Dreamweaver

**Eyenovation** · 05-11-2002, 04:54 AM

Does anyone here NOT use Dreamweaver?
...or is it pretty much the industry standard?

**switchTone** · 05-11-2002, 05:27 AM

Truth be told, I hate Dreamweaver (4 at least). I'll take good ol' notepad over that..heh..I do almost all of my work there. The only exception is Perl. I use an editor for that.

**qetret** · 05-11-2002, 01:47 PM

Yeah I use dreamweaver all the time. Be pretty lost without it.

QETRET

**phooka** · 05-11-2002, 03:43 PM

Actually, I had a flash 99% against Dreamweaver 4 1% ratio... which is now flash 3% against D4 97%!

I love Dreamweaver, it is just simple and allows me to add content and pics at full speed... I guess that flash tended to stop my creative process under lots of motion and AS!

**switchTone** · 05-11-2002, 05:03 PM

lmao! I feel so outnumbered...

**Negaiss** · 05-11-2002, 05:14 PM

I use Dreamweaver a lot. I just love the two screen option. 1. is raw code other is wysiwyg. I know tht other editors have this function also, but I can do more in Dweaver and it's easier to import .swf's and scripts.

**joost_5** · 05-11-2002, 05:34 PM

DreamWeaver is my crutch for doing complicated HTML tables and frames. It'd take me 5x longer doing raw coding in notepad or Homesite.

**Gloomycus** · 05-11-2002, 06:12 PM

I'm a notepader. **** any and every WYSIWYG editor. Its for the truly lazy or those who can't handle the real deal and need a crutch to do anything.

**Negaiss** · 05-11-2002, 06:20 PM

don't say so ad about wysiwyg, becuse they save time for the easy things. I can still do things on notepad, but why to do it if I can really do the same thing with Dreamweaver 5X faster. TIME IS MONEY

edit- my language is gettin worse. 14 hours at my computer already. ........... sleeeeeeeeeeeeeep

**[-S|NiStEr_MiNd-]** · 05-11-2002, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Gloomycus
I'm a notepader. **** any and every WYSIWYG editor. Its for the truly lazy or those who can't handle the real deal and need a crutch to do anything.

I totally disagree with that. I can and have programmed by hand in notepad, BUT when you work for a design firm where there are deadlines and a hundred projects on the go, you don't screw around with handcoding things. It doesn't matter how fast you can type and how good you are, an editor is faster. And as the last post stated, time is money.

**clifgriffin** · 05-12-2002, 12:05 AM

Heck...dreamweaver MX's code hints are worth the money by themself. I usually format things in design view and clean everything up in the code view. Often times, I just code everything in the code view.

I hated Dreamweaver 4, MX is great!

**JabezStone** · 05-12-2002, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by Gloomycus
I'm a notepader. **** any and every WYSIWYG editor. Its for the truly lazy or those who can't handle the real deal and need a crutch to do anything.

I'm guessing that you use Microsoft FrontPage Express 2.0...
I'm not dissing you at all, and think your design work is good, man, but don't be ashamed to say you use a WYSIWYG editor. I'll tell you now that nearly every design house out there does... it is nearly impossible to be very productive and keep a site updated without one.

**le_saut** · 05-12-2002, 01:15 AM

I gave up on Dreamweaver and other HTML editors a while back. The last straw was when I opened up a PHP file in DW and it 'decided' to add a heap of html to it. Unwittingly saved it and uploaded to a site, whammo everything was way out.
Had to spend a few hours getting rid of all the extra td and font tags. As Negaiss says TIME IS MONEY

Also DW doesn't do find and replace in non .html/.htm files. I did a JSP site once and it kept on telling me that there were only 4 pages in the site, altho' there were 75 JSP pages and 4 html pages.

I handcode everything now, it's so much quicker (for me) and I have FULL control over everything I do.

To minimise repetitive coding I have a toolbox of common html blocks. Don;t have to type html title head etc etc for every page.
As every site I do uses PHP to some extent, I just do :

Code:

<?
include("htmlstart.php");
include("htmlbody.php");
include("htmlend.php");
?>

Within html body I might have a generic forms interface included, nav bar whatever. Makes updates very easy.
And to save any hassle with tables I always develop with Table borders on.

There is no right or wrong here. Whatever tool you find gets the job done quickly and correctly is the one for you.

For me it's handcoding using PHPEd http://www.sosysal.com [edit] URL is http://soysal.com/page4-1002.html[/edir]
Personally I find it funny that you have to develop and design the pages, and then spend time 'cleaning up' the code. Why not have it clean in the first place?

Mark Fennell said at FK 01 that FK was hand coded in entirety.

rgds

James

[Edited by JabezStone on 05-12-2002 at 02:50 PM]

**switchTone** · 05-12-2002, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by Gloomycus
I'm a notepader. **** any and every WYSIWYG editor. Its for the truly lazy or those who can't handle the real deal and need a crutch to do anything.

*stands up and applauds*

The only tools I use to create my html/xhtml and css are notepad and Opera 6.01 (for it's right click W3C validation function). I've found that it takes me just as long to code it with Dreamweaver as it does making well written and commented code.

**Ed Mack** · 05-12-2002, 07:28 AM

I always use notpad, though I do a lot of PHP. I havn't used DW MX, but when I used the previous version, it sickened me right of editors. It kept putting <p>'s everywhere that I hit enter, and the font tags it added where rediculous. It never displayed my pages right either. It would look right in DW, then I would spend 20 mins making it look right in IE.

**SubKloda** · 05-12-2002, 07:57 AM

I tend to use Dreamweaver for the initial design/prototyping phase (~50% of the time in code view though

) and then use Crimson Editor (funky notepad thing which has syntax highlighting & saves in Unix format as well) for editing afterwards...

since most of the stuff i do ends up in some form of version control software (PCVS/WinCVS) Dreamweaver just takes too long to load up..

regards,
Andy

P.S. slightly off topic but does anyone work with Java servlet/XMLC backend... isn't is such fun

!!!

**le_saut** · 05-12-2002, 09:23 AM

It can <p> off if you ask me.. check this 'code' that it spat out :

Code:

<p><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1" color="#CC6600"><b>
<font size="-2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>
<font size="-2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>
<font size="-2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>
<font size="-2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>
<font color="#FFCC00">25Mar2001<br>
</font></b></font>
</b></font></b>
</font></b></font>
<font color="#FFCC00" size="-2">
<font color="#6699FF">New Album</font>
</font><br></b></font>

There's actually only 2 pieces of text in this...now multiply this over a whole site and see how bloated the files get.

I used to code in Notepad or Wordpad. Then I found colour coding and I can't let it go... It does help with readability tho'.

James

**Gloomycus** · 05-12-2002, 01:52 PM

I'm fluent in HTML. I can code HTML just as fast as someone using a WYSIWYG editor. Plus the editors rarely do what you want anyways. They always try and stick things in that you don't want. Sure you can have initial items down, but you spend twice as long bugtesting because the editors like to **** things up.

**Ed Mack** · 05-12-2002, 03:16 PM

I have to agree, I have spent ages in the past trying to get spliced images to site right in dreamweaver, and then the same length of time again trying to get them to look right in a real browser. the text above is exactly what I've been talking about. I find it much faster and to the point to jam into notepad. Plus, I can do everything there, it's like a one stop editing suite

lol. I also have Vim...

**Eyenovation** · 05-12-2002, 03:46 PM

You know - there is an option in Dreamweaver to clean up all the un used code..

I think its 'eliminate spaghetti code'
or something..

It might be called: 'Clean up HTML'

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