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Thread: How to Handle Rejection--->> insider tips

  1. #21
    An Inconvenient Serving Size hurricaneone's Avatar
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    Well then, I'd hazard a guess that somewhere, somehow, the liquid assets needed to pay your further installments have been sucked up by outgoings, and they're looking to delay your project so as to not be liable for further payments. You know, we have contracts signed for each and every piece of work we do, big or small, and I'll tell you what - they might outline payment schedules, etc, but for real protection, there's not a whole lot you can do, contract or no. I mean, if you're a small outfit, what are you going to do? Take the big guys to court and teach them right from wrong? Both they and you know that in the off-chance you lose, you're done, down the tubes in a permanent fashion, so it's highly unlikely that the internet entrepreneur'll try it. Big risk. For you. Not them. I've thankfully had only one run-in with a customer (didn't have the same design ideas - mine good, theirs bad, of course) and we were sued for incomplete project. Had to return the money we'd been paid (50% of full) - That was a rough month.

  2. #22
    they call me the_jump... le_saut's Avatar
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    Depends on how much work you have done - close to 30%? you've been payed 30%... so down tools, say "No more project until you supply us with the content that needs to go in". Then start on another job.

    It may be that they are relying on a 3rd party to provide content for them to give to you. These things can get very political sometimes.

    James

  3. #23
    An Inconvenient Serving Size hurricaneone's Avatar
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    True, could be some production company's dragging their feet. Of course, I always jump to the worst possibility, having had all my child-like optimism beaten out of me by the grim reality of website production.

    Weekend? What weekend? - It feels like Tuesday. Demo due tomorrow ar 2pm.

    Just as a final thought, this guy's got access to the top fellas of the company - you'd figure if a 3rd party was to blame, they'd at least pass on the revised schedule.
    Maybe.

  4. #24
    An Inconvenient Serving Size hurricaneone's Avatar
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    Hey Jabezstone

    Remember at the start of this thread I was talking about the guy who wanted a site, then didn't, etc. Just to let you know (if you're interested, of course), we cut a deal with the same fella on Friday. Talk about beaten up on price! Less site, less money finally met in the middle and above the R$500 deal. It ain't enough to retire on (is it ever?), but it'll keep the proverbial wolves away from the door for at least another couple of weeks (or at least buy me some beer). He liked our presentation and work the best of those he talked to, so was prepared to go the extra. Extra being relative, of course. For big players, extra is R$3,000 - for him, considerably less.

    Cheers

  5. #25
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    thanks guys..

    the thing is im not worried about htem delaying completion it's just that it's not their main priority, resulting in them not getting content to us. im sure they ahve the intention of completing the project they just aren't being too speedy... aproaching being very slow

  6. #26
    Modding with Class JabezStone's Avatar
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    Originally posted by hurricaneone
    Hey Jabezstone

    Remember at the start of this thread I was talking about the guy who wanted a site, then didn't, etc. Just to let you know (if you're interested, of course), we cut a deal with the same fella on Friday. Talk about beaten up on price! Less site, less money finally met in the middle and above the R$500 deal. It ain't enough to retire on (is it ever?), but it'll keep the proverbial wolves away from the door for at least another couple of weeks (or at least buy me some beer). He liked our presentation and work the best of those he talked to, so was prepared to go the extra. Extra being relative, of course. For big players, extra is R$3,000 - for him, considerably less.

    Cheers
    Congratulations, Hurricane...
    Glad to hear that it fell in your favor! I appreciate everyone's willingness to talk about their successes/failures/lessons on here. Truly some "class A" members here in the Boardroom.
    Take care this week everyone... I'll be out of state for a week, and will have limited access to the Internet, but I'll try to poke in here and see what's happening.
    Until then, go make some money!

    Regards,
    Jabez

  7. #27
    Now listen heah! Mac8myPC's Avatar
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    just my bick fiddy

    I go for 50% down and 50% on delivery.. It's great incentive for clients to get information to you on time when they have invested half their cost into the project from the word go.. I also write in my contract deadlines for production and receiving info from the client, if they don't meet the deadline for getting info to me.. i'm not responsible to meet the deadline for completing the project.

    I think my biggest issue is that i'm no salesman, but usually people come to me for sites, i don't have to look for much work in my town, so by the time they are sitting down with me all we are doing is hammering out time frame and costs. I hire people out to be my face man for clients too.. i pay 10-15% usually and they have to meet with the client and get all the info as well.. works out good if you have someone who is a good salesman... which as i said, i am not

  8. #28
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    Hi i just found this topic and wanted to talk about something that happened recently to me. Me and another friend started a kind of buissness quite small about selling and reparing computers and all and making websites. Non of us is a good salesman but its not like people come to us like some of you seem to have stated so we work our way in being salesman. Anyways I met a client recently of dessert shop and she agreed in all i said about the great things about having a website but then she asked a confusing question for me: Whats the difference between paying you for making my website and having my son do my website? luckily for me i live in a city where the top 5 junior high schools teach flash, director, dreamweaver amongst other things, i didnt really know what to answer at all, I said something like quality, profesionability, confidence, image (she was also thinking about getting a geocities webspace instead of paying for hosting and domain). Problem is Ive found a lot of people like this here and being that they have no idea at all about the web they think our prices are too expensive or all in all an investment not worth making. we charge 300US$ for an HTML site including hosting and domain for one year I dont really think we are expensive at all, Iv known about webpages that have been sold for 7,000US$ here in Mexico and are not worth that amount of money at all. Our main marketing idea is to aim at small buissness but that at the same time is a great problem because of all of this and they really dont like investing that much in their buissness.

  9. #29
    Monkey Wrangler monsterfx's Avatar
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    Raven,

    Search around the boards a little more and you will find more info. here covering that problem.

    Here are some external articles that may be of use:

    http://www.scottmanning.com/articles...orawebsite.php

    http://www.alistapart.com/stories/cheaper/

    -monster.


  10. #30
    ? tonytryout's Avatar
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    Interesting thread. Actually, I have been wondering about two things:
    1- Getting a client to sign a contract -- fair point but how is this done if your client is not based in the same country as you? Do "electronic" contract work?

    2-
    If your portfolio work and previous client testimonies can vouch for your expertise, they will trust that you can perform for them too.
    What if a designer/developer don't have such luxury like portfolio or client testimnoies?

    regards
    nad

  11. #31
    President and CEO of nothing.
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    RE: Tonytrout

    1. Fax?
    2. Work for less or loose the work.

    .aaroncrunchie

  12. #32
    Oh, the joy that is being screwed over by your clients.
    just thought i'd share some of my notes on rejection and the like.

    when i first started my company, i was young and naive. i wrote up simple invoices to clients telling them roughly what they were getting, and the cost. i would spend many hours preparing mockups to show at the first meeting. i usually ended up with the job because i had no clue what my time was worth, and charged way to little. after 6 month or so, i realized that i was making less than i was getting a a bicycle mechanic the year before. i thought to myself..."this cant be right" and started raising prices.

    all of a sudden i began to get customers asking "why are you more expensive than the 15 year old highschool kid next door?"
    i would try to explain why i was "so much better" describing features, maintenance etc. this would usually work. but on some (still being naive) i would simply match the other price to get the job.

    well, enter the first deadbeat.
    not a deadbeat in the sense that i got no money, but that he totally abused my swiss cheese contract. he kept asknig for more and more stuff on the site, and if i refused.."i'm not paying then". so, i did the work.

    after a year and a half, i was sufficiently jaded and with a few "decent" clients floating my expenses, i decided to get a lot more strict. i began outlining clear contracts for exactly what the client would get. i started asking for 30% down. i gave warning that if content was not supplied in a timely manner, i was not responsible and payment was still due.
    still, on the larger jobs, i would bend the rules to get what seemed like good money. big mistake.

    now, its been over 3 years of this (i have a new company now) and i have had customers ditch even after paying 50% (this was like 7 grand too, and i managed to sue successfully), had 1 client take a year to supply content, and one take me for a ride on about 50k worth of consulting and architecture layout, then go to another company for the site.

    so, what now? new company, new rules.
    1. consulting fees if i am going to lay out architecture or do mock-ups. (a lot of whining here, but that usually a sign that they are a bad client anyway)
    2. 50% down (surprisingly this seems to be ok with most)
    3. iron clad contracts. outline exact (down to the last file) deliverables. outline timeline (and penalties if THEY hold it up). outline costs of "overtime" if they ad features mid project. state explicitley that if they decide they dont want something, after the specified timeline, they still have to pay.
    4. state explicitely their licence on YOUR work. it is YOUR work unless you sell it outright. i generaly grant a license to use my code in a specific application(website). just because they can see the code, does not mean it's open source and free. this is much easier to do with flash.
    5. dont be afraid to tell a client to piss off if they are trying to screw you. make yourself look "in demand" by saying you dont need their B.S. you'd be surprised how many come back to you after realising the "other guy" was not worth the money.

    anyway, thats my 2 cents
    hope you enjoyed

    later
    terence krueger

  13. #33
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    I've been screwed for money, whilst working at a company, doing flash.
    When I started there I had little experience, so fair enough I wasn't worth much.
    But by the time I left there, I alone had earned them well over 25K AUD.. Yet I got to see very little of it.

    Fortunately now im out and working on my own.
    Things are a little slow, but its better than working for a fat bastard and getting paid pittence

    re: remote correpsondence.
    How legally binding is email?
    I mean, I think a fax is needed atleast for the clients signature and say, a receipt.
    But if I go and use email for my quote, and other minor but necessary correspondence, will it come back to bite me on the ass?

    Another thing, is clients that seem to run away..
    I thought I had a job secured recently, and I forwarded a sheet of questions that help me establish a quote, mostly yes/no questions, but there is quite a few of them and they are very "to the point."
    Could I have possibly scared them away with this?
    Although I'd prefer them screw me around and run away befor I do any real work on the project.

  14. #34
    President and CEO of nothing.
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    With the new flash decompilers how do you go about 'copywriting' your code? Honestly just about every language has a decompiler for it...and really how do you keep intellectual rights to something like that unless it is some revolutionary new sort method or something? Honestly it's scary but I don't think you would have much look if you were a guy in Canada suing a guy in Mexico, or a guy in the States suing a guy in the UK for code infringement...What kind of court would even handle these situations and have jurisdiction in both places?

    But thanks for the posts everyone, much appreciated to many.

    .aaroncrunchie

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