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Thread: Your experience using video....

  1. #1
    Flash Video Moderator Wheels's Avatar
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    Alright! A video section. CNO, how about an FAQ on top of the thread (seem's like we always have to ask on new forum).

    I would make a suggestion that we keep things in check, competing software companiies had a heyday on the Mac and Standalone forums, both always claiming they alone had the solution to someone's problem).

    Anyway,

    I'm looking for opinions, and I preface this string by saying I''ve read every thread here regarding this issue - so yes, I know what Wild Form Flix is - and I'm already considering using it.

    That said, I respectfully request your opinion on this subject - unless you work for a software company that sells a Flash video solutions. (No offense Jonathan - but I'm looking for the opinion's of those who have used your software).

    If you've used MX, Sorenson Spark Pro and Flix - please share your experience.

    I'm building an MX interface, have a dozen different video clips (no voice sync, 1 to 10 meg's each) and seem to have three options.

    1. Use QuickTime pop-ups (I don't care much for JS pop-ups and it means two plugins to see the content)

    2. Use Streaming loadMovieNum() in MX (hard to preload when using Sorenson .swf's alone, but I'd like the client to be able to create their own .swf's)

    3. Using Flix (Not sure, everything I've read about it here and at were-here is from the company's board surfer - who does give good advice on many subjects).

    If you've used any or all of these methods I'd love to hear what comprimises you've come across, or any method for controlling the preload of a _root.level loaded movie. I'm just about to finish up my current project, but have yet to decide on the delivery method for the video - although I have experimented with all and can easily impliment any of them.

    Thanks,

    5G

  2. #2
    Arckid - Curving the Web
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    I also played much with video ...

    I want to know something more from your side ...

    its a projector? is so then on Windows/Mac?

  3. #3
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    mx 'in video

    i have been using flash mx video on a few differnt projects.
    A few issues, one being the memary error that you get on a mac when you try and import large video. perhaps there is a fix for this that i have not pickeed up on though. At the moment am testing sorenson squeeze and finding that pretty good, though of course as you point out, there are issues as you cant script that the way you would a video created in mx. am playing around with how i control the sorenson .swf from the timeline.
    Have found the synch probems you get with flash mx a problem, that is with files longer than 1 or 2 minutes.
    Sorensen squeeze doesnt seem to have the same problem.
    And yes, preloading those movies is a big of a hassle too.
    still working on the best procedure for that. Am about the try just exporting a flv file then bringin that in to add the actionscript and preloaders, but again as you point out that is no good for clients that want to make there own .swf
    All in all though the compression is pretty fine, i always start with either a straight DV file from Final Cut pro or a QT compressed with sorenson 3. I know that peole that have begun with files that are already compressed with
    other compression codecs have had .swf file size problems.
    Am about to use flashmx and sorenson squeeze for a 12 week mini online doco series. compressing the movies cut in FCP, and then comressed with sorenson, so far so good.
    do you have any specific queries.
    Anyway, enough of a rave.
    Back to the grind

    ss

  4. #4
    Flash Video Moderator Wheels's Avatar
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    I would like to have the option of burning this to a projector, but right now it will be web delivered.

    I found Sorenson Sqeeze for MX (w/Spark Pro) to have excellent compression, noticeably smaller file sizes. Beginning with uncompressed video is a priority here.

    The biggest problem seems to be preloading and positioning, I can't seem to find a way to position a loaded .swf??

    It looks like for now I'll have to process the video for the client, add the preloader and positon by importing the Sqeeze .swf then exporting again.

    5G

  5. #5
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    positioning is fine if you are loading into a target movie clip.
    if you are loading into a level you can position using
    _x and _y properties, but u have to do it after the clip
    is loaded.
    i have been using it for cds, but you do run into the audio synch prob when going for bigger and longer files.
    from my understianding you dont want to reimport the sqeeze swf, cos that is more compression. but if you import as a flv file, i belive that mx retains the compression settings,.
    that is compress with sorenson but to a flv file with is them imported into mx.

  6. #6
    Flash Video Moderator Wheels's Avatar
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    Thanks secondsign,

    Just wondering, what actionScript are you using to reposition?

    _level1._x=100; or something like that?

    Also, have you done standalone for OSX?

    As far as your memory issue on the Mac, you must be on os 9? If so, increase the memory for the Flash program (command -i, memory) and/or increase your virtual memory under "control panels, memory". Or are you on OSX? How big are the files?

    5G
    [Edited by Wheels on 08-08-2002 at 12:10 AM]

  7. #7
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    In the middle of next week we are posting a 900 x 430 flash video that streams at "comparably" very low bit rates, I think lower than any DV codec will be able get it without sacrificing picture quality. This was done using Simulated Video and yes we do have a product that we sell but you dont have to buy it its not our main business.

    Simulated video is a sequence of images on the Flash timeline. Because its actually a part of the movie you have full control beyond any other method period. Its also compatable with Flash 4 and up so you dont have the compatability issues like you do with mx or the other DV codecs.

    As for other peoples view points- 1000 on-line viewrers polled voted "SV" 82% as good as the newest dv codecs. That was in December of last year. This new demo blows anything we have ever seen away and its the first of a series of three. This one demonstrates screen sectioning, interaction with vector elements and other video clips, using different size video, different fps, and animating across the stage all within the same movie and darn its all done in Flash.

    Our product just modifies the end file so the flash player can play it back. As far as Flix, if you need pro quality video then you are not going to be happy with flix. If you need an automated solution that is easy to use then use flix.

    Cheers for now, next week I will post in this new cool video forum the link where the new demo video will be located.

    Jorge Pease
    Manta Productions.com, inc.

  8. #8
    Flash Video Moderator Wheels's Avatar
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    Well that's certain to get a response from the guys at Flix, but that's why I worded this thread the way I did. Too many times I click on subject looking for some insight and the only response is from a software representative. I'm glad they are here, helping out - but often nobody else responds because they think the problem has been solved.

    So, let's see it. I'm ready to try anything once, twice if it works. I'm not concerned with easy, nothing is ever easy. It's always a matter of digging a little deeper to get what you really want out of Flash.

    I look forward to seeing what you have.

    5G
    [Edited by Wheels on 08-10-2002 at 11:24 AM]

  9. #9
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    I've used both Flix and Squeeze. I like Squeeze much better. I like the easy interface and got great results. Also, there was no easy way to batch using flix, something that 's a snap to do in Squeeze. Perhaps Flix has updated this huge drawback to it's product by now, I don't know. But for my money, Squeeze is the best.

  10. #10
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    Hi again,

    here is the link to our large screen flash video demo. It's a bit rough as we made some mistakes in the shoot (we lost our location and had to build the set digitally, our nightmare).

    file size is 4 MB and it lasts 60 seconds so even slow 300kbps cable and dsl wont have to wait that long. Try to remember however that video of this size requires a fairly powerfull computer 450mhz or better would be best.

    This is Flash 4 encoded for best compatability.

    enjoy it

    http://www.mantaproductions.com/fullscreen


    jp

  11. #11
    Wildform Moderator
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    Well, since people are talking about us, I figured I would chime in (sorry Wheels, but maybe you have a question I can answer for you).

    I just want to point out that Flix is the only software available that will output a high quality MX video SWF with both 1-pass and 2-pass VBR, as well as a Flash 3-6 video SWF (with memory management) that plays in any Flash Player version 3-6. Additionally, Flix is the only software that will convert standard video into vector video.

    Kar, I am a bit confused by your comment that there was "no easy way to batch using flix". We have a drag and drop interface that allows you to batch encode an unlimited number of files and automatically adjust file names.

    And as for Manta Productions, I would just like to point out that they provide custom Flash development services, not Flash video encoding software.

    jb

    http://www.wildform.com

    "I found in all my testing, and reported, that Flix definitely does a much better job than Squeeze in quality and file size. You definitely have a great product there."
    -- Jen deHaan, Flash MX Bible contributor

  12. #12
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    When I tried Flix a while back, the only way to batch was by typing some long string of commands into the c:> prompt. Perhaps that was a very early version or only the trial version. I'm not sure. I did state that Flix may have changed this feature by now. I wasn't trying to bash the product....just give my experience using it.

    -kar-

  13. #13
    Wildform Moderator
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    Hi.
    We've had batch for a long time now.
    Check it out. There's a free demo.
    jb

  14. #14
    Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Jonathan_B


    And as for Manta Productions, I would just like to point out that they provide custom Flash development services, not Flash video encoding software.

    Actually we do provide software Jonathan we just dont mention it every time we make a post. After all the goal of the people looking into video is to find the solution that works best for them. Having a moderator commercializing his product continuously is a bit out of line wouldnt you say.

  15. #15
    Wildform Moderator
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    Do you have a demo of it? I'd love to check it out.
    jb

  16. #16
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    We dont have free demos. The software (as I mentioned above is memory management software). Our video is Flash and you just got me to thinking, it would be really interesting if an article was done on all the possible solutions for swf video including mx video.

    We could use one control clip and then another seperate clip to demonstrate as clearly as possible the pros and cons of each approach and overall potential for swf video on the net. I think it would be an excellent way to educate the flash world as to the best option for a particular use in the swf video world.

    A point system that includes all standard concerns such as compatability, file size, quality, interactive capability, ease of use, etc etc... plus the specific advantages each product offers, to be fair and educational would be cool and then we could post the results so flashkit members can make side by side comparisons for themselves.

    Whats everybody think? I think it would be great!!


    Jp
    Manta Productions


  17. #17
    Flash Video Moderator Wheels's Avatar
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    Excellent suggestion Whiterabbit,

    That's why I started this thread. This forum is here to share our knowledge and save each other the frustration of having to reinvent every time there is a complicated solution to a common problem(s).

    I was planning on starting an unofficial FAQ as well, but I think comparison of methods is just as crucial to development. Also, helping each other finish scripts that don't seem to do everything they should - like the one below.

    This is a method I am using to load and repostion a .swf file created with Spark (thus defaulting the movie to 0,0):

    video is a MC w/button actions dynamically assigned.
    <i>
    _root.video.onEnterFrame = function() {
    _level6000._x = 175;
    _level6000._y = 100;
    };
    //delete this.onEnterFrame - not solved yet (conditionals don't seem to work, may do a set inteval).

    _root.video.onPress = function() {
    loadMovieNum("video/test.swf", 6000);
    };</i>

    <b>Solved, see unofficial FAQ:</b> http://board.flashkit.com/board/show...hreadid=356715

    5G
    [Edited by Wheels on 08-15-2002 at 02:35 PM]

  18. #18
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    Okay well I am in, as proponents of Flash video, we can definately use an objective comparison that extends even out to include traditional encoding methods such as QT WM and Real . Streaming content providers have little use for swf video but I would say that for on demand P2P scenarios swf video has some very strong points and probably a huge market potential. Almost all our customers we design sites for ask us for video, in fact we are about to do some cool boxing video workouts for one of our clients. I bet its the same for alot of flash developers.

    I can contribute substancially in the area of SV. If the swf video guys (flix, at least but maybe also swideo.com, livetronix.com, vid2swf, flashants.com, turbine and whatever others) are in, then I can see about getting some of the guidelines used in the traditional streaming codecs and we can all contribute as to which guidelines can apply or add new parameters as needed and we can even take it a step further and include the dv codec comparison results from streamingmedia.com.

    Then all we need are a couple of contril clips. Maybe an independent film maker can contribute a good movie trailer. Instead of bumbling around with claims that may or not be substanciated we can lay it out on the line and get some conclusive results.

    In the past we have conducted various surveys. I think this would be a great opportunity to integrate a little viewer poll. I wonder if Flashkit would be interested in supporting this. Most of the other codec comparisons I have seen get you do download the file so you can view it locally, that might not be a bad idea either.

    Lets see first if Jonathan from flix is in and in the meantime I will contact the other guys who have swf conversion softwares and see if I can start tracking down some relevant info.


  19. #19
    Flash Video Moderator Wheels's Avatar
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    I think this would be extremely helpful to many designers.

    I think the time has come where every site will have some kind of video - real or simulated. Broadband is speading faster than the West Nile virus, thus the internet is finally opening up to it's real potential for interactive content delivery. This of course means that that initially there will be abuses. Think "skip intro" and you'll know what I mean. (I still get backlash from people who think of Flash as an inconvenience, having to download a plug-in to see an intro that dumps you into an HTML page).

    But embedding video has so many advantages that it's hard to ignore the benefits. The biggest advantage I see so far is reducing the plugin to just Flash. Before MX - I was designing with F5 and QT popups. How inconvenient for the viewer if they had niether.

    I'm trying to push the limits of what I can do effectively in Flash 6, and I think many other designers will be doing the same. We could all benefit from some form of codec and method comparison that helps to reduce the abuse factor - making Flash look like a bad alternative to "real" video.

    I'm quite surprised to find so little information on Macromedia's site in regards to video. I think they have spent most of their energy on the MX server, and not so much on the http methods. I guess we're on our own. So, count me in too. I should be able to put up some server space to store some of the source examples and I can help with the scripting methods moderation.

    5G

  20. #20
    Wildform Moderator
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    My feeling is that the best way for someone to see the quality and ease of implementation with our software (or any software for that matter) is to test it for themselves by downloading one of our free demos and encoding their own video, with their own settings that have been set with their own implementation needs in mind. This way a potential user can make up their own mind about whether a solution works for them.
    Our demos are fully functioning (except for a watermark placed in the output) and potential customers can test out all the outputs and functionality for free.
    And if you are looking for information, you are also welcome to come our website where we have posted many FAQs, tutorials and sample FLAs relating to video. These include information on creating players, jukeboxes, rich media email and advertising, CDs, and many other subjects, and they are all available free of charge to everyone.
    jb
    http://www.wildform.com

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