting out- dont even think twice- go with coldfusion.

Sure there's a lot of support for ASP but i think there's almost too much. Try looking for a tutourial on ASP now you going to be bombed with a million little crappy sites by jaques custo about leanrning vbscript for asp 1.00a1v or something...

Dont even look at PHP. Sure its powerful. So far i've been the most impressed by what colleagues of mine have produced with PHP. But they're all guru dudes with long hair and megadeth t-shirts. You dont want to end up like that. Trust me- try installing mySQL or Apache server... You be singing along to iron maiden in no time.

Cold fusion on the other hand is frrrrresh. Not fresh in as far as how long it been around for sure- but fresh in its emergence as product for the next generation of developers. Macromedia have ripped it out of the hands of those Jethro Tull programmer hippies dudes- shone it up and made it look pretty and given it lots of support and clear concise documentation.

coldfusion is the way to go.