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Thread: is it ok to MANIPULATE FlasH??

  1. #1
    Special Member Tea_J's Avatar
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    Over the months (prolly a year) I've been trying to find ways to customize Flash (mainly projectors) to my own taste and identity... This includes that 4ever unresolved "how to disable rightclick" question.. Well, in the projector side, i've found a way to do this, plus a lot more.. like totally removing Macromedia Identity and replacing it with my personal stuff.. Title Caption, About, and all that..


    Question is, IS THIS LEGALLY OK?? I mean, sure a lot of people with the know-how has been doing this.. But, I just wana know if this is REALLY OK..


    AnyBody?


    Thanks

  2. #2
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    If you can do it from within flash (ie. no third party programs) then it should be ok... Otherwise it would depend on what you're doing. (Not that Im an expert on the subject).

  3. #3
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    it's all in the eula (end user license agreement - that thing you click "OK" on when you are installing the program) i'm sure it drops a copy on your hard drive somewhere too. otherwise it's on the cd or on MM's site.

    that's what you agreed to, so that's what you need to legally abide by, if you can understand it

  4. #4
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    no, it is not legal. read the EULA for Flash.

    mike chambers

    mesh@macromedia.com

  5. #5
    Special Member Tea_J's Avatar
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    Hi Mike... How's it been?

    Ok, I read the EULA again, but here's the lowdown.. Basically, the whole thing speaks/restricts about the FLASH PROGRAM, the authoring software, NOT THE WORKS.. However, I did find one that spoke about the products done with the software..

    Section 3 "Restrictions"

    "d) You may not modify the Software or create derivative works based upon the Software."
    --FLASH EULA--

    Although this statement is quite vague (in relation to my concern), it may say something against manipulating projectors..


    But here's a contradiction mike, if it is ILLEGAL to manipulate flash projectors, then what's with the abbundance of Projector Editing softwares??? not to mention a few of them are MAINSTREAM PRODUCTS.. A few examples are, SWIFFCANVAS,SWF STUDIO, JUGGLLOR, and that new program from binarynoise - mProjector....


    These sofwares allow you to modify flash from removing the "right-click", changing Title Captions and other informations, to even replacing the flash ICON with your own (one of my favorites)

    SO, here's my conclusion,

    "You MAY NOT modify the FLASH Program/Authoting tool, but you can do what ever the hell you want from the works you've done from it.. After all , IT IS YOUR WORK, NOT MACROMEDIA's."
    ---hehe, i mean this with great respect for my favorite IT company, Macromedia.. Although, you have to admit, I DO have a good point here.

    So, anyone aggree on this? What ya think Mike?

    Good Day..
    Tea

  6. #6
    Special Member Tea_J's Avatar
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    And Mike? Just incase you have a solution for this... I was 100% proud of Flash MX until this...

    http://board.flashkit.com/board/show...hreadid=305839

  7. #7
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    ho ho ho

    I have only one thing to say and that is ...
    One day mm Flash will be an add on to northcode's swf studio!
    If you are doing standalones with flash I would seriously recoment you use swf studio, I have been keeping my mouth shut about this prog for so long it hurts. check out the plug ins section and dance a little dance.

    http://www.northcode.com


    just realized the thread I crossposted this to is yours too, oops.
    [Edited by angstrom on 05-02-2002 at 11:48 AM]

  8. #8
    Special Member Tea_J's Avatar
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    Re: ho ho ho

    YeAH!!! hahaha.... SWF studio is a great ap... I like it a lot.. Cant wait to get the full version of SWF studio.. soon as i get some extra cash..

    SOOoO... anybody else thinks it's alright to manipulate projectors????

  9. #9
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    Flash PLayer

    Actually what you are modifying is the flash player not your created project. Without Macromedia's player your project wouldn't run, so if you are modifying the projector in reality you are modifying the flash player which I'm sure if you remove the macromedia info is illegal. You need to be looking at the EULA for the player not the software itself. If removing the right click was legal I'm sure Adobe would of already made sure Livemotion projectors and swf files disabled this feature. Does this sound right Mike Chambers?

  10. #10
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    OK, I think it's pretty clear that this is not allowed.

    in the EULA:

    THIS EULA SHALL APPLY ONLY TO THE SOFTWARE SUPPLIED BY MACROMEDIA HEREWITH REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OTHER SOFTWARE IS REFERRED TO OR DESCRIBED HEREIN.


    Since projectors you create are just their projector executable with your SWF embedded, this would cover that.

    (b) You may not alter, merge, modify, adapt or translate the Software, or decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, or otherwise reduce the Software to a human-perceivable form.

    What makes it all so confusing, is that Macromedia has a Technote on their site about how to change the Icon in a Director Projector.

    Now, it is for an old version of Director and the EULA probably has changed, but either way it's confusing:

    http://www.macromedia.com/support/di...s/fmkb0611.htm

    Then there's the whole "EULAs may not be legally binding", "if you purchase software you should be able to do what you like with it" arguements, for more on that visit http://slashdot.org/ and feast.

    BUT, I beleive that Macromedia has given us a lot, and not asked for much in return. Although I don't like the Right-Click menu, I can live with the Icon and Titlebar names. So I don't agree with going against their wishes.


    What I'd really like is for Macromedia to release an Advanced Flash Projector studio, like SWF Studio, for both PC & Macintosh - and make everyone happy (except northcode).

  11. #11
    Special Member Tea_J's Avatar
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    Re: Flash PLayer

    YOu may have a point..
    But i believe that IT IS OK to do the said stuff cause FLASH is a TOOL and, WHATEVER you make from that TOOL is yours.. I mean, why in the world would someone buy a tool that MUST CARRY the tool's maker's trademark??? I mean, I WOULDNT BY A HAMMER FROM MACROMEDIA TO BUILD MY HOUSE IF I HAD TO PUT MACROMEDIA LOGOS ALL OVER MY FREAKIN HOUSE.(or be restricted to regulations) KNow what I mean?

    YES, the flash player is a different entity (although it is a standalone executable), but, I STRONGLY BELIEVE that macromedia shouldn't hold restrictions on it because THEY NEED TO SPREAD THE PLAYER TO MAKE SENSE OUT OF THE TOOL THeY're TRYING TO SELL FOR 300+ freakin DOllars...

    Hmm... hehe...

    What ya'll think?



    PS

    NORTHCODE's SWF STUDIO is great except that it plays flash real slow.. i mean i got an animation that plays in smooth 36fms, but with swf studio, it runs like it's on 20fps

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    who should get the credit? me or the hammer?

    in my real job ( for now anyway ) i remodel homes - one of the tools i need a lot is a hammer. It could be a $3 hammer from the dollar store or a $30 hammer at Home Depot. When i get done with whatever i am doing i have yet to have anyone say wow!!! nice job!! what hammer did you use?? The hammer has NEVER got credit for the final end result/product - I did!

    lol - and i never heard the hammer say hey do it my way or u cant use me

    somewhere along the line someone said YOU can't be creative unless u give ME the credit

    I think that Macromedia was wise ( or maybe saw the point that their sales increase when I look good, not them ) when it allowed people to download its source code which has resulted in only more proliferation of Flash in various guises - SWF Studio - *********** - Swish - etc which are other tools to help me produce a product giving me the credit - whatever you call it they all are Flash output. People see that and run to get the tool they need.

    And if you asked me what tool I used I will then tell you without hesitation.

    ok - the hammer , er Macromedia is a great tool but it never gets anything done unless it allows me to be creative and me to get the credit for the end result.

    i gotta get to work - anyone seen my $10 hammer?

    peace
    mikeintexas

  13. #13
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    and oh yea

    and o the statement - "I beleive that Macromedia has given us a lot, and not asked for much in return" is not really true

    #1 - they have asked for our money - how much did u pay? which we gave willingly by the way

    #2 - after getting our money for their tool they then told us how we can/cannot use it

    follow this -

    Macromedia's product is based on a piece of software someone else created, but on the splashscreen when it starts it never gives that original program its credit and as far as that goes they never said this was produced using such and such C++ coding program. Yet we say they dont have to give credit where credit is due yet they expect us to give them credit for their product.

    See the point? They themselves used some other tool/tools to make Flash so where is the credit they should be giving for the tools they used?

    Yet they want the credit for what we produce when we use their tools.

    Software is made for endusers not endusers made for software.

    peace

    mikeintexas


  14. #14
    Special Member Tea_J's Avatar
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    Re: who should get the credit? me or the hammer?

    Texas "the hammer" Mike.. good point.. Flash provided a tool for us to be creative.. a tool to "produce".. but that tool would be senseless without the player, therefore, they cant take TOO MUCH credit for the player.. I worked hard trying to learn flash, paid good money for painful licences.. Now i want to produce/author my creative works without limitations.. although, I am EXTREMELY greatful for Macromedia's tools, and I would have it written somewhere (like in my credits section)that my work was made possible with MM tools and players and stuffs.. but I WOULD REALLY INSIST that I maintain my creative identity through captions and modifications stuff like that.. (for one, who wouldnt appreciate having a BORDERLESS Flash presentation/application???)

    Respects to MM and Flash, but, reasonable/functional freedom to its users.. that's my call.

  15. #15
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    You both make *VERY VALID* points, but the software industry plays by different rules than any other.

    Where else are you bound by the terms of a license agreement, that you can't read, until you open the product? Often you are bound once the product is opened, even if you never could read the agreement. The license states that if you do not agree, you should return the software to the place of purchase -- yet you can not return software once it has been opened.

    So it's screwy, but that's how it is. Until somebody fights against these EULAs and fights for a consumer's right to own and do what they like with software they purchase, you're stuck to following their rules.

    Unless you want to go to court and fight it.

    I do not blame Macromedia for all of this. I'm just saying you can't compare the software industry to any other.

    So, once again I have to reccomend, that if you use their software, you *should* play by their rules. But I won't go as far as saying that legally you must.

    For entertainment:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25120.html

  16. #16
    Special Member Tea_J's Avatar
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    SO WHAT's UP with the abundance of Flash Modifying Softwares???? Why isnt MACROMEDIA up northstudio's azz??(SWF STUDIO) .... I mean, they're the ones who has the most features, and, concsequently, the most damages done to that EULA aggreement.. hehe..

    Yeah... well.. noone's really going against our beloved Macromedia.. Although, I, as well as hundreds of other flash developers out there, am in the progress of making this simple clinic records system done in flash(interacting with mySQL and stuff). Im workin my azz up for this program and when im done, I wana customize the whole interface accordingly (ofcourse giving macromedia due credits n the "Credits/About" area... and when im finished with all this, I WOULDNT WANT MACROMEDIA, or the freakin S.W.A.T. for this matter, looking for my azz all of a sudden..


  17. #17
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    SWF Studio does not modify the projector, they create their own using the Flash ActiveX.

    You could do the same, that's completely legal. You could use that and code your own player, and disable the right-click menu. But you have to code your own. And it won't be cross-platform.

    In theory, you could create a Macintosh version using the Netscape plugin.

    As for other programs that do modify the projector, I'm not sure. Maybe they don't modify the code, but encapsulize it and use Windows functions to change it's appearance. I think that would be EULA-legal, but I'm not sure.

    *ANYWAY*, you have what Macromedia gave you. if you think that's wrong, you need to take it up with Macromedia, or code a new player yourself. If you take the EULA at face value, you do not have the right to modify their software.

    What you paid for is what Macromedia gave you. If you feel you were deceived when you purchased Flash, then you will have to take that up with either Macromedia or a Court. They have no responsibility to give you anything more than they did. And like I said, unless you want to fight their EULA in court, you have no right to break it.

  18. #18
    Special Member Tea_J's Avatar
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    I see your point....although a bit contradictional.. but still, there are other sofwares there that people use to achieve the same thing.. Although swf clearly uses another so called "legal" method, it achieved the same results.. Me, im using EXEscOPE.. a simple little software that looks in exe files and allows you to create modifications thru harcoding..

    hmm... i wish mike chambers would come back on this thread and shed his ideas or sumthin..

  19. #19
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    resolved Macromedia should hold rights

    Macromedia put a lot of money into R&D and I think that it be only fair that they are able to keep the rights to show that the product belongs to them. When you build a web site it is always great publicity if you are allowed to put a "designed by line" at the bottom of the page. This is one of the main ways by which companies gain new customers, and therefore people should look at where they would be without it.

    respect should be given to macromedia for a product that has been accepted worldwide and rolled out everywhere.


  20. #20
    Special Member Tea_J's Avatar
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    Re: Macromedia should hold rights

    True that.. I believe MM deserves a lot for such an amazing product.. im even thinkin they're credible for a Noble Prize or sumthin.. But still, ryan, and for the rest of ya'll out there, YOU HAVE TO ADMIT, there are some attributes you wana change in flash..

    So, all this talk about respect and letting MM have their way.. what does this mean then?? Scrap SwiffCanvas? Jugglor? What have you?? I mean, my only "boggle" here is, WHY are they out there? I mean, manipulating the "end product" MUST BE OK then.. ok.. maybe not the full extent.. I undrestand the trade mark issue, and actually, i dont have a problem with that.. Ok, let's say I'll leave the trademarks alone, maybe just put a little authoring credits of my own... BUT I REALLY WANA CHANGE the caption/boarders (heck, even take t off) change the Icon, remove right click.. I JUST CANT HAVE MY WORK LOOKING LIKE EVERYONE ELSES! And I think that goes with all of us.. So, leave the MM internal Info and stuff, but some Physical Modification is an absolute MUST. ANd, so far, it's been clearly allowed, proven by the presence of so many softwares out there..


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