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  1. #21
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    This is a very useful thread, thanx to all. I have a problem, maybe someone can shed some light on it.

    In some article I read on search engine submission, it said not to make websites frames-based. The article did not explain why or what happens if you do. But here's a funny thing: I have manually submitted a pair of sites to a number of the main (free) search engines over the past six months, and the frames-based one is not showing up, but the non-frames based site appears on a couple of the search engines. So perhaps the advice was correct. But why? And is there any way of overcoming the problem? Has anyone else experienced this? If you don't think frames are the problem, has anyone got any other ideas why it's not showing up? (Yes, I have the metatags in place!)


  2. #22
    Moderator RazoRmedia's Avatar
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    some spiders can read frames, some do no. a way around this is to make sure you always have <noframes> content. Fill this with relevant content, keywords and lots of links to individual unframed pages and your site will be spidered.

    I used to have a framed site and nearly all the frames were listed but the problem is when my navigation frame was very popular and google was linking to it directly from its search pages. Users looking for my content were presented with a list of links that would all then open up in new windows as the 'main' window was present.

    There is a javascript function to automatically load the frameset when a frame is loaded if loaded on its own.


    Hope this helps

  3. #23
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    heh.

    Good point RazoR.
    What spiders really want to see is index.html
    ...or so I find.

    with some trickery, you can get a PHP site to look just like a plain ol' html site

    this:
    http://www.appraisalbank.com/appraisers/index.html

    and this:
    http://www.appraisalbank.com/apprais...page.extension

    Are both the same page, since in reality, there is no page.

    I found in dynamic sites that spiders really like index.html, but I did see hit logs from someone/thing at yahoo playing my game... they were sending me requests for
    index.asp, index.php, index.jsp and what have you.
    I think they were checking me out because that particular site (not the one linked) was a test bed for this stuff we're talking about in this thread and I think yahoo didn't like the fact that a lil itsy bitsy website had over 500 pages indexed within 3 weeks... and there was only say, 10 pages of actual content, the rest was all 'spider candy', just <h1-5> tags and random keywords thrown into paragraphs and links links links to randomly generated page names.

    Needless to say the site got banned and I had to resubmit.
    (Getting banned is far from anything lasting, you just have to start submitting from scratch with no rank)

    So I try to keep a limit on how many pages a site will generate and use a "robots noindex, follow" in the meta tags on stuff they don't need to be storing to keep everyone happy.
    Guess it's like anything else, if you're gonna be tricky, be responsible with it and respect thy almighty search engines database.




  4. #24
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    Post engines

    Thanks you for being so generous to share with us your knoledge.

    As I live and work in Argentina I wonder if it works the same way for our local search engines. By the other hand if I want to post my website (in spanish) in Google or Yahoo should I do something different than you do?

  5. #25
    Moderator RazoRmedia's Avatar
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    country specific search engines normally go on domains and not language. a UK search engine will have the ability to simply search sites ending in '.co.uk'.

    Heres more information on this.

  6. #26
    Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk! Hey Moe... serpent star's Avatar
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    hey guys,

    Can someone share a couple of reasons why anyone would want to use this string. <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex, nofollow"> I would think that the more pages indexed and links followed the better. What am I missing?

    Thanks,
    Mat

  7. #27
    Originally posted by RazoRmedia
    You cannot beat web position gold for its reporting capabilities and its submission procedures although I found it too be much better if I submitted manually too.
    I don't mind saying that I make pretty damn good web sites, but I suck when it comes to getting search engines to notice them. This discussion is fantastic.

    I looked into Web Position Gold, and it looks great, but of course it's for the PC. Does anybody know of a similar app for the Mac?

    Thanks.

  8. #28
    Moderator RazoRmedia's Avatar
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    Originally posted by serpent star
    hey guys,

    Can someone share a couple of reasons why anyone would want to use this string. <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex, nofollow"> I would think that the more pages indexed and links followed the better. What am I missing?

    Thanks,
    Mat
    a members login section
    an intranet / extranet
    a private url
    stats pages

    Basically its any page that you don't want indexed

  9. #29
    Moderator RazoRmedia's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mcinnes
    Originally posted by RazoRmedia
    You cannot beat web position gold for its reporting capabilities and its submission procedures although I found it too be much better if I submitted manually too.
    I don't mind saying that I make pretty damn good web sites, but I suck when it comes to getting search engines to notice them. This discussion is fantastic.

    I looked into Web Position Gold, and it looks great, but of course it's for the PC. Does anybody know of a similar app for the Mac?

    Thanks.
    web position gold can run on an mac within a pc emulator
    click here for details

    Theres also some web based search engine tools that do roughly the same. One of these is here.

    heres a better list

    theres tools out there that are free to use which are okay really but don't really update as much as they need to. I used to use http://www.submitit.com which was relatively cheap (30 for 10 url's) but this seems to be more expensive now.

    If there is enough response to this thread, I may write a tutorial or two about search engine reporting and submitting.

  10. #30
    Originally posted by LeeHK
    This is a very useful thread, thanx to all. I have a problem, maybe someone can shed some light on it.

    In some article I read on search engine submission, it said not to make websites frames-based. The article did not explain why or what happens if you do. But here's a funny thing: I have manually submitted a pair of sites to a number of the main (free) search engines over the past six months, and the frames-based one is not showing up, but the non-frames based site appears on a couple of the search engines. So perhaps the advice was correct. But why? And is there any way of overcoming the problem? Has anyone else experienced this? If you don't think frames are the problem, has anyone got any other ideas why it's not showing up? (Yes, I have the metatags in place!)



    I recently emailed Google about frames based sites and this was their reply:

    Google does support frames to the extent that it can. Frames tend to cause
    problems with search engines, bookmarks, emailing links, history and so
    on, because frames don't correspond to the conceptual model of the web
    (every page corresponds to a URL). With Google, if a user's query matches
    the site as a whole, we will return the frame set. If the user's query
    matches an individual page on the site, we return that page. That
    individual page is not displayed in a frame -- because there may be no
    frame set corresponding to that page.

    If you are concerned with the description of your site as seen by search
    engines, please read "Search Engines and Frames" at
    http://www.searchenginewatch.com/webmasters/frames.html ...it describes
    the use of the 'NoFrames' tag, which is used to provide alternate content.
    If, instead of providing alternate content, you use wording such as "This
    site requires the use of frames" or "Upgrade your browser", then you are
    excluding both search engines and people who use browsers with frames
    turned off. (For example, audio web browsers, such as those used in
    automobiles and by the visually impaired, typically do not deal with such
    frames, which are a visual mechanism.) You can also read about NoFrames in
    the HTML standard here:
    http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/pres...es.html#h-16.4 .

    Regards,
    The Google Team


    Hope this helps.

  11. #31
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    Re: Total Newbie Here!

    I love this site:
    http://searchenginewatch.com/


    Originally posted by angiedarrah
    I am so excited this post is avilable for total newies in the search engine submission world. But I must admit, it is all a little overwhelming. Could anyone recommend a good place to start learning? (Other than this great post, of course.) Are there any links designed for beginners?

    I had no idea there was so much to all this.

    Thanks to everyone for making this info available.

  12. #32
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    How to Get FLASH Indexed

    Read this cool article on site pro news thought it is worth sharing, basicly it says the way to get flash Indexed
    In the Search Engines is to use Z order with html pages under flash pages see example http://www.academywebspecialists.com...ple-popup.html
    the full article and source code
    http://www.academywebspecialists.com...02.html#nobles

  13. #33
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    More information on Search Engines

    Originally posted by oftenusa
    I recently tried to do manual submissions to search engines and had a very frustrating experience. I read something that said that a vast majority of internet users find websites through only 10 or so search engines, which makes sense. When I tried to go to those search engines I found they cost money or don't even take submissions! I found a lot of search engines get their content from a handful of distributors. In all cases I tried to submit to the search engine rather than the content provider but this didn't happen very often.

    Here is a list of the ones I successfully submitted to:
    Google
    Lycos
    Yahoo
    Altavista

    AOLsearch - via Open Directory (dmoz.org)
    About - I had to send an email to the guide
    Ah-ha

    Search.com/Snap
    AllTheWeb
    National Directory

    I'm interested if other people have had the same experience and if there is something I'm missing! My feeling after the experience was pretty close to what people have said already... Build your site to be favorable to search engines, get other websites to link to yours and let the content do the work in spreading the word. Sound good?!
    Here are a couple of links that graphically show the relationships of search engines.
    http://caprocktechnology.com/searchrelations.html
    http://www.bruceclay.com/searchenginechart.pdf

    It can be confusing. Do not be sucked into any of the scams that try to submit your site to "100's" or "1000's" of sites. It will backfire on you and fill your mailbox with spam for years to come.

  14. #34
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    Re: How to Get FLASH Indexed

    Originally posted by benwalsh
    Read this cool article on site pro news thought it is worth sharing, basicly it says the way to get flash Indexed
    In the Search Engines is to use Z order with html pages under flash pages see example http://www.academywebspecialists.com...ple-popup.html
    the full article and source code
    http://www.academywebspecialists.com...02.html#nobles
    This is a "trick" to get listed. It will be tolerated for a while, but just like keyword tags, search engines will begin putting less weight on z-order content, because "spamdexers" (as they are called) will abuse this and put in irrelevent content just to get a position.

    A more stable way is to develop a small paragraph about your site on your homepage that describes what you are and containing the keywords that you are trying to get listed for. That is what I did for one of my clients (http://outerwearusa.com) Before they came to me, they simply had the flash intro and graphical links at the bottoms. The search engines didn't read anything from the page. We simple gave the spiders something to look at and know what the page was about and a way to get around in it.

    I have seen some hints that MX will allow some way to provide text for search engiens, but I haven't researched it completely.

    Does anyone else know what I'm talking about?

  15. #35
    Senior Member Black_phoenix's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RazoRmedia
    some spiders can read frames, some do no. a way around this is to make sure you always have <noframes> content. Fill this with relevant content, keywords and lots of links to individual unframed pages and your site will be spidered.

    I used to have a framed site and nearly all the frames were listed but the problem is when my navigation frame was very popular and google was linking to it directly from its search pages. Users looking for my content were presented with a list of links that would all then open up in new windows as the 'main' window was present.

    There is a javascript function to automatically load the frameset when a frame is loaded if loaded on its own.


    Hope this helps
    what an excellent link, i never knew u could do that

    thx
    bp

  16. #36
    Post Mo' Bills chook's Avatar
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    I had about 4 or 5 questions when this thread came up but not anymore!

    Thanks lOungebOy and Razormedia for your detailed insight on this topic.

    Your time and knowledge is much appreciated.

  17. #37
    Moderator RazoRmedia's Avatar
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    no problems, thanks for the praise

  18. #38
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    spiders following dynamic links

    Originally posted by RazoRmedia
    Originally posted by gilmore1974
    What about data driven web sites?
    spiders will not follow anything after a '?' in a URL (most of the time);

    therefore

    http://www.whatever.com/default.php

    is fine whereas

    http://www.whatever.com/default.php?id=6&name=bruce

    won't be followed by a spider

    I have read the you can get the spider to follow your dynamic pages by changing a setting in the server to show ? and & as /. I know this is what Amazon.com has done. You never see a & or ? in their urls, just /.

    Does anyone know what setting I'm talking about?

  19. #39
    Moderator RazoRmedia's Avatar
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    Re: spiders following dynamic links

    Originally posted by jrader

    Does anyone know what setting I'm talking about?
    I believe I do

    I have never seen that before, nice one.

  20. #40
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    I knew keeping an eye on this thread would be beneficial

    I actually know a fair bit about search engine submission now. Thanks a million guys.


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