Anyone got a skillset this wide??

[Philicom]

Tpnovak,

Fact: This is boardroom material!
Fact: It is of interest to the Flash Community!
Fact: The Flash Community are the ones interested in your current career oportunities!

Maybe longy shouldn't of posted the email although it answers many of our questions and thoughts in fact the email reply cleared up many questions and thoughts I had of my own.

Everyone,

I have one question though for the board: Do alot of you agree, that now days your only make it in newmedia if you
are jack of all trades, or are there some of you developers out ther that specialise in only a few languages/technologies for your media house or are the specialists dying out and the jack of all trades averaging at 30 things taking over?

I would like to hear people views on this.

[l0ungeb0y]

Originally posted by UnderTheSun
That's all really good skills on that set, takes long time to level up and gain experience on,

but if someone has it wouldn't he/she be real rich?

Not necessarily.
Riches come after the pain and labor of the invention
and only if someone is willing to buy into to the idea or the inventor is able to bring it to market on their own.

Many brilliant people don't want to wing it on their own.
Many who do wing it take a Koosh job because they get tired and decide to pack it up.

I'm still out there, on my own and making it.
Hell, I get top level job offers from Development Lead to CTO opps atleast once per month, last week I got a call from a certain Online Media Content Distributor in Cupertino to head up their Application Interface Development. Catch was, it was fulltime. I turned it down flat. It was hard, because I am so damn close to my own launch, but so damn tired of the last 3 years of struggle to get to where I am at. But, so close I can taste it, and that keeps me moving. But do I have even an AA? Hell, I only have a GED. I could have gone to art school on a fullride scholarship for fine art, but choose to contract for Atari instead. I could have stayed in the CS program in State College, but dropped. I could have worked for Microsoft, but didn't like their Employee IP agreements. I could have done many things, but have always chose to do what feels right, regardless of the sacrifice.

Many don't even want to go there.

[cprhosting]

I have to agree with longy et al. on this one. Why would anyone who has the extensive skill set required of 2advanced even take a the time to read a job spec with such limitations on the applicant. Perhaps they already know who they're going to hire for the position and posted it publicly to adhere to their bosses. Anyone with natural abilities may not posses the specifics skills listed here, but can acquire them (and hundreds of others) much faster than a textbook candidate.

To respond to Philicom, I am a jack(queline) of all trades and I find it difficult to secure jobs because of the paper requirements of ads such as 2advanced. And this is not because I do not posses the experience, know-how, or abilities of the ads. It rarely bothers me though, because they always end up callng someone like me, when the textbook applicant they hired can't find a solution in their course notes :-)


CPR Hosting - Giving Life to the Web
http://www.cprhosting.com

[UnderTheSun]

well then, maybe 2a's not looking for employees at the moment

or they have this situation where an exception for geniuses.. so they put this req

[l0ungeb0y]

Originally posted by UnderTheSun
well then, maybe 2a's not looking for employees at the moment

or they have this situation where an exception for geniuses.. so they put this req

No, they are looking and seriously looking.
My take is that they lost a valuable player and have a large hole to fill. Lots of schooling and having all the skills mentioned do not make anyone a genious, rather they just make you educated. Genious and creativity can never be taught, bought or learned. Those are things you either have or you don't period.

Take for instance a friend of mine, he was a real big inspiration to me and was influential in me getting into programming to begin with while I was in my early 20's.
He programs AI's. He learned on his own, never went to college and only had a 10 year old "luggable" as his computer, but he spent 6 years writing an AI on that ancient piece of crap computer.
2 years ago, my phone rang, I picked up, it clicked and made whirring noises then died. I hung up and picked up again, the phone was dead. I was searching for the 1-800 number for USwest when my phone rang, it was DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency), calling to ask about my friend as they were screening him for a job.
He got the job, he now sits in a secured Gov't installation "trying" to talk to and teach an AI that was first created in the 1970's by the US Gov't.
Now that guy, he's a genious. But no chance would 2advanced even consider him

[TianaKaeSha]

I could have sworn the ad said "or work placed experience" IE.. if you have been doing it for 10 years, are absolutely brilliant... do all they ask... a piece of paper would not rule you out... it would just perhaps give you a boost...

I say well done 2A for knowing what you want and writing out every particular thing a person is required to do. I was hired to do pixel art for a UI. They did not know what they wanted when they hired me... they just made sure I could prove I was artistic. Lucky for me I learn HTML really quickly... and flash... and everything else they have gotten me to do that was not in the job spec.

The fact of the matter is that there ARE people out there that have all of those skills, and more. They exist... are great at what they do and are probably stuck in some stoopid job right now wasting their talents because the job market is so bad.

One minute people are complaining that 12 year olds are taking their jobs. The next they are complaining that employers are asking too much... why not stop complaining and learn another coding language?

Tiana

[miyagiofflash]

my skillset is about |--this--| wide......

[l0ungeb0y]

Tiana, I agree it is funny to see people *****ing about their reqs. Though I dissent upon their attitude of 100% skill for everything listed or not at all, I also acknowledge that their request is not unreasonable.
I am however not qualified, as I have not worked with C#, ASP or IIS and only have 9 years industry experience.

But, I'm not interested in their position.
What I dissent about is their stringent demeanor in the ad.
To me, if you are a seasoned and expressive developer who can demonstrate real value, I'll ignore some flaws such as lack of a particular language because I know and trust you can pick it up. I'd rather work with the ace who can wing it and pick it up as he goes than the pud who knows it but does it oh so average.

By being so stringent, they risk losing the chance to even meet the ace and get a room full of puds in line for interviews.

IMHO, they'd be better to reword their ad and say "If you can meet most if not all of these requirements, we'd love to hear from you" instead of "Look, 100% or not at all buddy"

[[-S|NiStEr_MiNd-]]

I realize the job ad asks for a lot, but I really don't think it's anything to argue over. So they want someone with a lot of skill, big deal... I have about half of those skills along with being a design manager. I'm sure they'd consider others that didn't meet the exact requirements. They put down what they were looking for. Nothing is forever carved in stone.

To be honest I'd gladly work there and i'm sure they do pay fairly well. I'm not trying to offend anyone here but it seems that people are complaining because they don't have those skills, not because it's impossible to have them.

It's a valid job ad with a well established company. I'm sure they'll find someone...

[TianaKaeSha]

Originally posted by [-S|NiStEr_MiNd-]

I'm not trying to offend anyone here but it seems that people are complaining because they don't have those skills, not because it's impossible to have them.

That was one of the things I wanted to say but lost in my mind as I rambled

I think that if someone applied who did not have every single skill may be ignored...

on the other hand, I know someone who applied for a senior role the day he left uni. He did not get the job for obvious reasons, but they hired him anyway because he had the guts to stive so high. so sometimes it pays to be arrogant

[mx_kid]

I love the diplomacy of the replys from Tony Novack, a true gentleman! 2A do have high expectations, but so do I - of myself. Sure I have no where near those qualifications for the position, but I plan to work towards them. I am grateful for this post, because now I know what high-end studios are looking for - and its not just being able to draw absract images in photoshop. If 2A advertised for normal qualifications, they'd get normal designers, and be a normal run of the mill studio - they're not.

My 2 cents

[pixelranger]

Let me preface this with the infamous William Shatner line

"Would you people all just get a life"

My take is that they lost a valuable player and have a large hole to fill.

First of all. No valuable individual has left 2A. We are adding to the team. Stop speculating or assuming things please.

But, I'm not interested in their position.
What I dissent about is their stringent demeanor in the ad.

Seriously, think for just ONE second. You are a smart guy. Why do you think the job post is worded like it is? What we DO NOT want is a slew of e-mails from underqualified individuals who will not exponentially add to the strength of the team and the company as a whole. So..in order to deter the "average" developer who isn't really qualified for the job(but who's dream is to work for a place like 2A) you put your wish list up there and you say "Must meet 100%" or something like that. That Job posting is essentially a list of all the skills that our "current" developers have and that we are looking for to take pressure off of our current studs. The desire is that the Qualified apply..and the underqualified do not waste our time.

You may say you dont want to apply...but it comes across sounding like sour grapes when you rant about it for something like 3 posts now. And please stop beating your chest. Its tiring to listen to. I for one am always happy to hear from someone who is kicking ass, is highly motivated, highly skilled and who is making money doing the things they love in these economically challenging times.(It sounds like you are all of these). BUT....stop talking about yourself....makes you seem a little too cocky. Your whole "I couldda done this" rant...made me think about how I coulda skipped your post and saved myself some time. Keep kicking butt..and let me know when you launch your business.

Shane
http://www.pixelranger.com

[l0ungeb0y]

Ya, you're right, it is sour grapes.
Fact is, I've seen many instances of people failing to see potential, usually it's in themselves, but also in others.
I wouldn't have said a word here if I wasn't trying to express a positive point to your benefit.

Because someone with much skill who lacked 2 or 3 items on that list might be very dissuaded from even applying.
And I know I felt that way, I because when I read a req, I see if I can fill it, regardless of whether I'm looking or not. I'll tell you right now, I wouldn't have bothered to apply if I was interested because it stated quite firmly NOT TO BOTHER if you weren't 100% and I'm only around 90%
And that has been my point the entire damn time.
Nice to see it's been missed both time and I get turds tossed at me from the "2advanced crew"

And from the replies given I wouldn't be interested in applying if I was starving to death.
Talk about get a life, two of the 2advanced crew need to come in here and lay a bunch of smack about a damn job posting? Nice.

[pixelranger]

you just dont get it. Sorry to hurt your feelings with just a simple job posting.

[l0ungeb0y]

Originally posted by pixelranger
you just dont get it. Sorry to hurt your feelings with just a simple job posting.

Man, you guys are just too damn much
get over your badselves already.
Cool and over-copied website yes
a company that's worth a damn, I think not.

Caio daddies

[pixelranger]

I know I should probably be a little more tactful here...but hey..what the hell..

And from the replies given I wouldn't be interested in applying if I was starving to death.
Talk about get a life, two of the 2advanced crew need to come in here and lay a bunch of smack about a damn job posting? Nice.

Some people look at the Job Posting and go..ok..this is what I need to learn...others go and get all negative over a few words. Fact of the matter...you are EXACTLY the type of person I personally wouldn't want to work with. You are way too negative. Problem is..you will never admit it. I have a motto in life. "Every day is a Saturday". Sounds to me like "Everyday is a Monday" for you.

Bottom line..we are surviving..and have plenty of work to do. Sounds like you are in the same boat. Hope you continue to kick butt and survive these tough times.

Shane
http://www.pixelranger.com

[Edited by pixelranger on 08-21-2002 at 04:09 AM]

[l0ungeb0y]

Originally posted by pixelranger
I know I should probably be a little more tactful here...but hey..what the hell..

Some people look at the Job Posting and go..ok..this is what I need to learn...others go and get all negative over a few words. Fact of the matter...you are EXACTLY the type of person we DO NOT want to work with. You are way too negative. Problem is..you will never admit it.

Who said I wanted to work? And sure I can be negative, so what? Many people who meet me and work with me think I'm pretty damn inspirational. Though I think I do tend to vent when I'm online, guess I should take up squash or something

And fact is if I wanted the job, I would have just farkin applied, 90%, or 80% regardless, because I can make the deals I want. If I don't have all the "skills" I could care less, I can pick up a language in 2 weeks flat and I look forward to any challenge to expand and if I were to walk on in, I'd have a real good shot at that job.

No, I'm not boohoo or crying about anything, especially your job posting. I was commenting on perceptions, my perception was that skills reqs came across as too damn hardass in the ad, and that's a bringdown. That is also a deterant, namely to someone who you may be interested in applying because they don't like the hardass talk in the ad.
...but that's just my view and hardly worth argueing over.

this on the otherhand...

Bottom line..we are surviving..and have plenty of work to do. Sounds like you are in the same boat. Hope you continue to kick butt and survive these tough times.

Is the best thing I've read from 2advanced tonight.
And amen brother, much work and yes, it's good to be able to ride the waves and be strong right now. And I respect any agency that can make it through right now because many are gone, so kudos or powerbar or whatever

[pixelranger]

Is the best thing I've read from 2advanced tonight.
And amen brother, much work and yes, it's good to be able to ride the waves and be strong right now. And I respect any agency that can make it through right now because many are gone, so kudos or powerbar or whatever

AHAHAHA now THERE is the real l0ungeb0y. Glad to see your real personality come thru. And I totally hear what you are saying about learning what you need..the only point I was trying to make is.....people like you or I would still apply even if we had only 80% or 90%. THOSE are the people I WANT to work with..because we are always striving to get better..and are willing to still say.."Hey...i know I can handle it, I now I can learn more, and I want to learn more"

ok...I will work with you now Oh yeah..i didn't mean to say "WE" back there..since I dont really speak for all of 2A

Also..its all about doing the work that YOU want to do. Personally I love working at 2A. I wanted to work with Eric 3 years ago...so what did I do..worked my nutz off to get to where I am..and have been working with him for almost 2 years now. So I hear you about turning down jobs and stuff to do the things you want to do


Shane
http://www.pixelranger

P.S. Pick up raquetball and I will challenge you Me and my buddy Doug (www.douglasarthur.com) are about to pick it up again and play a couple of times a week.

[l0ungeb0y]

Ya, you do have a good point.
I don't do the long term hiring thing, I just bring in some guns and if they can't deal, I toss em and get a new one.
Cold and mean, but it works for me.

But, yes... I'm thinking back and at some of the yahoos I've dealt with... and I like your take. Place the bar high and see who dares the jump.

I'll be keeping that in mind... and make good use of it in the future.

Thanks

[gecko2]

Tony, thanks for the email. I'll be there for my interview as discussed next Monday.
[Edited by gecko2 on 08-21-2002 at 09:16 AM]