Flash critic to coach Macromedia (news.com)

[octothorp]

I'm really suprised by Macromedia. You'd think they'd have a better understanding of their audience. This is like get Roger Ebert to write a best practices for creating a hollywood movie. I would have been much more impressed if they got someone like Edward Tufte to draw up some flash usability guidelines. Not only is Tufte a brilliant usability expert (though he does tend to be print-based), everything he designs is freakin' gorgeous, the exact opposite of Neilsen. And as a sculptor, Tufte certainly understands the value of art in design. Which makes me wonder, what usability experts do other flashkit members look up to?

Back when I was in a technical communications program, I did some user testing on about five different sites, with a random sampling of ten different users who ranked everywhere from Internet novices to experts. And of the sites I tested, the one that every single person rated as least usable was useit. People hated the lack of any sort of visual hierarchy, they had no idea where to click or what to do. They hated the scrolling, and they hated the two-column layout. When I asked the users if they appreciated the fast loading times of the site, one user responded, 'When I sit on the toilet, no matter how long it takes it's still crap.' Which, though vulgar, is my favorite comment about useit.

Problem with design is that it's easy to point out flaws in other people's work. Look at Vincent Flanders' Web Pages that Suck; anybody could write that book. On the other hand, getting agreement about what constitutes good design is much more difficult. Usability in my mind always comes down to audience and content. Neilsen likes to believe that if something is on the Internet, the entire population of Internet users is the target audience (which makes about as much sense as saying, 'if a book is in a library, then all library users must be that book's target audience). As far as content goes, the form has to fit the information. To use one form for all information (as Neilsen does) is to say that all information is inherently the same. Personally, I don't believe that it is. Going back to MacLuhan, the 'media is the message' is an overused but none-the-less true statement, and the Internet adaptation might be something like 'the interface is the content.'

I think erova's point is very valid about how a lot of the sites posted on flashkit could use some usability tweaking. Flash is probably going through the same phase right now that HTML went through about 7 years ago. There's a lot of flash design out there right now that appeals only to other flash developers. Which isn't a problem.

One of my key philosophies is that as information developers, we have a responsibility not only to convey information, but to expand users' cognitive skills, rather than always reducing our work to the lowest common denominator. If usability experts of the past had reduced themselves to the lowest common denominator, we wouldn't have the mouse, the GUI, or the Internet.

Obviously, any mention of Neilsen gets me as riled up as the next developer. So I'll shut up now and let the next person have their turn.

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[tanzu]

well, i read his book, and it contains some good information. But he also wrote about your target audience. I think if you did some research, and you see you aim for the younger audience, then a site in flash would be USABLE (for the target!). If you are making a site for a house for elderly people, then it's another story

[serpent star]

Originally posted by octothorp

People hated the lack of any sort of visual hierarchy, they had no idea where to click or what to do. They hated the scrolling, and they hated the two-column layout.

Man, that hits the nail on the head when it comes to useability. The "visual hierarchy" is what we as "Designers" are paid to develop and emphasize. Next to content, I would have to rank that inplementation as the most important aspects of web design. The ability to direct your targeted users to the most important features in a page is the design tool that I feel Neilsen is most afraid of, because this is exactly an ability that he lacks. If people figured out the importance of visual hierarchy, he would probably be out of a job.

I have always hated that page and your thread finally made me understand why.

nice post octo.

[le_saut]

Nielsen likes to believe that if something is on the Internet, the entire population of Internet users is the target audience (which makes about as much sense as saying, 'if a book is in a library, then all library users must be that book's target audience).

That's a great insight there....if somebody doesn't like your site then they are free to go an look for content they are interested in. I personally wouldn't even look at a Mills & Boon novel for instance.

Therefore, the difference here between the book and the web is that you can ignore books from a distance, but you will always see the home-page for a web, before deciding on it's usefulness.


One of things to look out for here is when a member of your target audience has agrievances about your presentation...then you may have to take measures.


regds

James


ohh and have a look here : http://www.useit.com.au

[iwpro]

I don't see how this guy can be a usability expert, definitely not a guru, this is the new millennium, and in this new age of ours we don't use static text, or columns of text and links that are in my opinion, (and yes I AM A USABILITY GURU), are difficult to navigate because everything is all squashed into one area.

People don't like to read unless they have to, in other words unless they have found the information they are looking for to read. I don't have to like to read every single line of text on Jacobs page just to find out that there is no useful information on his site at all. I feel I was robbed of the 5 - 10 minutes it took me to realize I just wasted my valuable time.

As far as Macromedia goes, well they are what they are, a corporate conglomerate, and they will do anything to make the extra bucks. If this is what they think is going to pull in the extra money so be it, but I don't see any seasoned and experienced flash developer following this lunatics advice as to what is right or wrong based on his opinion. You want usability and functionality Macromedia? Contract some independent design/developers to get the content out there and focus groups and get feedback to see what works. Don't put all your bread in one dirty, moldy, corrupt money hungry basket.

I personally think there are much better ways to create design guidelines and standards, but really, do you plan to enforce these guidelines by suing every individual that does not conform to them? Including the use of these guidelines in the User License? If the creation of design guidelines entails the end result of enforcing them, then that in turn will take so much away from such a good product, and in the long run cost more dough and a loss of respect as well as a loss of user base.

Flash = 100% good, depending on it's intended use. does that mean HTML = 99% bad as well, cause there are definitely more HTML web pages that are worse than the amount of flash pages.

People, get over Jacob, I have! If Macromedia plans to enforce these guidelines by offering certification by learning these guidelines, I would be interested in seeing how many flash designers apply. I am sure the ones that do, will be the ones who are unaware of the flash world and are pretty much newbies to the application.

http://www.u4c.com | http://www.ipro.com
webmaster@iwpro.com

[murple]

LoL, I wonder how many users will start bouncing over to SVG if they manage to start doing that enforcement

[Ed Mack]

Do you think they could stop everybody making childish music? I think it's a bit silly to try to get Flash designers to be more standard compliant and follow rules. I konw that would just encourage me to make somthing stupid.

And, as others have said useit.com is a awful site. I use 100% html, and I don't think it looks as bad. At least I can navigate my site.

http://www.edmack.com/flash/tuts

[webmonkeymon]

http://www.geocities.com/jakob_nielsen_is_boring

This game says it all!!!

[enemem]

Originally posted by webmonkeymon
http://www.geocities.com/jakob_nielsen_is_boring

This game says it all!!!

yes, it does it is hard to navigate, displays unstructured information, has poor graphics, inadequate user feedback...

- n.

[hurricaneone]

By maligning Flash, it is almost as if he was planning all along to be hired by MM in this 'consultative' role - what better than to create a conflict, yet not be seen as an agressor, rather simply as one who wants the best for the masses, then after the war has been beaten to death, join your previous foe to work together for peace and harmony.

From what I've read, about and by Nielsen (that's a fair amount over the past couple of months), this guy has a talent, but it's not analyzing site usability. More, he likes to poke a stick into any available wasps nest to promote a reaction, creating a perpetual cycle which keeps his relatively worthless, self-important name in the top lines of site design articles. The Flash developer community is, I've come to appreciate, is an ardent environment which does not take kindly to criticism of its primary creative tool from a 'guru' who has seemingly yet to tween his first symbol. Nielsen then, recognizing this targets' rabid pro-Flash sentiment, knows that provoking a reaction will, ant-like, send the Flashers en-masse into a desperate fight against the intruder.

[trionik]

when someone get in your path ... Buy him ....


And that's waht macromedia did... Has for nielsen Is a freak that use Babyboomer technology stupidity for is own interest.. Let say is a "charlatan"... But nielsen time as already come to an end .. Babyboomer will soon be retired and a complete new world will be open to our young and creative mind ..

So long Nielsen i'll see you when black and white tv is back...

What i want from a web site is information or entertainment whats around the information is what make me thrust the content of the site ... Useit.com look for me as a website that any looser can do ... So the information it contains as no credibility to me...


[Edited by trionik on 06-10-2002 at 11:40 AM]

[JabezStone]

As a company, Macromedia has posted a recent loss financially, so I think it is ridiculous to think that they are playing games by hiring Nielson.
They can't afford the cost of hiring Nielson just to shut him up or make a statement.
I think Macromedia genuinely wants to improve the use of their product and by-products so it will further its use in real-world corporate environments.
Surely, they are less interested in teaching the teenage software pirate how to make his Clan site more usable, and more interested in creating wide acceptance in the corporate arena... both with the Talent and Name of Jakob Nielson.
I know Nielson is an arrogant bad-fashion-statement with ugly hair and a failable website, but his knowledge is incredible.
I'd say this is a good move by Macromedia.

[erova]

jabez--

thanks for providing some insight that macromedia is bringing neilsen on not to quiet him or to irritate flash diletantes hanging around Flashkit, but to show to the corporate world (that means the people who buy Flash and who pay design/development firms to build Flash apps) that Flash is much more than *Skip Intros* that only annoy, not amaze, users.

Neilsen doesn't claim that the web is no place for art, rather, he's saying there's no need for art in an e-commerce site with a sole purpose to sell me a book or an airline ticket.

Bringing on a heavyweight like Neilsen is Macromedia telling its shareholders and potential customers that it realizes Flash has a bad rap throughout the Corporate stuffed shirt IT world, and it wants to address these concerns by bringing on the biggest name in the business.

And for the guy who asked for our personal usability gurus, i've met with and heeded the advice of Steve Krug, author of *Don't Make Me Think*, though he's really more a web usability guru, not especially flash usability.

think of the new IBM commercial where an IT guy is talking to his old gray haired boss, trying to pitch something "cool". the boss gets irate, saying that cool is why his son needs new shoes every six months, and that cool is why his daughter has green hair. when the IT guy tells him that what is cool will save the company millions of dollars, then the old boss listens.

the old boss here may be familiar with neilsen, and thinks that flash is only for animation and skip intros, whereas now the IT guy can say, nope, read this neilsen authored white paper, and you'll understand why we SHOULD use flash.

[JabezStone]

erova~

Exactly... well put words.
I've long been a subscriber to Nielson's "alertbox" newsletter and a fan of usability. While Nielson himself turns me off, usability and user interaction have both intrigued me and helped me win contracts over other developers.
Macromedia's pulling Nielson on board is telling the corporate suits that there is indeed room for Flash in their business plan. This eqates to more revenue for the Flash-savvy developer.

[hurricaneone]

OK, JabezStone, I was letting it go but no more. As a conspiracy theory naysayer, it is far from 'ridiculous' to think that MM bought off Nielsen. OK. So what that they posted a quarter loss? So what exactly doea that mean? No new Jag for the CEO's missus? You don't think at all that whatever it costs would be worth bringing Nielsen over to MM so his overused jaw can flap MM-speak, Monty Python style? And anyway, how much can that self-important windbag actually cost in a consultative role. We're not talking moon shot money here.

Maybe they won't even give him anything to do. Just dump him in a windowless office and lock the door. Do us all a favor. You know, the world was still spinning before I heard his ranting, and it'll still be spinning long after he shall rant no more.

One more thing. If any designer worth their justice does not at least try to make sites (Flash or otherwise) easy to use, then why would they be called designers. Administrative staff and lawyers are usually the ones that make things difficult to understand, so perhaps these overly complex designers should consider career moves.

[JabezStone]

Originally posted by hurricaneone
OK, JabezStone, I was letting it go but no more...

What is the deal here? Whatever is eating at you, I wish you would count to ten and cool down a bit. Everyone's entitled to an opinion here, and I respect yours.
Sheesh!

[erova]

jabez--

one step forward, two unlabeled, unconventional, unpaid steps back, huh?

[JabezStone]

Originally posted by erova
jabez--

one step forward, two unlabeled, unconventional, unpaid steps back, huh?

I hate stepping backwards.
(BTW, just checked out your site... nice work, Chris)

-Jay

[johnie]

I would have hired Flanders over Nielson... some of Nielson's Ideas aren't bad... his website is pretty bad thougth.

Everyone could do better by trying to improve usability. There is no harm done by MM hiring Nielson.

[OddDog]

gosh a lot of people are short sighted here. JN has a point. And he was the first to successfully get his point across. Usability is important.

Those that make a living out this realise that cutting edge inovative stuff comes along rarely, and more often than not cannot pay the mortgage.

This is a business, not art school. Learn to talk like businessmen and you to will be able to pay the mortgage.

So JN site is not nice or usable, who cares. Learn the talk. Walk the walk. Then later you can do the egipician.